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What's up everyone. I'm new to the recording scene and I'm wanting to learn more about it. I'm currently using Behringer umc202HD interface on windows 10 and for now running a trail for Studio one 2 DAW. I'm basically wanting to learn more on how to record metal music is what I'm into. And I'm wanting to know what is a good daw for recording mixing and Mastering.

Comments

DonnyThompson Fri, 07/01/2016 - 15:42

Any modern DAW will suffice.

But, before you learn how to mix for a specific genre, you need to learn your DAW's functions - along with fundamental recording methods - inside and out.
Once you gain the knowledge and experience of these things, you can record and mix any style you want, because all the information you gain applies to every style of music.

Learn your DAW so that you know where every command is and exactly what it does.
Learn proper gain staging
Learn proper cabling
Learn mic types and miking applications
Learn routing and bussing
Learn the other fundamental tools like EQ and Gain Reduction

And then...

Practice, practice, practice.

No one here, not even the pro's among us, sat down for their first time and turned out a press quality recording overnight. It's no different than any other craft. It takes time and experience, and you can't rush that.

You'll make mistakes, some small, some huge. Learn from all of them, commit them to memory.

If you have specific questions, feel free to ask them here - we're glad to help, that's what we're here for - but you have to do your own legwork, too; you have to educate yourself. No one here has the time to teach you from square one.

Youtube will be very helpful to you for the basics.

Welcome to RO. ;)

-d.

Sean G Fri, 07/01/2016 - 22:53

Hi Josem

Welcome to RO. I would re-inforce what DonnyThompson says, really get to know your DAW and the basics that he has listed.

Studio One is a good DAW to start out with, and as Donny suggests, youtube is a really good platform for tutorials on Studio One and the basics.

You may want to check out these dedicated Studio One youtube channels if you haven't already done so.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7WUeriUrgp0QI9R61RWz0w

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK0pITrfzEC36x6ttyaXUXA

You may also want to check out Glenn Fricker's Spectre Sound Studios youtube channel also https://www.youtube.com/user/SpectreSoundStudios/about.

Glenn has a passion for metal and has some informative videos which can show you a thing or two about recording and the basics, whilst having a laugh along the way.

He looks like an evil bad dude in his pic on his home page but don't let that fool you. ;)

Keep in mind that Recording.Org being a problem based learning forum is a useful resource of information as well, members are only too happy to give you advice on specifics along the way.

You can use the search menu at the top right hand corner and tap into an archive of intelligent and well-informed threads from the past 15 years on a wide range of audio related and recording topics that will have answers to just about any question you can ask.

If you don't find what you are looking for, just ask by posting a thread.

Good Luck (y)

- Sean.

pcrecord Mon, 07/04/2016 - 04:53

The behringer umc202hd is said to have very workable latencies.. I wouldn't worry about it for now..

To me good recordings are made while using or controling; the instrument and performance, the room, the mic(s) and placement, cables, preamps, converter.
But once you know all the tricks and technics, the most important thing is a well trained set of ears. If you can recongnise when it sound good or not, you are half way there.

Josem, did you record some stuff already ? (care to share ? )

Do you already have some mics ? how's your room, what monitors do you have ?

Josem Thu, 07/14/2016 - 18:30

So I been recording guitars and bass. I do 2 rhythm guitars and 2 lead guitars and 1 track for bass. I did notice when I recorded all the tracks I can here lead guitar and bass on the rhythm guitar track. I know I shit off the recording for other channels and used 1. My question is do I need to put None on the other input tracks cause I leave them in input 2.

DonnyThompson Sun, 07/17/2016 - 08:07

You can ulpoad an MP3 by clicking on the "upload a file" button on the bottom right, just to the right of the "post reply" button. This will open a window that allows you to select the MP3 from your computer. Depending on the file size and your connection speed it may take a few minutes.
RO currently supports MP3 uploads up to 320kbps in quality. It does not support .wav files at this time.

-d.

Josem Mon, 07/18/2016 - 03:51

Can a simple cable be ruining my recordings.??I had to go back to the beginning when I first got my interface. I notice in the beginning that my vocal sounded bad I had to raise it up all the way to get sound but at the same time it made a lot of hissing noise in the background. I was using a xlr to headphone jack with quater inch adapter. I fixed that by replacing it with a xlr to xlr now the vocals sound crisp perfect.... my question is I'm I missing something recording guitars? I have my guitar plugged in directly to the interface

Sean G Mon, 07/18/2016 - 04:16

yes, a good cable can mean a world of difference. Its always the first place you should look when trouble-shooting faults.

As for the guitar...

Do you own an amp?...if so, you can mic the amp cabinet...then run the mic into your interface like you would with a vocal track.

What mic are you using?

You can use a dynamic or a condenser mic for this and it will give you a more typically raw sound compared to going direct into your interface.

If you don't own an amp, try looking at the different amp sim vst plug-ins that will simulate one...if you are using Studio One 3, there is one called Ampire that comes as a native to SO that you could use...you can choose the type of head and type of cab, even engage stomp pedals as well to mix it up a little.

Another one that come to mind is Amplitube.

There are literally heaps and heaps of vst amp sims out there, just try googling "free guitar vst plug-in" or "free guitar amp vst" and they will pop up on a google search.

Sean G Mon, 07/18/2016 - 06:27

Sounds like you do not have correct gain staging between your guitar and the preamps in your interface.

Out of curiosity...what interface are you using?

Gain is control over the level coming into your interface, whereas your interface will also have a main or master which controls the level going out of your interface.

Think of gain as your sensitivity. Need a mic to be more sensitive?...then turn the gain up.

Think of gain staging as allowing the signal to be at its optimum at every stage of the chain, not too low but not peaking or clipping either.
Just like the porridge in Goldilocks & The Three Bears...you want it 'just right'.

If your interface allows you to select mic / instrument via a switch, make sure you have this selected to instrument.

Start with having your guitar set on about 1/3 volume, with your gain for the particular channel you are running through at your interface set to zero and your volume fader in your DAW for the particular track you are recording to set at around -20db. Also make sure the master fader in your DAW is also set at around -20db.

Set the main or master on your interface at 60-70%. As a rule of thumb, I don't exceed 75%.

Slowly bring your gain (for your particular channel your guitar is in) on your interface up to the point where it starts to peak or clip at the interface. Then back it off around 10-15% from that point of peaking or clipping.
You do not want to be going in too hot into your interface, or at the track level in your DAW for that matter.
Now slowly bring your guitar volume level up to the point where you see it start to clip at the interface, then back the guitar volume off until you are about 10-15% below where it starts to clip.

Then you can adjust the track in your DAW. Ideally, you want to be tracking between -20db and no more than -12db at peak in your DAW. Again, don't try to push things into the red or above 0db within the DAW as digital distortion will occur and unlike analog distortion it will not add any benefit to tracking that hot.

Ideally as a rule of thumb you want to be at no more than a maximum of 75% gain coming into the interface, but this can vary due to the type of mic or instrument plugged into the interface, and whether this has its own independent amplification and / or volume control.

Remember, gain is control of the signal that is coming into your interface. Your interface will also have a main or master which controls the level going out of your interface to your DAW.
Again, as a rule of thumb, you really do not want that main or master level on your interface to be any higher than a maximum of 75% or clipping can occur and cause all types of ugly harmonic distortion.

Ideally you want to set the master or main and leave it set. Control the level of signal at the interface via the gain controlling the incoming signal.
Once you have your gain structure sorted out, you will find that you will really only be adjusting the gain control to suit when using different imputs, be it either mics or instruments.

Not enough gain early on in the chain can cause issues with increasing the noise floor as it gets increased further and further down the line. As you change gain at one part of the chain it has a butterfly effect as you go down the line. Once you have your gain staging set adjustments in volume can then be made using your fader on the mixing desk, or in the DAW when recording.

Once you understand the how-to of correct gain staging it makes your life so much easier...especially when it comes to recording.

DonnyThompson Mon, 07/18/2016 - 08:17

Sean's post was spot on. Sage advice, read and learn.

On top of this, this jumped out at me:

Josem, post: 439979, member: 49899 wrote: I have a shure sm58 beta A and for amp I have a small line 6 spider. And I used ampire distortion set up

I think part of his problem may just be with that Line 6 Spyder. I've used them, several times, ( never for recording but for rehearsals and stuff) and they don't sound very good at any volume, ( along with being pretty noisy it's also pretty bad tone wise, and the internal effects, while convenient, generally off more noise as well) so perhaps he's trying to turn the amp up in order for it to sound good ( ?) and it's clipping his audio device, and getting a decent tone with that Line 6 is pretty much a futile battle. The problem isn't with the 58, as it can take a ridiculous amount of SPL ( sound pressure level), so it's got to be the gain structure.

At moderate volumes, with your pre set to a moderate level, you shouldn't be clipping... which tells me you that there may be a problem with your audio input device, or that you're still running too hot. Setting up the pad on the input will definitely help curb this, that's what it's there for, but it won't make the tone any better, other than getting rid of input clip distortion.

What is "ampire"? Is this a guitar amp sim you are adding in addition to the guitar amp's signal?

What pre amp / i-o are you using?

Sean G Mon, 07/18/2016 - 14:56

DonnyThompson, post: 439984, member: 46114 wrote: What is "ampire"? Is this a guitar amp sim you are adding in addition to the guitar amp's signal?

Ampire is a guitar amp vst similar to Amplitube Donny, but native to SO. Reading his posts again, the OP alludes to maybe using both together, which I wouldn't recommend.

I think it may be a good idea for the OP to either be using his actual guitar amp, or Ampire, but not both together as this will add to much distortion and make the guitar sound up to shT.

My advice here to the OP...just use one or the other...vst amp sims are better used when you are going clean and going direct into the interface to give you a little variety and ability to sculpt the sound giving you the effect of a mic'd amp.

If you want to get the sounds of the Spyder just mic it clean without using Ampire and sculpt the sound from the controls on the amp itself. You can use a little EQ or compression afterwards via a plug-in once you have things tracked in your DAW to further add to the track.

But personally, I wouldn't use both together.

Josem Tue, 07/19/2016 - 10:49

i might be confusing you guys let me start again.
When I plug my guitar direct into the interface and use ampire there is
a hush noise while playing the instrument and when I palm mute then strings I can here
it too its hard to describe the noise . Then next I did was mic the amp still did the same noise on the recorded track or hearing it thru the headphones and monitors but not thru the amp even tho I know using a line 6 is a no go but its what I have to just figure out the issue. the behringer 202hd has midas preamp.

DogsoverLava Tue, 07/19/2016 - 11:26

Josem, post: 440032, member: 49899 wrote: i might be confusing you guys let me start again.
When I plug my guitar direct into the interface and use ampire there is
a hush noise while playing the instrument and when I palm mute then strings I can here
it too its hard to describe the noise . Then next I did was mic the amp still did the same noise on the recorded track or hearing it thru the headphones and monitors but not thru the amp even tho I know using a line 6 is a no go but its what I have to just figure out the issue. the behringer 202hd has midas preamp.

I assume you mean a "harsh" noise. It would help if you posted an mp3 of the noise. If I understand what you are saying is that direct into your interface using amp sims you hear the noise, and when you mic your amp and go into the interface you hear the noise too -- but not from the amp - that the noise is coming from the interface/DAW...

Check first you are using ASIO drivers -- not windows drivers for your interface, second check for a ground related issue -- try getting a long extension cord and plug your interface into a different oputlet in another oom - try a few different ones - is the noise still there? Others mention gain staging and settings --- I'd check that you don't have the input levels set too high on the interface and also that you don't have the input level too high on the DAW. What are the levels you see in the DAW? Check the master bus levels -- what do you see there? And yes -- cords -- try a different usb cable -- try a different usb port in your computer ---

Josem Wed, 07/20/2016 - 13:44

So I did some testing today with the microphone to amp (line6) and I got a really good sound with minimum white noise. But at the same time I notice that the amp has a high pitch while using distortion so now I atleast know with a better amp that should go away. And I was told today is better if I had a DI going to amp then to interface. Is that true? Would I need it?

DonnyThompson Wed, 07/20/2016 - 15:09

Josem, post: 440077, member: 49899 wrote: And I was told today is better if I had a DI going to amp then to interface. Is that true? Would I need it?

The only advantage to having a DI is that you could split the signal, and send one signal to the amp and another directly to a channel on your interface.
That way, you could have two tracks two work with, one for the amp/mic tone, and the other as a direct "dry" signal from which you could add ITB amp/re-amp simulation later.

Other than that, there's no real advantage to using a DI box in between your guitar and that amp's input.

Josem, post: 440077, member: 49899 wrote: But at the same time I notice that the amp has a high pitch while using distortion so now I atleast know with a better amp that should go away.

The high pitched noise you are hearing is most likely the inherent brittle sonic nature of that amp.
It's a very cheap solid state combo, known for "less-than-good tone", lacking warmth and pleasing harmonics - in short, you're never gonna get the sound of a tube amp out of it.
At some point, you may want to look into a decent guitar preamp, or a foot-pedal system that has better tone, then just run it direct to the input of your audio interface.

While miking a cabinet is always the preferred way, the amp itself, as well as the speaker/cabinet, all have to sound good on their own first.

pcrecord Thu, 09/08/2016 - 08:05

Josem, post: 441116, member: 49899 wrote: So I decided to switch daw and now I have reaper and I actually like. One thing I know I can't get right is my vocals I have screams and growls and clean. When you guys record then do u do it in different tanks of the same track. The volume is so different from cleans to scream.

Some signer will actually like to do multiple takes to keep their energy. If not, you can setup 2 mics with different gains or chart the song and ride the gain yourself..

Josem Mon, 09/19/2016 - 15:56

Well the other day I was told my PC is the reason I get bad recordings on guitars. Vocals are still good. I have a HP 15 and here are the specs. Let me know if it's worth it or I have to get a better pc

General
Product Type
Notebook
Operating System
Windows 10 Home 64-bit Edition
Processor / Chipset
CPU
Intel Pentium N3540 / 2.16 GHz
Max Turbo Speed
2.66 GHz
Number of Cores
Quad-Core
Cache
2 MB
64-bit Computing
Yes
Memory
RAM
4 GB ( 1 x 4 GB )
Technology
DDR3L SDRAM
Speed
1600 MHz
Form Factor
SO-DIMM 204-pin
Storage
Main Storage
500 GB HDD / 5400 rpm
Interface
SATA 3 Gb/s
Optical Drive
DVD±RW (±R DL) / DVD-RAM
Display
Type
15.6"
LCD Backlight Technology
WLED backlight
Resolution
1366 x 768 ( HD )
Widescreen
Yes
Features
HD BrightView
Audio & Video
Graphics Processor
Intel HD Graphics
Camera
Integrated webcam
Resolution
VGA
Sound
Stereo speakers , microphone
Compliant Standards
High Definition Audio
Input
Type
Keyboard, touchpad
Features
Built-in numeric keyboard, multi-touch touchpad
Communications
Wireless
802.11n
Network Interface
10/100 Ethernet
Battery
Technology
3-cell lithium polymer
Capacity
31 Wh
Run Time
Up to 4.5 hours
AC Adapter
Input
AC 120/230 V ( 50/60 Hz )
Output
45 Watt
Connections & Expansion
Interfaces
HDMI Headphone/microphone combo jack USB 2.0 2 x USB 3.0 LAN
Memory Card Reader
Yes ( SD Card )
Software
Software Included
CyberLink PowerDirector, CyberLink Youcam, HP Recovery Manager, HP Support Assistant, HP Games Powered by WildTangent, HP ePrint, Netflix, HP CoolSense, HP Connected Photo, CyberLink PhotoDirector, Snapfish, VUDU, McAfee LiveSafe (30 days trial), EverNote Premium (3 months subscription), CyberLink Power Media Player, TripAdvisor, Dropbox (25 GB Cloud Storage) (free for 6 months), HP 3D DriveGuard 6
Miscellaneous
Color
HP finish in flyer red
Features
Security lock slot (cable lock sold separately), power-on password
Included Accessories
Power adapter
Localization
English / United States
Dimensions & Weight
Width
15.2 in
Depth
10.2 in
Height
0.9 in
Weight
5.05 lbs
Environmental Standards
ENERGY STAR Qualified
Yes
Manufacturer Warranty
Service & Support
1 year warranty
Service & Support Details
Limited warranty - parts and labor - 1 year Technical support - phone consulting - 90 days
Universal Product Identifiers
Brand
HP
Part Number
N5Y05UA#ABA
GTIN
00889894305770

dvdhawk Mon, 09/19/2016 - 18:14

Josem, post: 441398, member: 49899 wrote: Well the other day I was told my PC is the reason I get bad recordings on guitars. Vocals are still good.

I'd also like to know what their reason was for that assessment. I'm of the opinion that if your setup records vocals well, it should be capable of doing guitars just as easily - all other things being equal.

I'm no computer expert, but I don't see any spec there that jumps out at me as a deal-breaker. It's never a bad idea to up the RAM, but you shouldn't run into any problems just doing a few tracks at a time with 4GB. You may, however, want to check your buffer settings. They can make a difference if you're experiencing garbled audio.

When you plug the guitar straight into your little Line 6 Spyder amp and just play for a while, you're sure there's no 'crackling'??
What kind of level do your meters show when you're recording a guitar track? If you're clipping into the red, it's going to make all sorts of unpleasant noises.

As the other fellows have said, gain-structure is key.

Sean G Mon, 09/19/2016 - 19:45

Pull that Line 6 Spyder out of the chain and go direct into the instrument input on the interface...if the crackling stops then you know its in the Spyder.

I'm not a fan of those things...I don't know anyone who is.

As you are getting clean vocals, my money is it could be on the Spyder...maybe an input jack or even the lead itself....otherwise you would be experiencing crackles with the vocal tracks as well.

I would also swap the inputs over on the interface also if it is a dual interface and try tracking through the other input...maybe a dirty or dusty input jack or even a dry socket at the interface.

By dry socket I mean bad solder connector...don't go trying to lubricate the input jack...;)

DonnyThompson Tue, 09/20/2016 - 02:09

The only spec that jumped out at me as being "weak" is your amount of RAM.

4 gig is probably a bare minimum amount of memory for current audio production requirements, but it is doable, as long as you aren't cramming tracks with plug in processors, effects, or virtual samples or amp sims, or trying to record a bunch of tracks (what you've erroneously referred to as "tanks") at one time.

If you are only hearing this "crackling" while recording guitars, as Sean mentioned, take the Line 6 out of the chain, and try recording your guitar directly into your interface using the 1/4" instrument input. Make sure you aren't overdriving the input level of the interface/preamp. If you are still getting the noise, check your guitar jack to make sure it's not loose or short soldered, then check the instrument cable you are using to connect your guitar to the interface, to see if it's perhaps bad. If none of the above works, try using a higher number on your recording buffer settings for your interface. For example, if your recording buffer is currently set for 128, up that number to 256, or even 512. Troubleshooting is all about process of elimination. Start with the most obvious and easiest to check culprits first... Guitar pots and jack, guitar cable, amp, interface... And then check your interface's recording and playback settings.

I don't think the low amount of RAM is your problem, but it might be if you are using too many plug ins on your recorded tracks. If you currently have plug ins or virtual instruments or amp sims loaded on your various tracks, try removing them, and see if that helps.

As a final diagnosis, go into your control panel and make sure that you only have the one audio device you are using for recording enabled for your system. Disable all internal factory-installed sound devices/cards.

-d.

Sean G Tue, 09/20/2016 - 02:23

I was under the impression if you had 8 gig of RAM and were using a 32-bit DAW, your DAW uses half the RAM...that being 4 gig.

Now if you only have 4 gig of RAM and you are using a 32-bit DAW, does that dictate that your DAW is only using 2 gig of RAM ???

Maybe this is where the problem lies ???

Boswell Tue, 09/20/2016 - 04:26

Sean G, post: 441420, member: 49362 wrote: I was under the impression if you had 8 gig of RAM and were using a 32-bit DAW, your DAW uses half the RAM...that being 4 gig.

Now if you only have 4 gig of RAM and you are using a 32-bit DAW, does that dictate that your DAW is only using 2 gig of RAM ???

Maybe this is where the problem lies ???

A PC running in 32-bit mode can only address 4GB. A 32-bit OS such as Windows needs to reserve a chunk of memory for its own use, so the amount left for the user is usually somewhere between 3GB and 3.5GB.

A 64-bit OS can in theory address 4G squared of memory, but no physical computer can (yet) be fitted with that amount. If you have 8GB or more and run a 64-bit OS, then a 32-bit task will be allocated a whole 4GB, as the OS has space to sit elsewhere. This is one reason a 32-bit task will run better under a 64-bit OS (with 8GB+) than under a 32-bit OS.

pcrecord Tue, 09/20/2016 - 05:22

Josem, post: 441398, member: 49899 wrote: I was told my PC is the reason I get bad recordings on guitars

Unless it crashes and/or, your computer has nothing to do with it. Noises may come from, guitar pickups, amp, mic, preamp/interface etc...

Sean G, post: 441406, member: 49362 wrote: Pull that Line 6 Spyder out of the chain and go direct into the instrument input on the interface...if the crackling stops then you know its in the Spyder.

Talk to Glenn about the Spyder ! ;)

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