There are NO viruses for OS X, and it's not just a matter of somebody getting around to writing them. The only reason that you would run anti virus software on a mac is to prevent you from spreading known viruses to other operating systems (Windows).

There are many reasons why somebody would want to write a virus. Social deviants can be found in all aspects of life. I doubt very much that anybody gets paid to write a virus.

There are indeed virus's out there for OSX as well as all other OS's. They just don't get spread as easily because of the relativley small number of Mac's out there.

A virus writer wants to have the biggest impact he can and because PC's are the dominant platform they are chosen for such attacks. Mac's escape unscathed only because they not the popular platform. Apples recent ad campaign wants you to believe that a Mac is somehow imune to virus's and other attacks when really the opposite is true. Windows has been attacked for so long that many of it's security issues have been corrected or at least recognized. The Mac OS's on the other hand have really never been tested. BTW the Mac OS's are nothing more than Unix w/ a GUI.

As to why people write virus's, to be destructive of course. Just like the vandals who write graffitti or start fires or whatever they want there work noticed so they pick something big enough to be noticed. Attacking Mac's will get you about as much attention as lighting matches and calling yourself an arsonist.

here's a few.........OSX/Leap-A, OSX/Oompa-A those where found back in Feb. 2006

another one...........OSX/Inqtana-A thats one was from 2005

Big_D said.........

Attacking Mac's will get you about as much attention as lighting matches and calling yourself an arsonist.

That's funny I don't care who you are.....

Peace........Scoobie

Scoobie wrote: here's a few.........OSX/Leap-A, OSX/Oompa-A those where found back in Feb. 2006

This is the same item, with different names. At best you could call it a trojan that does nothing. Proof of concept, perhaps. More like a malicious application. You had to download it, uncompress it, and install it (which requires adim access and a password). This type of program can be easily written for any unix based OS.

Scoobie wrote: another one...........OSX/Inqtana-A thats one was from 2005

A blue tooth proof of concept worm that was never found in the wild.

With all due respect Big_D, can you provide a sample of just one virus for OSX?

I'm sick of this. Show us one freaking virus for Mac OSX that is out there or has been out there infecting machines that I need to run anti virus software so that I don't get infected! It does not exist. Quit making shit up!

VonRocK wrote: [quote=Scoobie]here's a few.........OSX/Leap-A, OSX/Oompa-A those where found back in Feb. 2006

This is the same item, with different names. At best you could call it a trojan that does nothing. Proof of concept, perhaps. More like a malicious application. You had to download it, uncompress it, and install it (which requires adim access and a password). This type of program can be easily written for any unix based OS.

Scoobie wrote: another one...........OSX/Inqtana-A thats one was from 2005

A blue tooth proof of concept worm that was never found in the wild.

With all due respect Big_D, can you provide a sample of just one virus for OSX?

I'm sick of this. Show us one freaking virus for Mac OSX that is out there or has been out there infecting machines that I need to run anti virus software so that I don't get infected! It does not exist. Quit making shit up!

Well with all due respect Scoobie provided several examples. If your perception of them is that they are not really viruses because they don't cause real harm so be it but they do exist. "Proof of concept" as you call it is exactly that and concept has a way of becoming reality.

The Leap.A (aka Oompa-Loompa) infects applications in Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger) running on PowerPC processors. Upon infection, Leap.A (aka Oompa-Loompa) sends itself to the infected user's contacts via iChat.

Sure sounds like a virus to me and it doesn't require you to "download it, uncompress it, and install it " as you claim. Here's the link on it
http://antivirus.about.com/od/macintoshresource/p/oompa.htm
Now who's "making shit up"?

Would you still call it "Proof of concept" if it were a PC running Windows? I doubt it.

Exactly what is it your sick of? I know I'm sick of the Apple ads that perpetuate PC/MAC stereotypes from the 80's? Do you believe those ads?

The point of my original post was to show that all platforms are vulnerable to attack, not to debate viral symantecs. Windows is attacked because it is the Big Dog like it or not.

I happen to like all kinds of computers but I'm not foolish enough to think that any of them are invulnerable. You shouldn't either.

Bravo! End of story...

You are correct. I am wrong. I apologize for my incessant mac ranting. I just wanted to justify spending a boatload more money for such a virused piece of junk operating system running on hardware that I could have got at half the price (not to mention all the FREE(ahem) software!), so I was trying to take it out on you.

I realize the error of my ways and will be switching back to windows right away. I can hardly wait to try out VISTA!

Macs are way more expensive. They have NO software. THEY GET HACKED ALL THE TIME!!!! and generally just suck. Nothing just works.

Remember, if you want to do any audio recording at all, DON'T get a mac.

Oh, yeah, and to answer the original question. YES! THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF VIRUSES FOR THE MAC. I can only find one trojan that couldnt actually do anything, but that's close enough. Everbody else keeps warning me about them all. SO after a year of running this mac without a fire wall or antivirus software, I figure I'd better get smart and ace this machine for a really secure virus free operating system like Windows Vista.

Funny VonRocK, I like it ! :lol:

I still don't think you get the gist of what I'm saying. This IS NOT an attack on MAC's, I happen to like them very much! They do many things very well (except gaming) and OSX is a very stable and secure OS. XP is also a very good OS but it gets a bad rap because every hacker and virus writer on the planet tries to attack it. If Apple was on top it would it would be the OS everyone was gunning for. BTW I wouldn't touch Vista with a 10 foot pole either.

My point was never to put down Mac's, it was to get you and others who use Macs to realize they are not invulnerable. Just because the threat is small doesn't mean it's non existent. Mac's have been attacked in the past and will be again in the future. If some @#$%^*& decides he hates Macs and puts a virus out there and you lose all of your music or whatever, how will you feel then? I hope you backup because Macs are not imunne to failure either. I personally don't put my DAW's on the internet but that's just me.

I just hope you to take off the Rose colored glasses and realize NOTHING is 100% safe. Not even a MAC

You are using the argument that because Macs are a small market share, virus writers don't write viruses for them, I know. I've heard it all before.

That is a really old argument. Doesnt matter though. One day a virus writer will get around to bother writing a virus for the mac and I'll loose all my data, and then I'll realize that you are right. But I digress. You have allready pointed out SEVERAL viri for the mac.

All sarcasm aside, Backing up critical data is essential. Anybody, let alone a proffessional, would an absolute fool not to, regardless of hardware, or OS.

True, but I won't be buying any virus software until the the virii show up in the eco-system.

The last time I had virus protection on my Mac was 95', 96'.

8)

VonRocK wrote: You are correct. I am wrong. I apologize for my incessant mac ranting. I just wanted to justify spending a boatload more money for such a virused piece of junk operating system running on hardware that I could have got at half the price (not to mention all the FREE(ahem) software!), so I was trying to take it out on you.

I realize the error of my ways and will be switching back to windows right away. I can hardly wait to try out VISTA!

Macs are way more expensive. They have NO software. THEY GET HACKED ALL THE TIME!!!! and generally just suck. Nothing just works.

Remember, if you want to do any audio recording at all, DON'T get a mac.

Oh, yeah, and to answer the original question. YES! THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF VIRUSES FOR THE MAC. I can only find one trojan that couldnt actually do anything, but that's close enough. Everbody else keeps warning me about them all. SO after a year of running this mac without a fire wall or antivirus software, I figure I'd better get smart and ace this machine for a really secure virus free operating system like Windows Vista.

I am also a Mac user since May of 2006. I would like to say thanks to Vonrock for opening my eyes so that I can now see the errors of my ways. I'm going to take this iMac to the dumpster immediately after this message. Damn it's convienent all-in-one design and light weight that makes it to where I only have to make one trip down the 3 flights of stairs and 100 feet from my apartment to the dumpster. Thanks again Vonrock, you are a lifesaver!

If you didn't like the OS you could have easily made it a Linux machine.
http://penguinppc.org/

8-) :P 8)

Kind of funny...When is the last time you've seen a large corporation with tons of important data keeping it on an Apple computer? or Apple Server. Not as much as a Windows Server or Unix based system....

I think the first effective worms will be written when a company stores millions of people's credit card information on an Apple server, and not the layout for the next day's paper...

I think the first effective worms will be written when a company stores millions of people's credit card information on an Apple server, and not the layout for the next day's paper...

...or the next hit cd, or next month's issue of whatever magazine, or the next major movie.

Granted, there are a lot more PC's in media these days but Mac still has a stronghold in the industry for a reason. One may be the one that you suggested. Why would anyone subject their 6 hour, 6 day or 6 month project to the possiblity of viruses or trojans?

There aren't many or any for that matter, viruses targeting unix based systems that I know of. Wait, OSX is unix based isn't it?

yzfwv wrote: Kind of funny...When is the last time you've seen a large corporation with tons of important data keeping it on an Apple computer? or Apple Server. Not as much as a Windows Server or Unix based system....

I think the first effective worms will be written when a company stores millions of people's credit card information on an Apple server, and not the layout for the next day's paper...

Until 1998 Adobe was all Mac, used to go to my wife's office and marvel at all the Macs.

8)

Gee, there are lots of major universities and corporations that do. The only reason the government doesn't is that they are about 20 years behind.

My father was an architect for FAA facilities, in which they were installing Pentiums(!) just a few years ago. Their system is old and antiquated.

I personally could care less, but I heard a very savvy Security Guru talking about Mac's. It was Marc Maiffret of eEye Digital Security. This guy knows his stuff. He is a security innovator, but does not make any Mac software, so he has nothing to gain by fudging the truth for sales purposes.

He indicated that Mac's are indeed as vunerable as any OS, but as we know, no one will waste 3 weeks writing spyware for a Mac that MIGHT generate 1/100th the revenue that one would get from working for 3 weeks on XP/Vista spyware. 3 Weeks of work for $100, or 3 weeks of work for $100,000? Not a hard choice to make in my eyes.

Mac IS currently secure, but by obscurity. They have ridden on this concept for as long as I can remember (and they have never gone above 5% marketshare in that same timeframe). They can claim "Superior Security" because that is the currently the case.

Marc Maiffret clearly stated that if Mac wants to continue their title as "Most Secure OS", then they need to start addressing these issues NOW, so when they FINALLY get to a good portion of the marketshare, they really WILL be "The Most Secure OS". If they rely on security by obscurity, AND get a good portion of the Marketshare, it will spell Virus City for Macs...

Marc has been a hacker since his early days, and was actually raided by the FBI back in high-school. He is a "Hackers' Hacker" not some Microsoft wanker. He speaks the truth from a VERY deep background of hacking al forms of OS's.

Macs ARE secure - by obscurity. How long this will last once Macs get 10% marketshare is questionable.

Who cares? I run 5 XP Machines, and Viruses are not a problem for me. I got bit back in the old days when I didn't know what I was doing (DL'ing stuff I should NOT have been DL'ing, etc), and I have gotten Spyware once or twice in 4 years. It is all in your surfing/downloading habits more than your machine and how many A/V programs you run.

:cool:

Security via obscurity is a Myth.

Somebody once told me about Santa Clause. I believed them.

I also believe your signature. At least you got something right in your post!

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://prescription…"]Read This[/]="http://prescription…"]Read This[/]

:roll:

At least read the article Randy. It's a short read.

http://prescriptionmac.com/archives/category/architechture/

I skimmed over it. But I believe someone like Marc Maiffret WAY before I believe a Mac based article. Do some research on Marc Maiffret, and check out his credentials (he is big time in the corporate Security sector including the US DoD - That is as "BIG TIME" as you can get)... He speaks deep "Real-World" knowledge on ALL platforms - not just PC...

And he DOES like Mac's, he just tells it like it is (all code has bugs). And I believe him. Don't worry, Mac's will be secure as ever as long as they stay in the 5% or less marketshare...

I'm fine with dirt-cheap PC Hardware (DIY) and incredible Overclocking performance on my systems. Mac's are perfect for some - not for me.

Do what makes you happy, and I'll be happy doing what makes me happy :p Then everyone is happy!

Rock On

:cool:

You didn't read it. Otherwise you would really understand why Unix based platforms are virus free. That is not to say they have no vulnerabities. They do. Apple recognizes that and releases security patches accordingly. Putting on blinders because of some preconcieved ideal of whats good and bad is idiotic. Read the article and it's referrences.

I agree that you should do what you like. I use both platforms and enjoy both mac and windows for different reasons. For security mac IS superior. It just is.

The fact that you can do a fresh install of windows and before you even finish updating you can acquire a virus puts me off. It has happened to me on two seperate occasions with legal versions of windows 2000 and XP while updating.

Fortunately the fix had already been released but until my comp completed installing the "malicious software removal" I had to deal with pop ups of "you're computer may be at risk. Click here to run'bla di bla'". A true pain in the but.

OS X will not allow such a thing to occur. Period. Unless of course you do something stupid like enter a password to install a software that you didn't intentionally download.

I did skim over it, but just as I didn't scour every word, you obviously don't think Marc Maiffret knows anything at all ;)

He is handling security for the US Department of Defense amung other high-profile clients. He also knows Unix well (way better than you or I), and still mentioned that Apple's code is still just as "sloppy" as MS (they make simular mistakes), and they COULD EASILY be targets once there is a way to monetize Mac Infections (there is currently no monetary incentive for this with less than 5% marketshare). He was not dancing around the issue whatsoever (he was very direct about this fact). Now, how code could exploit Unix I don't know, but he knows about 1,000 times more than you and me combined :) . He has been hacking into systems of all kinds for a few decades until the FBI busted him IIRC. How many systems have you successfully hacked into? Who do you manage security for? I'd say he knows more than both of us...

I'll trust his real-world experience with Unix before I put on the "Mac is 100% Secure" blinders. But truth is, you ARE 100% Secure on a Mac today. The future will be a very different place if Apple does not begin to clean up their coding mistakes (that is if they remain "complacent" in their coding according to Mr Maiffret). I sincerely believe he would not risk his reputation spewing utter nonsense...

PS - The Windows SP2 Firewall (or being behind a NAT router) is all you need to avoid those Worms (Probably Sasser or Blaster) you got in the old days. My install disc is actually 95% current with updates the instant my install finishes ;)

Let's agree to wait until Mac's really ARE a target. Neither of us has a solid debate until Mac's are scrutenized as ruthlessly as PC's with a big cash incentive knocking on the door...

:cool:

Marc Maifrett works for eEye who make security products for Windows. Hmmmm....no bias there.

"But the business of searching for and publicizing security holes while at the same time selling the solutions is a tricky and controversial business, not unlike the model pursued by anti-virus companies. We note, for example, that eEye has yet to publicize an IIS hole that its SecureIIS product won't defeat. Their discoveries inevitably support the claim that SecureIIS is a very wise investment."

He is not selling his products to Mac based networks ;) . And his product is free for home PC users.

He has no need to make Mac's seem like they need his security products. And like I said - he mentioned he likes Mac's and is very familiar with Unix. He was careful to maintain that Mac's currently ARE secure - and I agree (again - not selling his product). But he specifically stated that Apple does have major issues with coding - issues on par with MS. These have not been exploitable yet (again - he is not selling his product here by any means), but mentioned that these coding issues could easily become issues if the right minds come together and hammer away for God knows how long. That is just not going to happen without a monetary incentive (and a very big one at that). That reward comes with more marketshare (lots more marletshare).

Sadly (again, think market share ;) ), there are probably more infected Windows machines on a single mainstream Bot Net than the entire Mac population. Why bother with Mac when Windows is literally where all of the cash is. And, TBH, this is easily avoidable on the Windows side by using sensible surfing habits (with 20 times more Windows users, they certainy get their fair share of idiot users that click "OK" on everything, D/L E-Mail attachments w/o knowing what they are, and D/L "Freeware" that is riddled with Spyware and Viri). Most savvy Windows users don't even run A/V on their primary Internet machines. My point? PC Security is all in your surfing habits, and knowing what not to do. The Mac OS essentially does all of this for the less advanced user by way of asking "is this OK?". And less advanced Mac users are still only as secure as their habits here, too...

Kind of like how the Mac commercial makes fun of Vista's UAC pop-up windows (but Mac's essentially do the same thing ;) ). I LOL'd at the "pot calling the kettle" aspect on that one :P

:cool:

Are you Mark Maiffret?

So, is this is the part where we all wait around a couple of years and see if you get to say, "I told you so"?

It is not going to happen. I'm sure that you'll blame lack of cash incentive and small market share for the sky not falling on mac users two years from now also.

Mark caused the USAF to shut down by claiming the sky was falling before.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/07/20/internet_survives_code_red/

He also must give out free BJs the way you talk about him. I don't doubt his skills and knowledge whatsoever. I've just been listening to all this Fear, Uncertainty, and Death talk ever since I made the switch to the mac over a year ago.

I'm not going to stop using my (in my opinion) superior OS because you said that some guy said that Macs MAY be in for some trouble sometime in the future. The sky is NOT falling dude.

Now please go back to isolating yourself from the real world and run your firewalls and antivirus software and adware and spyware cleaning solutions, while I safely surf for porn with my DAW in between mixing sessions. I'll let you know if I pick up a virus.

:roll:

haha vonrock, so funny and so true.

VonRocK wrote: Are you Mark Maiffret?

So, is this is the part where we all wait around a couple of years and see if you get to say, "I told you so"?

It is not going to happen. I'm sure that you'll blame lack of cash incentive and small market share for the sky not falling on mac users two years from now also.

Mark caused the USAF to shut down by claiming the sky was falling before.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/07/20/internet_survives_code_red/

He also must give out free BJs the way you talk about him. I don't doubt his skills and knowledge whatsoever. I've just been listening to all this Fear, Uncertainty, and Death talk ever since I made the switch to the mac over a year ago.

I'm not going to stop using my (in my opinion) superior OS because you said that some guy said that Macs MAY be in for some trouble sometime in the future. The sky is NOT falling dude.

Now please go back to isolating yourself from the real world and run your firewalls and antivirus software and adware and spyware cleaning solutions, while I safely surf for porn with my DAW in between mixing sessions. I'll let you know if I pick up a virus.

:roll:

What's funny though is everyone complains about Vista being so shitty. I've been running ultimate on one of my PC's a with no virus protection or spyware/adware removal and haven't gotten anything that has caused any adverse affects since installation in January. I've even ran XP without getting anything on it for several months before finally putting virus proctection software on it. Home PC's have a larger share of the market and usually the ones riddled with viruses are the ones that have the people going and surfing at places that they shouldn't be.

Village Idiot makes some fine points in line with what I posted about XP Security. If you don't D/L pirated software and "Freeware", don't D/L unknown E-Mail attachments, and stay up to date - you will be fine on XP w/o a peep of A/V software running.

VonRocK - No I'm not Mark, but I DO respect people who tell it like it is, and have the experience to back it up. He is obviously familiar with OSX's code. More so than you or I.

And I never said the Sky is Falling, just that the beloved Mac platform does have significant coding errors in line with Microsoft. I was not suggesting that anyone come to the cheap + powerful PC side by any means. Just as I have no plans on switching to an expensive Mac. Why change what ain't broke? Maybe you have had issues with Windows, but not I :) . All 3 of my XP DAW's run 32 Sample Buffers with RME hardware, and are as stable as the Sun (and 2 of them are online)... And they overclock like no-one's business...

:cool:

I don't have a problem with windows. I have a problem with misinformation being spread as truths.

The only people that seem to tell me how crappy, expensive, and vulnerable to viruses that my mac is, are windows users.

Why is that?

Posting your comments about how crappy OS X is coded and that it is just a matter of "the right minds (to) come together" before this bad coding becomes an issue.. is that not claiming the sky is falling?

I guess it's just saying the sky MAY fall on you. Well, you have been living with your head in the clouds for a long time now, so I don't blame you.

Obviously, to an extent your comment is true. NO OS is invulnerable. Nothing is. Apple also does regular security updates.

However, lets get back on topic. MAC VIRUSES.

There are NONE. ZIPPO. NIL.

Many Windows users and some industry 'experts' (experts get paid for their opinions) will tell you that it is only a matter of time. The entire mac community is NOT holding their collective breath.

There are a number of companies flogging anti virus software for macs. It's like selling ice to Eskimos. I'm sure they love it when "experts" fill the market place with fear. As you have all just seen, that fear and misinformation spreads across the internet through forums and well meaning people at a quicker rate than it ever has before. Repeating and perhaps paraphrasing a bit much some 'expert's' ramblings. FUD. Read about FUD [[url=http://[/URL]="http://en.wikipedia…"]here[/]="http://en.wikipedia…"]here[/].

There are NO viruses for macs. Macs have between 6 and 15 percent of market share. Yet there are no viri for the mac. You would expect between 5 and 15 percent. Or maybe even 1% (that would be over 1400). Or even just ONE virus! So your security via obscurity argument is flawed.

You say there is no monetary incentive? I beg to differ. The guy who writes the first successful mac virus, especially after those commercials (and guys like me!) will be famous beyond his wildest dreams. This would no doubt open up a great potential for future monetary gain.

I believe that your five PC's work for you. I'm not here bashing microsoft, nor you. A windows box can record music flawlessly. It's just that there are NO viruses for Mac OSX, and I'm tired of hearing about how I'll be eating crow any day now.

I'm having roast beef for supper.

Randyman... wrote: He is not selling his products to Mac based networks ;) He has no need to make Mac's seem like they need his security products.

If Marc, as a security EXPERT, stated that macs are at a significantly lower risk of being infected by a virus than a windows machine (which is the obvious truth), more people may be inclined to buy an Apple Mac. He looses one potential customer in every new mac purchase.

So, yes, he does have a need to make Mac's seem like they need some sort of security products. He would not be a very good business man otherwise.

VonRocK wrote:
Remember, if you want to do any audio recording at all, DON'T get a mac.

You're a fool.

Read the whole thread, (and note that some people have deleted their ridiculous posts) and then come back here and call me a fool.

It's called sarcasm. It was the only way that the thread would die. Otherwise, we'd have windows only users making the same age old false statements about how shitty apple computers are over and over and over and over and over again, without having ANY first hand knowledge of how much better OSX is over Windows operating systems.

I await your apology.

oops, almost forgot this --> :D