If you do a lot of acoustic guitars and acoustic instruments in general ,you might add the True Systems P2 analog pre in there.Clean and sits well.Makes a very fine DI also.
All of the pres you've listed will do the job..now its your choice.I personally would go with 2 channels of Hardy in the 4 channel box so you can upgrade later.This is over your budget.You'll only get one channel of vintech at that price as well as the API.The Sebatron will work for you in any case.

So, what should I get next? A-designs, Sebatron, Vintech, Sytek, John Hardy, API....?

The John Hardy stuff is great and I fully agree that it well worth owning. Sell the RNP and get 2-ch of the John Hardy.

If your happy with what your getting from the RNP, or even if you get the John Hardy, the API makes a nice addition and is a must have item in my rack. You can one API mic pre and a lunchbox rack and then fill as you grow, or go for the API channel strip.

The last 2 projects I've done were acoustic singer-songwriter projects. This is where I started noticing problems. So, the acoustic guitar may be the focus of the problem. It'd be nice to have a pre that does acoustics, vocals and drum overheads well.

Recommendations so far: Earthworks 102, John Hardy, True Systems P2

Earthworks 102, very transparent.. neutral. True Systems P2 another transparent colorless neutral type of mic pre. John Hardy, especially with the Jensen transformer, is a very good "sounding" mic pre.. has some color and attitude. All very good and hard to go wrong with.

I like the how the RNP sounds on acoustic guitars although I really dislike the price, small package light weight and overall constuction. It is what it is.. a great pre for people who need a pair of basic high gain type pres for recording on a DAW where there are no pres on the soundcard or the interface.. but not really any better than most of the basic no frills pres found on small mixers or in audio interfaces..

I have been using my Sebatron vmp 4000e a lot lately with great results, since I had to send the JLM TMP8 review unit back to Joe Malone at [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.jlmaudio…"]JLM[/]="http://www.jlmaudio…"]JLM[/]. I await the unit I have on order with much anticipation. I really like both these units (Sebatron and JLM TMP8) from down under and I see them as an alternitive answer, a bridge in terms of cost, between the higher end pres like the Great River MP2NV and those found in a Mackie mixer. If I had my druthers, I would have a whole rack of MP/NVs of course..

You can get an OSA (Old School Audio) lunchbox and 2 pres for $1400. They make three different flavors of preamp, 1 of which is very API-ish.

http://www.atlasproaudio.com/osa2.html

The cool thing is being able to add more stuff later. The lunchbox holds 8 modules and is fully API compatible.

Originally posted by Screws:
You can get an OSA (Old School Audio) lunchbox and 2 pres for $1400. They make three different flavors of preamp, 1 of which is very API-ish.

http://www.atlasproaudio.com/osa2.html

The cool thing is being able to add more stuff later. The lunchbox holds 8 modules and is fully API compatible.

You can also see the companies website at [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.oldschoo…"] Old School Audio[/]="http://www.oldschoo…"] Old School Audio[/]. Thanks Steve, for mentioning this. I have written the company and asked to perform a review on their products. These products look very promising and affordable..

So far these are the pres recommended:

Brent Averill API
Earthworks lab 102
John Hardy M1
Langevin Dual Vocal
Old School audio API style
Safesound Audio P1
Tru Systems P2
Sebatron
Joe Malone

Several of the units are API or API'ish. What can you tell me about the "API" quality that makes them so right?

Originally posted by shortyprs:

Several of the units are API or API'ish. What can you tell me about the "API" quality that makes them so right?

Well the API is a studio standard... chances are you have a favorite recording that used an API console in the recording and mixing.. it is a very agressive, "in your face with attitude" sound. The transformers employed really warm things up but the mid and high ranges are very "there". NOT TRANSPERENT! Funny thing is, a lot of recordists didn't like this about them in the 70's and 80's which led to the more transparent and colorless designs.. seems they didn't know a good thing when they had it. The JLM TMP8 is of this type of transformer op amp design. I am very intrigued by the Old School line and I hope they send a few of them out in a PwrRack for me to evaluate..

Not to spread the field even thinner, but there's another company making API'ish, Neve'ish and even John Hardy'ish preamps in a modular design.

http://www.seventhcirclestudios.com/SCA/SCA.htm

These look like a bargain, though there's no D.I., no pad and no API standard slot compatibility. However, Geoff Tanner (former Neve tech and preamp designer/owner for Aurora Audio) claims that the SCA N72 design is the only one he has seen that correctly wires up and completes the 1272 circuitry (which was originally designed to be just a line amplifier) to the spec of the 1290, which was a mic amp.

As far as the most flavors in one box, it looks like SCA may get the prize.

Hey Steve, so what can you tell me about the seventhcircle pres? What have you used? What did you use them for? What were your impressions?

The John Hardy design and some other preamp makers that use the 990 opamp as their base sound, came about as a result of those that wanted a cleaner sound than the API. So the two compliment each other well as covering both ends of desire. And while the API is known for the heavy colored and agressive sound, it is not always like that. True, it won't ever be as clear and finely detailed as others like the John Hardy, but there are many times when that can be boring or stale and it is the color found in the likes of the API and Neve sound that can really add the right spice. The API is really source dependant. High level and fast transients like drums have been noted for their phat and agressive sound that many prefer and use the API specificly for. But the API also makes a great bass DI, addds fullness and body to thin and hyped mics (like most of the cheap china made stuff) and can do wonders to a thin and whimpy voice, or a flat and lifeless acoustic guitar without having to be over agressive, but can be so if you drive it hard. The API and a SM57 or 421 on something like a Marshall amp is awesome.

The OSA stuff started out as exact API clones, but are now much different sounding because they use different components based on the API design. If you want the real API sound, buy the API.

heres yet another site to visit that may be of interest to you in your search for sonic nirvana...http://www.marquetteaudiolabs.com

It was a post like this that led me to buy a Great River 1NV. The 1NV perfectly fit what I was looking for. That's a round about way of saying thanks for all the great ideas and suggestions. Exactly what I'm needing. I really appreciate it when you guys tell me about the technology/attributes behind each style of pre. Helps me sort out what to get.

My goal of finding a good general purpose pre to help balance out the mix doesn't seem like an easy one. I still have to decide if I want the over-all mix to be more API'ish (big, warm, in-your face) or cleaner and more "detailed" (John Hardy, Earthworks). Have I got the ideas right?
Let me know if I'm mixing up concepts here.

Here's a question in a different direction. Would something like the Distressor help with that perception of "balance" in the mix? Any thoughts?

It's my understanding that the Great River 1NV, being based on the Neve design, would be a colored preamp like the API. If that's the case, why not go with something a little more transparent like the John Hardy or Earthworks. Or even the Great River MP2H. This might help give some more balance.

I myself am in the same situation of looking for a really good high end pre, my first. I mostly record voice and was initially thinking to go for something more transparent like the Avalon M5, but I also do a lot of bass and guitar and have been thinking lately that something like the API would help my tone a lot.

I wasn't aware of the whole lunch box idea. Seems great though. I'll have to look into it.

Dave

The Sytek is certainly an option as well. If you want "API attitude" it doesn't have it, but if your looking for a very clean detaled amp the Sytek will do the job well. And at a great price for for four channels.

Of the three Old School Audio pres that are listed on the Atlas site, which is the one that everyone is calling the "API-like pre". They all are obviously similar with some transformer changes, etc.

Nathan Eldred described the three OSA pres at http://www.atlasproaudio.com/osalowdown.html. They're a dealer. Here's his breakdown:

MP1-A cleaner/nuetral pre. Pendulum or Manley-like;
MP1-C similar to API 312;
MP1-L more like an Averill 1272.

I haven't heard any of them, so I don't have a clue.

I checked out the Atlas site. Looks like the OSA pre's are about the same price as the "real" API pre's.

I don't know for sure, but the OSA stuff looks less expensive than API. I've seen API 512's for about $725.00 a unit + 6 slot lunch box for $450.00 = $1,900.00

OSA direct goes about $500.00 a module and $575.00 for the box = $1,575.00

Of course the BA 312 2 channel rack is only $1,200.00...which is cheaper, if you can give up the expandability of the lunch box.

Where has anybody seen API stuff cheaper?

As I sift through all the products people have recommended, it boils down to choosing between 3 styles. It'd be a lot easier if, 1, I was rich and/or, 2, I could hear all the units before buying. Life ain't fair!

My three choices:

Another color - as in API'ish. In my price range, maybe 2 API's (512's?), 2 OSA's or a 2 channel BA 312. Good for punching up my mixes. My drummer would love me!

Clean pre: Sytek, Earthworks, John Hardy or sell stuff and go for a Great River 2mp. I really liked the listening sessions jazz stuff with the Hardy.

A Clean tube pre: Sebatron or A-Designs.

I like the price and versatility of the OSA stuff. I just wish more of you had actually heard or worked with them so I could get a better assessment.

The Earthworks and the Hardy could fill the nitch of the more acoustic projects I do and add contrast to my 1NV and Joe Meek.

The Sebatron and the A-Design are good ideas. I love tubes. I'm always playing with the tubes in my amps! Again, the problem is that so few people are talking about them. This is the only site where I can find people that have used the Sebatron.

I'd love any final words about or comparing these pres. After that, its a game of crap shoot and good return policies! Any final practical info on any of these pres?

The Sebatron and the A-Design are good ideas. I love tubes. I'm always playing with the tubes in my amps! Again, the problem is that so few people are talking about them. This is the only site where I can find people that have used the Sebatron.

Oh contrare' mon frer' I have seen much said about the Sebatrons in use on Gearslutz and at Harmony Central . Much the same may be said for the A designs stuff also .. a bit of buzz here and there but not a lot of folks raving.. so you have to consider the sources.. e-cue loves the A Designs pre so that good enough for me.. as far as the sebatron, you have to consider who is chatting them up and if you respect those peoples opinions.. also listen to the comparisons posted on this site in the reviews area.. that's the bst I can do for you. But if you don't like your Sebatron, you can always return it.. BTW, I don't know of anyone who has purchased a Sebatron and the regreted it ..

The Sebatron and the A-Design are good ideas. I love tubes. I'm always playing with the tubes in my amps! Again, the problem is that so few people are talking about them. This is the only site where I can find people that have used the Sebatron.

Oh contrare' mon frer' I have seen much said about the Sebatrons in use on Gearslutz and at Harmony Central . Much the same may be said for the A designs stuff also .. a bit of buzz here and there but not a lot of folks raving.. so you have to consider the sources.. e-cue loves the A Designs pre so that good enough for me.. as far as the Sebatron, you have to consider who is chatting them up and if you respect those peoples opinions.. also listen to the comparisons posted on this site in the reviews area.. that's the bst I can do for you. But if you don't like your Sebatron, you can always return it.. BTW, I don't know of anyone who has purchased a Sebatron and the regreted it ..

The Sebatron and the A-Design are good ideas. I love tubes. I'm always playing with the tubes in my amps! Again, the problem is that so few people are talking about them. This is the only site where I can find people that have used the Sebatron.

Oh contrare' mon frer' I have seen much said about the Sebatrons in use on Gearslutz and at Harmony Central . Much the same may be said for the A designs stuff also .. a bit of buzz here and there but not a lot of folks raving.. so you have to consider the sources.. e-cue loves the A Designs pre so that good enough for me.. as far as the Sebatron, you have to consider who is chatting them up and if you respect those peoples opinions.. also listen to the comparisons posted on this site in the reviews area.. that's the best I can do for you. But if you don't like your Sebatron, you can always return it.. BTW, I don't know of anyone who has purchased a Sebatron and the regreted it ..

Hey Kurt, a point three times well made! :D