hi,

best advice I can give you is pull the kick down by 5db or so. Its out of proportion with the rest of the track. Try that and re post the mix.

Alright I reuploaded it to the same link

much better!

listening to this was like someone sticking "needles in my mind" so to speak. i can honestly say this is one of the worst things i have heard in years ... and i have heard a lot of really bad stuff posted.

Chris was being kind when he said to pull the kick back ... who ever the drummer is they should be dragged out into the street and run over by an SUV ... the vocalist should be next. the guitar playing is just as bad ... worst solo ever ... it's just horrible ... but what do i know? it will probably be a hit. goes to show.

Kurt Foster, post: 402221 wrote: listening to this was like someone sticking "needles in my mind" so to speak. i can honestly say this is one of the worst things i have heard in years ... and i have heard a lot of really bad stuff posted.

Chris was being kind when he said to pull the kick back ... who ever the drummer is they should be dragged out into the street and run over by an SUV ... the vocalist should be next. the guitar playing is just as bad ... worst solo ever ... it's just horrible ... but what do i know? it will probably be a hit. goes to show.

Wow, that was unnecessary. I'm just looking for some advice on my mix.

audiokid, post: 402194 wrote: much better!

Lol glad you think so. Anything I should touch up?

Since the last time I listened to this, I've dissembled my entire mixing studio and have it all in boxes so I cannot be as accurate now.

Not that this is of any interest but it is somewhat related to what Kurt is thinking. I'm debating selling my studio and getting out of this digital crap industry, or taking my analog rig to my lake property and going into online mixing ( not sure yet). Fishing helps me mellow out. The reason I'm thinking about selling it all is because the industry has reached a point of self destruction and stupid beyond words. Music sounds like ass to me and I'm having a hard time staying positive lol. . So, I hear what Kurt is saying here.

Your mix sounds like digital crap and bad plug-in compression on every track. But the song is cool enough that a good studio could redo it all and help your goal.

Its hard to say fix this or that because I can tell you don't have good gear to work with. Any suggestions are never going to help much. This is the sound of digital squash , over use of bad plug-ins and poor converters. The overall mix however, aside from the setbacks, is more even now. So you've done a good job for what you have to work with.

I hope this helped some. others here with less expectation will have more positive to say. Many here are using digital crap too and they are used to it. Hang in there, Remy is around the corner and she is always a hoot to follow.

I never get this much negativity and rudeness on the other (better) recording forums. I kinda don't want to post here anymore. My plugins are good. I can't afford analog. I'm just new to the game and am looking for constructive criticism to help my mixing techniques improve.

I remember when I gave my first demo out and the record company said it wasn't ready. I took it to heart. Little did I know back then, I thought they were attacking my talent when it was my recording and mix they were talking about. I wasn't ready for the air and their stamp of approval.

Listening back to it years later, they were right, it wasn't ready at all.
At the time however, my music sounded great to me. How dare them. But you know what, it was mixed on a crappy system and it sounded all muffled.

So what are you wondering here? If you are a newbie, its sounds great. Keep up the good work.
Are you posting this music with the expectation that is would be commercial ready? Or, are you just wondering how it sounds?

Let me ask you a question, Did you use compressors on every channel?

again Chris is being kind. well i think the mix or the equipment used is not the issue.

the singing is out of tune.

the drumming is horrible. the drums contribute nothing to the effort. completely inappropriate. it sounds like a galloping horse with a broken leg that needs to be shot .

the guitar solo sucks. learn to play

no amount of re recording or studio trickery will make up for the fact that it's a crap song and crap performance. and just because no one on any other forums has the hair to tell you the truth doesn't make me wrong. i know what's good and this ain't it. don't quit your day job.

if you read the disclaimer it says "- EGO WARNING: If you can't take constructive criticism and work together as a group, this mixing forum is not for you."

... if you don't want an honest opinion, don't ask.

But I didn't ask your opinion on the performance did I? This isn't my band, there is no ego involved. You're just a dick.

I think your mix would sound better with less compression or plug-ins. The reason I say this, is because I know something that others may not hear. I'm blessed with a really nice system that has allowed me to listen to things and tune into a sound that cause's something I cannot describe in a few words. Majority are all suffering from this.

Bottom line is, take as many plug-ins off your session and see what it does. I hear severe hemorrhaging between your tracks. Or smear, or dead. It produces a boring flat line that is caused from digital music and poor code. You don't have to believe me but do yourself a favour and start over on this one. This time see how well you can do with less stuff. This is the secret to a more open and lively sounding mix.

One thing at a time.

After this, the next step willl be shaping.

Does this make sense?

I've said enough, its up to you now.

Cheers!

Kerfoot32, post: 402243 wrote: But I didn't ask your opinion on the performance did I? This isn't my band, there is no ego involved. You're just a dick.

oooow ooohch! that hurts ..... lol like no ones ever called me a dick before/ LOL.

.... well the mix is fine. i can hear all the elements individually (unfortunately) and the relative balances are ok.

most who post or comment here and other places on the interweb agree that the song and performance are elemental. in other words "you can't polish a turd" (unless of course you freeze it). this seems to be an attempt to polish a turd.

"what we have here, is failure to communicate."

i personally would not post something like that on the net and associate myself with it. so don't try to tell me there's no ego involved ... you were hoping someone would tell you you're the next Phil Spector ... sorry, you're not.

everyone’s entitled to an opinion, especially when asked. you asked. i didn't so who's the dick?

For the 2nd time, I didn't ask for your opinion on the performance. I wanted people to tell me what parts of the mix to work on, not tell me I'm Phil Spector. **** off.

first you requested;

Kerfoot32, post: 402147 wrote: [MEDIA=soundcloud]kerfoot32two/jane
I'm still working on this mix and wanted to see what you guys think needs the most work. Any advice and opinions are much appreciated.

now you say;

Kerfoot32, post: 402147 wrote: For the 2nd time, I didn't ask for your opinion on the performance. I wanted people to tell me what parts of the mix to work on, not tell me I'm Phil Spector. **** off.

well excuse me ...

what needs work is the song and the playing ...
i thought you said any advice and opinions are much appreciated .... oh wait! you did say that ... until someone (meee!) said it sucked ... then you don't want to hear it.

i think it's you ... all of it. your bad singing, your bad guitar playing and your bad song writing but you won't own up to it. on your RO profile under instruments you entered ALL. on Soundcloud the song is posted as Kerfoot (you) and not a band ... does this so called "band" know you're posting their song under your name? so which is it? are you a plagiarist or a liar? you ain't no one man band Stevie Wonder .. that's for sure.

i can't separate the intellectual property from the physical mix ... what does it matter if the mix is prefect if the material and performances suck?

i would rather hear a good song and good performance recorded and mixed badly than bad playing and writing well recorded. i mean what's the point? back at ya with the f off. save the bandwith for something good.

"Don't ask me what I think of you, I might not give the answer that you you want me to." Fleetwood Mac"

Here's the thing...

Bad performances will absolutely effect the mix.

For just one example, when you have a kick and a bass that aren't in time/together, it wreaks havoc with things like compressors and limiters and their respective attack and release settings.

So while you can say that you want just the mix critiqued, the music is absolutely effecting the quality of your mix.

-d.

Alright guys, I understand everything you're saying and I appreciate the feedback. I wanted honesty and boy did I get it. And that really isn't my band. There's a variety of songs from multiple bands on my soundcloud. They're all productions of mine that I throw on my soundcloud so I can let forums hear them and tell me how bad my mixes are lol.

You are Cool,

I stayed away from the performance because you asked about the mix. But, I still stand firm on the compression which is killing the sound of your mix. Most compression plug-ins in general sound like crap to me, especially when you use more than a few when you really don't need them. I know 90% of the population thinks different but thats because they are in the dark. Learn to mix with less of that and your mixes will come alive. You will also be able to help your "bands"/clients become better performers. And, your ear will develop and know what transients are all about. Don't kill it all in the beginning. Leave room for the mastering comp.

Keep your levels low enough on the tracks so you aren't slamming the master track.

Thanks for the wisdom tree. I'm listening to you. I'm gonna post a new song in a few days and I'm going a lot easier on the compression this time. Do you recommend a certain master bus peak level during a mix?

Also what is your opinion on master bus compression?

master bus compression is the worst because one thing in the mix can trigger the compression, but everything in the mix gets compressed.

leave the 2-bus compression for the mastering . if you must compress, do it to individual tracks. i usually only compress bass and vocals unless for effect and usually soft knee with a slow attack and a fast release and between 2 to 1 to 6 to 1 ratio.

before i wrote that i thought this was all you. i went back and did an independent search for Kerfoot and found several songs. so i now know i was mistaken about this all being you ... sorry for that.

there were a couple of tracks of yours that i kind of like .. since you haven't posted them here for comments i will refrain from saying anything about them. one thing i did notice was all your mixes seem to be at different levels. you might consider trying to get more consistent level from song to song. try to get your mixes to all peak at -12 with average levels at -18 to -16 ...

i can really hear the room in your drums .. maybe some room treatments would help tame those early reflections.

record on

I agree with Kurt and also have no rules either. We are analog geeks and share similar methods. I will slam snares and other things for certain music. I love that sound but for other sounds, I might use a comp just to kiss something or just for its sound. Analog is great for this. Digital comps have a sound that you have to be careful of.

2-bus compression is hit and miss, depends on the song and if you are doing your own Mastering or not. I'm a mixer so I will do things a bit past where you would logically leave off. Mastering comps glue it all. I use analog comps for that too but have a digital limiter right at the end before upload. There are a few good ones but one I prefer is [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.fabfilte…"]FabFilter Pro-L - Limiter Plug-In VST VST3 AU AAX RTAS AudioSuite[/]="http://www.fabfilte…"]FabFilter Pro-L - Limiter Plug-In VST VST3 AU AAX RTAS AudioSuite[/]

Hi Kerfoot, this is my first post and i am a total newbie.

That song needs retracked again, especially the drums which means all of it. I get what the guys are saying here, the drums need sorting badly so you can do your job properly. I tried listening to the mix but the performances were overpowering. Unfortunately Kurt is correct, the drums sound like Sneakers in a tumble dryer.
You need a platform to build from, and if that isn't right it's all going to come down like a deck of cards. You have far, far more ability than me when it comes to mixing so don't think i am knocking you at all.
The only suggestion i can give, is next time encourage a better performance from the band. Give the drummer a click, tell him it sucks and to simplify it, anything to make it better. Don't shout "That's fine until it REALLY IS FINE. Then your mixing skills will enhance what's there. Don't forget it is your current and future reputation you need to think of as you will be judged by the end results, which is what has happened here in this thread.

I expect to be shot down in flames when i post something up, but i'll do my best to make sure the playing is as best that can be first. Then it will ALL be my fault if/when it sucks.

shoestring, post: 402310 wrote:
..... the drums sound like Sneakers in a tumble dryer.

chuckle ....:biggrin: (in the 70's, i knew a guy who was in "The Sneakers" .... )

shoestring, post: 402310 wrote: The only suggestion i can give, is next time encourage a better performance from the band. Give the drummer a click, tell him it sucks and to simplify it, anything to make it better. Don't shout "That's fine until it REALLY IS FINE. Then your mixing skills will enhance what's there. Don't forget it is your current and future reputation you need to think of as you will be judged by the end results, which is what has happened here in this thread.

or just don't post anything that isn't up to par just for the sake of posting something.

i struggled for a long time recording myself and friends and i was never satisfied with the results. i thought it was my recording chops at fault.

then one day i had the chance to record an band that really kicked ass. we recorded them in a living room with a chezo phonic rack mount mixer a dat recorder and some 57s and atm 10's and atm11's.

that recording kicked ass. that's when i realized it's really more about the song and the performance. mics / pres/ compressors/ eqs and reverbs are just the icing on the cake. if the basics aren't there, you're pissing in the wind.

keep recording.

I think what Chris was trying to convey was that it's essential to know what these tools are and what they do before you use them.

Unless it's being used for an effect in it's own right, compression isn't something you really "hear", unless you're a trained ear and can pick up on the subtle sonic nuances of it's use.

Your use of compression was anything but subtle.

It's a gain reduction tool used to tame transients. You don't always need to hear it in order for it to be doing its job.

Strapping a compressor on the 2-bus is common, but again, not just for the sake of using one, and certainly not unless you absolutely know what you are doing with it.

Misuse of gain reduction is probably the number one mistake of most new engineers.

It can result in flattened dynamics, lifeless mixes and in the end, leave the mastering engineer with little to no room to work.

And, if you have hard transients happening out of time, as in the relationship between a kick and a bass that are way out of time with each other on down beats, it can cause all sorts of problems with gain reduction in terms of attack and release times.

Reduce the amount of compression you are using to where it's needed only, to reign in transient peaks and to smooth out some of the jumps....and not because you feel you need to use it on every track, on the 2-bus, or just because you think that because you have the plug that you should use it.

And please... hone your chops on a band that's worth it and that will compliment your chops, and not on just any fly by night group of wannabees with a drum kit, a guitar and bass.

Because you shouldn't want your name associated with stuff that just plain sucks that bad musically. It's in your best interest to not have that stuff floating around out there associated with you.

Realize that bad performances can and absolutely will effect the quality of a mix. As I stated previously...

fwiw
-d.