well it's not up to me whether or not this is spam...

but i'll tell you from a business point of view, you don't want to put excuses right next to your demonstration songs. Are you selling your potential? your better off putting a better song(s) w/ compromised quality than they other way around.

Like if you were a clothing designer, "just opened, check out our spring line" (btw some o them are ugly but... i was told to make them) not good for business. Why would you try to form your reputation based on something your not even happy w/???? If you haven't recorded anything you feel is a good representation of your work, then put nothing at all until you do.

The general public doesn't really listen to audio quality, they listen to the songs. even when you say listen to how good this sounds, they aren't thinking 'engineering good' they're thinking song-good. if you had the power to edit, then there shouldn't be much excuse. you simply make them play the sloppy parts over till you get it, let them leave, and come back to a edited performance that they couldn't play. they will think they are rockstars. that's your job, to make sure nothing leaves your studio w/ out reaching at least your minimal acceptable level of quality.

For your demo reel, why don't you find some bands that actually can play, and record them for free, in exchange for them allowing you to use the recording on your site? Good musicians make good recordings, and at that point it's up to the engineer to, not get in the way, or screw it up.

looks like you could use some acoustic treatment in your room, lot's of hard parallel surfaces in there. Best of luck in your adventure.

kmetal, post: 399569 wrote: well it's not up to me whether or not this is spam...

but i'll tell you from a business point of view, you don't want to put excuses right next to your demonstration songs. Are you selling your potential? your better off putting a better song(s) w/ compromised quality than they other way around.

Like if you were a clothing designer, "just opened, check out our spring line" (btw some o them are ugly but... i was told to make them) not good for business. Why would you try to form your reputation based on something your not even happy w/???? If you haven't recorded anything you feel is a good representation of your work, then put nothing at all until you do.

The general public doesn't really listen to audio quality, they listen to the songs. even when you say listen to how good this sounds, they aren't thinking 'engineering good' they're thinking song-good. if you had the power to edit, then there shouldn't be much excuse. you simply make them play the sloppy parts over till you get it, let them leave, and come back to a edited performance that they couldn't play. they will think they are rockstars. that's your job, to make sure nothing leaves your studio w/ out reaching at least your minimal acceptable level of quality.

For your demo reel, why don't you find some bands that actually can play, and record them for free, in exchange for them allowing you to use the recording on your site? Good musicians make good recordings, and at that point it's up to the engineer to, not get in the way, or screw it up.

looks like you could use some acoustic treatment in your room, lot's of hard parallel surfaces in there. Best of luck in your adventure.

Thank you for the advice!! Ill edit them down. I did like the songs, but then i was told i was to not do anything about he sloppy takes, and leave them alone. its not spam. I apologize if i offended you.

lol, def didn't offend me man, it takes alot more than that lol. well the customer is always right eh? ya know i'm a fan of live takes, and feel and vibe, and even a flubbed note, but it's a fine line between sloppy, and perfectly imperfect, ya know? maybe when the kid hears what it could sound like if he performed better, it'll inspire him to improve.

i do this all the time w/ singers. they sing what they think is okay, then i slap auto tune on it, and get the invetivable yodel sound from them being so far off, and then they can clearly hear there mistakes. they usually come back a week or two later and sing much better, and w/ out pitch correction, or very little of it. Good luck man!

Like if you were a clothing designer, "just opened, check out our spring line" (btw some o them are ugly but... i was told to make them) not good for business. Why would you try to form your reputation based on something your not even happy w/???? If you haven't recorded anything you feel is a good representation of your work, then put nothing at all until you do.

once again, K hits another one out of the park.

You are better off not putting any audio up as a representation of your studio - as opposed to putting up examples where you have to make excuses.... in bright red printing using all caps, no less... LOL.

You're talking to a forum made up of a lot of veterans of this biz. We understand that, unless you are the producer, ultimately you don't have much control over how good or bad the playing is. If the band isn;t willing to listen to you in regard to how bad they played, and if they don't care enough about their own product to do it until it's right, then why would you?

Your job as an engineer is to provide the best recording that you can of any given performance. Your job is the sonics, the fidelity. If you are working with great players..... great musicians with great timing, tone, pocket, groove and energy, so much the better, and your job is to capture that.

By the same token, if you are working with a band that sucks - and you will... oh my yes, you will - then your job is to provide the best fidelity you can... the best recording possible... of crap.

That doesn't mean, however, that you should use this as an example of your studio's work.

As K mentioned, you're better off not providing any examples at all.... until you have an example that you don't need to make excuses for. ;)

Welcome to the game, welcome to the biz!

Good luck.

-donny

OK thanks everyone ill go back and rework some stuff.

They say that no publicity is bad as long as you spell the name correctly.

In this case, with an audible signature, you are not helping your case.

I would stop while I still have at least one client.

Get your foot off the gas and learn how to manage and promote your work instead of this veiled attempt at search engine saturation.

I didn't spell it wrong? Audible signature? im not sure i understand your reply. please elaborate.

My point exactly.

The audible signature is that which most professional engineers and producers can call their own. Many engineers are hired for their engineering style. You don't ask them whether they were using state-of-the-art equipment, no. You hire them for what you know they can deliver.

In listening to your example on sound cloud, that first cut while it starts off rather nice-sounding, the drum set left my mouth gaping as to how awful it sounded. Your other heavy metal cuts were executed far better. So I think you're getting off on the wrong foot?

I have a lot of real nice equipment but at times, I've used my friends rather low-end PA oriented stuff, when they've asked me over to their place to show them how to get a good sound out of their crappy equipment. Which is always fun. It's fun in that, it has more technical limitations than my good stuff has. And you adjust your engineering technique accordingly. And that's really the only place where those printed specifications kind of come into play. It just lets you know what you can't exceed. It doesn't really tell you what its limitations are, in reference, say, to the good stuff. Because it really shouldn't matter. So I don't mind using a Mackie, Mr. Peavey, Mr. Behringer's stuff. And I'll frequently remove their snare drum and bass drum microphone pack kits to stick on a 57 in both. Using the rest of the kit for the drums overall needs. But not always. I never make any excuse for the equipment as it's all quite a bit better than anything we had in that price range 15-20 years ago. And I like a lot of cheap SM57/58's and I don't need nothin' else. And where their computers may not be up to the task like my computers so I'll still record at 16 bit, 44.1 kHz. Just as we did back in the beginning as it did in 1983. And that does not limit the quality of the recording. No, it won't sound the same as 24-bit, 96 kHz. But this ain't analog anymore its digital. And even standard definition 16-bit, 44.1 kHz digital outperforms any analog deck ever made, costing many thousands of dollars for a simple stereo machine and over $36,000 for a 24 channel version. None of which had more than a 65 DB dynamic range from noise floor to saturation. And when you combine all of those tracks together, the noise combined along with it making it all the worse. And you won't have that problem at 16 bits, 44.1 kHz. It only gets better from there if your equipment is up to the task. And with a lot of folks' home recording and Internet computers, they're not quite ready for full-blown professional audio multitrack productions like a dedicated specially designed computer is. So those are trade-offs one makes without any real repercussions to the quality that you are producing. So you never make excuses regarding your equipment.

You indicated that these were rough, raw, taste of, recordings. And that would be fine if they were of a really superb quality to begin with. They're close but no cigar.

I have personally posted some of the earliest recordings I ever made as a kid of 14 and up to the current stuff. The stuff I made it 14 actually sounds as good as anything I'm making today for the most part. And it was all done with totally amateur consumer tape recorder and a couple of microphones. I built a home made reverb unit out of the same springs, you find in the bottom of the guitar amplifier, at 14. 1/4 inch, one quarter track Sony 630 with a pair of Electro-Voice 636 dynamic microphones and a included Sony dynamic cardioid. But that's just for fun and it rocks if you like Jerome Kern? How about some Country Rock from a four track Teacrap 3340 on your homemade 24 track console in 1978, that kicks ass to this day? And then the eight track jingles you also made 33+ years ago on a Yamaha PM 1000 PA board that made millions of dollars for the advertising agency over a span of 20 years? And then the modern 24 track analog and 24 track digital stuff that you got better known for doing.

So while we congratulate you on your new studio and clientele, which is more than I can say for myself, you need to know more about marketing. After all, it's more yourself and your studio you are selling. And for rich folks, it's not so much themselves but their studios that they are selling. They might be trying to sell time or just the whole kit and caboodle to get out of the business of which they are not making any more money with like myself? Keeping up with the Jones Equipment Company is an ongoing and risky investment. It's just like the lottery. No matter how many tickets you buy there is no guarantee of a proper payoff. Sometimes it's location, location, location. Other times, its financial discourse. And the move to one-button fun stuff to play with on your smart phone.

If you're doing this for yourself and for your own music, it's a lovely investment in yourself. You may also be able to reap some return on financially sharing your facility with those not as fortunate as yourself to own the same. And that's a nice cottage business. Most commercial studios today, and with the amount of square footage necessary for a reasonable professional environment, ain't going to make it anymore. They still exist for those financially flush enough to lease them by the month. But that's an investment only the rich folks can really afford to do. And your market is basically toward the workin' class. Yeah, while I generally charge an hourly rate, most of the time, you work out a deal for each and every individual client that requests it or you think worthy enough to offer to? You never know when a Tori Amos will walk in your door as she did ours. But the boss did not want to invest his studio time and paying me to produce and record her. And when it's not your own studio, they slip through your fingers. And then all but one of her recordings I did of her were lost in a fire, which were her first demos that don't really sound like demos. So I only have a contest song where we paired her up with a black ghetto band we were also working with for a song about Baltimore, contest. We didn't win but I think we should have. Anybody want to hear Tori Amos singing the Baltimore song? Recorded in 1978 on my custom console. On the Ampex MM 1200-16 we bought off of the AES convention floor. You know, stuff you're proud of. No excuses.

My equipment isn't state-of-the-art because it was made in the mid-1970s. So it's kind of bad I guess? Yeah... bad ass.

Hemorrhoid Recordings Inc.
Mx. Remy Ann David

You are a trip Remy, a stone cold trip :)

Thats great. thanks for the advice everyone. i was surprised how the drums came out on the first song as well. i liked the huge drum sound, but once again i was just being directed to my guitarists "vision" i was just the "brush" in his hand.

Im sorry for making any excuses about my music. I am personally proud of all the work i did on there! On songs 4, 5 and 6 I did have a little input as to where the songs started and ended and breakdowns and stuff. But other than that, there was no other input. I am excited for my future in this business! I attended Cuyahoga Community College for Recording Arts, and I have almost unlimited access to large format SSL, and Trident rooms and all of my professors are accomplished producers and engineers. Im still learning tips and tricks on how to construct sessions and make better recordings. Im still learning everyday. I hope all of you are too!

well hello, neighbor. Akron here. ;)

Before my father's passing on in July of 2000, he had been the Associate Concert Master of the Cleveland Orchestra for about 10 years. His widow, my stepmom, still lives in Cleveland, the home of his birth place in 1921.

So you are on a great pass away now. It's going to be fun, educational, surprising, sometimes lucrative. And luck has a lot to do with it also. And you are an excellent engineer when you please your producer, no matter how awful it might sound. So you won't be using all of your past recorded sessions as your personal demos LOL. Put the best up of yourself, because that's who you are selling.

I've got Chris (the owner/operator of Recording.org) putting me down for my 1970s style of engineering and technique. He's not paying me to help you or contribute to this site. I'm doing this to help you understand that there are many ways and many places in the past we have come from. That's not to say some of these older techniques of recording shouldn't also work for you in modern recording techniques and software. It does. Good technique is good technique regardless of the technique and from whence it came. LOL whence it came, not bad for a high school dropout that failed English miserably? Don't you think? Why else do you think I'm an audio and broadcast engineer, LOL? All I could focus upon was sound thanks to severe HA ADD which actually makes me a great multitasker. Worked great for NBC-TV news audio when you're doing six things simultaneously during the show that's live coast-to-coast. Constantly changing incoming remotes, constantly changing imperatively accurate individual monitor mixes for every input coming into your console of which there were many. The technical director is talking to you, the director is talking to you, the producer is talking to you, the remotes are checking in with you and you are listening to when speaking to the other news anchor that is not on the air of the one you currently have on the air. Don't forget to queue your music up and announcements ready in your playback devices. Check that level, watch that gate, talk to the remotes and never miss a beat. And that's a little more involved than tracking your rock 'n roll band, all within the time it takes for a " THIS IS AN NBC NEWS... SPECIAL REPORT WITH BRIAN WILLIAMS... and you're off and running in 39 seconds time. Try recording rock 'n roll that way LOL it's fun. It's called a live rock 'n roll music broadcast spectacular. And the 40+ inputs you have coming in, without a microphone check, as does sound like the hit, on the radio and you've got 30 seconds of the first song to accomplish that in. A little shorter time than the week it took their engineer and producer to come up with. And I think when you get to that stage of your career, ain't nothing you can't do. And don't let anybody tell you otherwise. We all strive for something different in our engineering talents and skills. No two are alike although some are. Good engineers can frequently emulate stylistic similarities to other engineers. Some of us have to. Others are just complete originals of their own making. There isn't any right or wrong best or not best. It's all in how you want to do it and what you want to accomplish, where you want to work, who you want to work for if anyone? I decided, early on, through naïveté, I was going to be great at building things, designing things, fixing things, recording music and broadcasting it on the radio while also fixing that equipment. And designing my own studio and all of the equipment itself within it. So I was really naïve' LOL. And I was stupid as I accomplished all of that. Who knew? I thought I had to be a Master of All which required a lot of Jacking. See? I told you I failed English. I got that all wrong... by doing everything wrong just the right way. So I'm not always right but I'm never wrong.

Remy brain molecules leaving now on track 24
Mx. Remy Ann David

Cleveland is so rusty...
Mx. Remy Ann David

Before my father's passing on in July of 2000, he had been the Associate Concert Master of the Cleveland Orchestra for about 10 years. His widow, my stepmom, still lives in Cleveland, the home of his birth place in 1921.

Did he ever do any work with Telarc?

Ya, I think that's who he worked with mostly with the symphony. He used to tell me about the guy. But then when it was also Concert Master for the St. Paul Chamber Orchestra, I was rubbing elbows with Tom Jung . One of the owners of the then " Sound 80 ", in Minneapolis. Later, owner of DMP an esoteric digital label early on. I never met the guy from Telarc, myself. Probably bumped into him many times at AES , NYC? I wasn't quite into his thing. Cool for sure. Dad wasn't much into the technical aspects so he really couldn't tell me much. I mean he had that Sony 1610/1630 when I only had a PCM F1, along with my API 3124's/Neil Muncy SSI Melcor 1731's. I couldn't afford the good stuff LOL. Had those nasty sounding old ribbons, 87's, 67's, 86's, 56's. I didn't have state-of-the-art stuff. Not in my budget LOL. Same with Tom's recordings.

And for the ancient trivia... Sound 80 had a Roseville Michigan built ADM console. Inside, it used all of those little UTC awful "ouncer" microphone transformers, that I guess he thought sounded OK back in 1970? And he had a Scully 288-16, plenty of 280's. Neumann VMS 70 record lathe. Pretty cool for 1970 along with their ARP-2500, the big one. My first introduction to the Scully 280 there. I was 14. I had a Magnacord P-63 the one that took 10.5 reels, at that time.

My dads on some wonderful recordings with Cleveland. Eugene Altschuler.
Mx. Remy Ann David