1st) Demudi changed over to Agnula: http://www.agnula.org/ back in July, when funding from the EU began. However, Agnula is not available as per this moment... Progress on this project is at a snails pace...

2nd) Debian may be confusing for a first timer to install, but is much more secure and stable than the majority of releases (Mandrake/RedHat being in the weaker class). Demudi IS Debian, repackaged and modified for audio uses.

3rd) I've had a burned copy for a while (of Demudi), yet STILL haven't found the time to install it on one of my test boxes. If anyone has used it, let me know! I'd love to hear of your experiences.

W.

Originally posted by TheRealWaldo:

2nd) Debian may be confusing for a first timer to install, but is much more secure and stable than the majority of releases (Mandrake/RedHat being in the weaker class). Demudi IS Debian, repackaged and modified for audio uses.

3rd) I've had a burned copy for a while (of Demudi), yet STILL haven't found the time to install it on one of my test boxes. If anyone has used it, let me know! I'd love to hear of your experiences.

W.

actually, if someone wanted/needed debian, I would suggest using knoppix to install debian. much less painless. Even though it's not originally intended for a harddrive, there is an app that will install it to a hard drive.

I am going to install demudi this weekend (I'll just wipe over my current debain partition). I'll let you know how it goes. and how the apps act and such. :D I'm looking forward to a precompiled ardour.

anyone familiar with NAS? (Network Audio System)

========++++++++
update
========++++++++

well. the demudi installer needs a heap of helpin'.. heh
and I am too old to dink around getting something installed anymore. Oh well. Looked nice at the beginning splash screen. heh Will wait for the next release...

umm.. I dont recommend trying to install from that demudi iso.
heh

Jeez, I wish you Linux guys would speak English!
Hehehehehe
Actually, maybe you guys could give me some direction. As far as operating systems, my favorite (so far) is Mac OS 9.2.2. OSX is too busy, bloated, and repetitive. I despise Windows and all it stands for.
So, my quandry is that I have three peecees, all running W98. I have discs of XP Pro and 2K, but IMO, 98 is the lesser of the evils. I need to find an alternative OS to run on all of the peecees. I've looked into Lindows a bit, but I haven't tried it yet. From what I gather, Lindows does a pretty good job of supporting hardware, and their library of applications is quite extensive. A lot of games will run on Lindows, too. At this point, whether it runs DAW apps or not doesn't matter to me, since I do that on my G4. The drawback is that they are charging a pretty good chunk o' change for a version of Linux.
Are there other versions of Linux that may be suitable/appropriate for me? Are there any other operating systems that you know-of that I might be wise to consider? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Well I personally use SuSE Professional and I love it. And if you want to try a DAWS for SuSE that can handle video, they have Broadcast 2000 with it. Just make sure if you're going to try to make a DAWS with linux, to use RME cards because they have good support for linux and they rock for audio. I'm still on 7.2 I'm going to get 8.1 soon which looks very promising and has good reviews.

heres a link on SuSE's website that has screen shots of their distro. http://www.suse.com/us/private/products/suse_linux/i386/index.html

I would advise Mandrake distribution of linux (3 cd download - free). and if you want to run windows programs (not perfectly) also install winex.

http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/
I actually use mandrake, its got the "mandrake control center", which is really nice.

If you just wanted to check out linux, without installing, knoppix runs from a cd. (but you can install it if you want)
Remember, running an OS from a cd is slow. Linux is not this slow from a harddrive.
Doesnt have the advanced audio apps, though.

http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html

and if you can't download these iso's.. there's cheapbytes!
http://cart.cheapbytes.com/cgi-bin/cart

Linux, isn't that Charlie Brown's friend, the one with the blanket? :D
Hey, SOS,I was a MACerfella running DeckII on a PowerPC601, waiting for the Copland OS, which never came as promised and was little to little to late OS8 instead, but I still hung in for the cheaper MACclones, which was later scrapped by Steve Jobs when they gave the ----bag his job back, who then bought NeXT back for 430milllion, and so they then scrapped the developement of a powerful PC based OS (which would have been MACerriffic on a PC), there was still hope for a multimedia powerhouse OS called BE which is today, nowhere to be found because of lack of interest by software developers(Steinberger never ported Nuendo over to the BEOS as promised, and others bailed too)so there you have it. I guess the software developers picked their winners and that was that. Definitely a quandry, but I may be putting Win2KPro back in the box to try again now that software has caught up, WinXP seems to be too full of unwanted gimmicks and surprises.

Has anyone here tried Linux on a PowerPC? I'm curious as to how good it is compared to OS 9 or X.

Okay...SuSE, Mandrake, Knopper, and Cheapbytes. Are they all Linux? Are they all the same thing? If not, what's the difference? Is one better than the others? Are these sort of like 98, 98SE, Millenium, 2000, and XP for Windows? Is one "brand" or "version", whatever, better for some things than other ones? I guess this is why Linux isn't real popular in the mainstream ... it's confusing. And what about Red Hat? What's up with that? And exactly where does that little fucking penguin fit in to all of this? LOL
Seriously, I know I'm very ignorant about this so far, and I've been wanting to do more reading-up on it, but life has been hella busy. Are all of these free? Are they huge downloads, or can you get them on CDs? I have extra harddrives, so no problem installing to check it out, but downloading really bites the big one on a 56k modem. So, if anyone could sort-of explain why one or two might be better for me than the others, I'd really appreciate it.

Okay...SuSE, Mandrake, Knopper, and Cheapbytes. Are they all Linux?

They are all revisions of *nix, or components of *nix.

Are they all the same thing?

Not entirely, based on the same core (although one core to the next can vary quite a bit), can handle similar file formats, etc..

If not, what's the difference?

Depends on the distribution. Each is tailored to different uses and has it's strong points and draw backs. And all of them have source code available, so it can be further customized, etc., so you see revisions, of revisions, of revisions, etc.

Is one better than the others?

Depends on your uses.

Are these sort of like 98, 98SE, Millenium, 2000, and XP for Windows?

Nope, because they are entirely free, even the source is free. Thousands apon thousands of people donate their time into developing parts of *nix os/s, there is no central 'group', which is why you see so many 'flavors'.

Is one "brand" or "version", whatever, better for some things than other ones?

Yep, as I stated above.

I guess this is why Linux isn't real popular in the mainstream ... it's confusing.

It's free, it's powerful, and that scares people.

And what about Red Hat? What's up with that?

Yet another flavor of *nix, designed mostly with 'beginners' in mind.

And exactly where does that little fucking penguin fit in to all of this? LOL

Tux? He's just cool ;) I've got my Tux sitting on top of my monitor right now!

Are all of these free?

All revisions of Linux are free, do not let anyone tell you otherwise. Some companies may charge a fee for a manual, or customer support, but the source code, and the actual OS is 100% free.

Are they huge downloads, or can you get them on CDs?

Depends on the revision, anywhere from a single floppy to 1 CD. You can purchase CDs, but it's usually best just to download the ISO and burn your own. You'll get the most up-to-date revision, and it'll only cost you half a days downloading.

So, if anyone could sort-of explain why one or two might be better for me than the others, I'd really appreciate it.

What do you plan on using it for? And what hardware do you got?

W.

Story of Tux the penguin:
http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,42209,00.html

Originally posted by Philly Flex:
Has anyone here tried Linux on a PowerPC? I'm curious as to how good it is compared to OS 9 or X.

Yes ! Those were actually my first Linux experiences - with an old 7300 and [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.yellowdo…"]Yellow Dog Linux[/]="http://www.yellowdo…"]Yellow Dog Linux[/]. A good use for redundant hardware, e.g. setting up an intranet server or a simple websurf machine.
However, MacOS is still more convenient and with less stuff to figure out. But Linux with modern desktops (KDE, GNOME) is on the way I guess. I've only used it so far with old hardware, so it's hard to compare.
Bottomline: Linux on PowerPC = :)

Well, before I literally collapsed at my puter desk last night, I checked-out the SuSE and Mandrake sites. Without bringing them up in separate windows and comparing them side by side, they seem like the same damn thing to me LOL.
They want $40 for the non-pro version of SuSE, and they want %12.50 for part of Mandrake but they then give you a credit for $12.50 so you can get the rest of it (?).
"What do you plan on using it for? And what hardware do you got?"
LOL So far, three peecees, all with different shit in em. They're all AMD systems, and very basic...
*************************************************
1) K6II-500 @ 522
*Epox EP-58MVP3C-M mobo
*256Mb SDRAM
*6Gb HDD
*250w Star PS
*SB 16 ISA sound card
*Appian Jeronimo Pro 16Mb PCI VGA
*Toshiba CDROM
*Mitsumi FDD
*Archtek PCI modem (Intel chipset)
*Belkin ORMF5UOO5 PCI USB card

2) AMD XP1600+ AGOIA @ 1743
*Iwill Xp333 mobo
*256Mb Genuine Samsung PC2700
*10Gb WD HDD
*350w Codegen PS
*On-board CMI8738 audio
*ATI All-In-Wonder 32Mb PCI VGA
*Creative 52x CDROM
*Sony CRX195E1 CDRW
*TEAC FDD
*PC Tel modem

3) AMD XP1600+ AGOIA @ 1743
*ASUS A7V8X mobo ("loaded" model)
*512Mb Genuine Samsung PC2700
*Maxtor 6Y060L0 60Gb HDD
*Allied 400w PS
*On-board Realtek ALC650 audio
*Sapphire ATI Radeon 9000 Pro 64Mb
*CD-W540E CDRW
*Alps FDD
*Archtek modem (Conexant chipset)
*************************************************
All the systems are WELL cooled and vetilated. The second one is my girlfriend's (off limits to my "testing" LOL), but she says if she likes the Linux, she'll switch too.
The peecees are mostly used for surfing, BBs, designing icons & desktops, and online gaming. We do LOTS of downloading.
I'd really like to know how these mentioned Linux versions compare to Lindows. I really like the look of Lindows, and I like the fact that they have the massive "warehouse" of it's applications. You're supposed to pay $99 a year for access to it, but you can download all of them elsewhere on the web for free. Are these Lindows apps compatible with all other versions of Linux? Can all other Linux apps run on Lindows? Is Lindows as good, better, or worse than other Linux versions?
I know that some Windows apps work on Linux, but that most don't. I'm also aware that you can run Linux on a computer that also has Windows on it. If you do that, is it best to have Linux on a separate partition or harddrive?
ALSO, I aquired a mint condition Apple Quadra 840AV, complete with monitor, lazer printer, and scanner, for $30! It's running OS7something, but can be upgraded as far as 8.1 (but I can't find a place to get OS8.1). I also found a program that will allow you to run OSX on it! HOWEVER, I'm thinking that it might be good to run a very light version of Linux on it, due to the fact that it's a 40Hz CPU and has only 32Mb of RAM. Would you recommend Linux for it? If so, how would I go-about selecting/deciding exactly what it needs with very little extra? I assume I could get it for free somewhere (?).
I guess that's about it for now. Again, any help would be appreciated. If you need any further info, please ask and I will answer.

Hmmm ... I just took a look at that Yellow Dog Linux. Maybe that would be good for the Quadra? The site says it supports older Macs, but not the Quadra 840AV specifically. So, I'm going to email them to see if it does. If so, maybe I can get a free version that's basically the same (?). Downloading an OS for it could be real bitch, tho, cuz it's modem is a 14,400! Or, would it be possible to download it on my G4, burn it to disk, then put it on the Quadra? Hmmm ... I wonder if that old CDROM in the Quadra would even read a burned disk ???

Hi SoS,

With that class of machine you might want to take a look here: [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.mac.linu…"]Linux/mac68k[/]="http://www.mac.linu…"]Linux/mac68k[/]
I'm afraid that YDL won't run on a 68k CPU - but they will certainly be able to tell you.
There also a couple of 'thin' floppy-based distributions, but I have no idea if any of them are for 68k processors.

Well, I just spent the last couple of hours researching putting Linux on the Quadra. It's possible, but from what I gather, the best that you can end up with is no sound and your floppy drive won't work. I think it would be more wise to just try to get a copy of Mac OS 8.1. Anybody have a copy? I can't find it anywhere for purchase, and I can't even find it on file sharing sites.
Anyway, now I'm going to look into what I'll need for a peecee. I guess I'll start with the K6II-500 machine. I don't really have a clue what I'm doing, but I guess I'll just jump right in and learn as I go. I kinda get the very basics, so I'm off to start learning and downloading. I'll let you know what happens. See ya ... *POOF*

Start playing with Mandrake or Redhat, this isn't advice as to what to stick with, just what to start you out with and get used to.

As far as the Mac OS, I've got a buddy who might have what you are looking for (I've got an old Quadra as well, and have run Darwin on it from time to time to 'play').

Give me some time, I'll see if I can get in touch with him.

W.

Update on the demudi install:
Second try with a blank hard drive, and not trying to be careful and not save some files/partitions went rather well.

If you follow the order of install events, and do not try to do any thinking, it works ok. :)

I had to re-run base-config, cause if forgot to install anything useful. :)

But, as with any debian dist. you should know linux first. ;(

Well, I checked-out a lot of sites and different versions of Linux and Unix. It all just seems VERY complicated. Indeed, it may be best to try a "pre-configured" version to get my feet wet.
Waldo, that would be cool if you can help me out there. I'd really appreciate that. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

I just installed Yellow Dog on my old Umax S900/200 Mac clone. So far so good. The desktop environments are resource hogs (Gnome being the better of the two IMHO). Running things at the command line has been REALLY fast. Updating software packages was incredible. I'm having a hard time configuring a couple things but with a little research I'll get it.
I'm going to run it as a file/print/intranet server for my mac and my wife's PC.

Well, here's where I'm at...
I decided it wouldn't be wise to try my first Linux install on the little K6II-500 machine. It has an old motherboard, an Appian Jeronimo Pro PCI graphics card, and an ISA sound card. It could be unneeded added headache to try to get the hardware to be recognized.
So, I want to do it on my new peecee, on a separate harddrive. I think I'll probably go ahead and pay the meager fee for Mandrake, so that the whole thing is all bundled together for me. When I looked on the Mandrake site for compatibility, none of my specific hardware was listed. All of my components are basically brand new, so I hope this won't be a problem. Any thoughts on that?

"Brand New" components are not likely to be supported, but it's possible.

Reason: Manufacturers rarely package drivers for Mandrake, let alone any *nix flavor.

Best to play with older hardware first.

W.

you might want to try knoppix, if you have broadband and can dl the iso. It runs from a cd, and does a great job of hardware detection.
You can even install it to a drive.

My apologies in advance for a lengthy post.

Hey... a big thanks to "rocknroll" and "waldo" for driving this topic. Specifically the use of Linux in pro class audio systems and apps. I've been dinking around with Linux for the last couple of years for server use. Of my 6 workstations and laptops, 4 are running some distro of Linux. I've now completely converted my most used workstation to Linux and use it for all my office productivity apps, (graphic creation, website design/code, word processing, spreadsheets, presentations, etc..)

I too had high hopes for BeOS for progressing DAWs based on Intel/AMD architecture, but these guys could not get enough interest to fund development. I do believe they were able to sell off some of their work to be used in proprietary systems somewhere, but I forget where. Now that Linux has progressed beyond usability to just unix engineers, its day for musicians has come. I think Linux has a strong potential future in the studio (home and professional). It is

* stable (perhaps most important in studio scenarios)
* flexible in size, lending itself as a common OS between full DAWs and embedded/module (feature rich like TIVO) components
* open source, making it more easily available to the masses and freedom from prohibitive licensing fees
* I could go on

With that said, I admit that it is difficult to find enough development being done in this area. Of the Music/Recording message boards I frequent, this is the first time someone else has brought up Linux in this context. If you have further direction on where to find more on studio use of Linux, please pass it on. I will do the same.

For those new to Linux, I recommend these sites for documentation and articles to get you up to speed:

* http://www.linuxdoc.org
* http://www.linux.com
* http://www.linuxnewbie.org
* http://www.slashdot.com
* http://

On topic, let's keep this string running strong!

Been busy getting ready for Christmas, but still surfing for Linux info in my spare minutes.
I've been reading a bit about Debian. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it probable that this particular distribution may most likely hold the best future for audio recording? If so, might it be wise for me to use it from the start?
Debian is available for both peecee and Mac. So, obviously, I'm wondering about compatibility. If I were to install Debian on my Mac G4 and my main peecee, does that mean that I can basically network the machines and "share" everything, just as if I were networking 2 Windows machines or 2 Mac machines? Or, would it possibly only give me some limited networking advantages? Or, would I not be able to network them at all? This is something that I hadn't thought-of before, but obviously could have some major advantages in my situation. Any expert info about this would definately be helpful.
Now, about downloading and data selection:
The latest stable release of Debian, 3.Or1., can be purchased for $25, which is on 7 CDs. From what I gather, most people won't use even half of what's on those CDs. Since I'm in no big hurry, I don't really have a problem with downloading what I need. However, it would be stupid to download 7 CDs of data if I only need or want 3 or 4 CDs of it. Can anyone advise me on what I definately need, what I definately don't need, and possibly suggest which optional things I may want to check-out before downloading them? OR ... would it be better for me just to go ahead and get the CD set and sift through it? It would be silly to pay for something that's free unless simplicity and convenience warrant it.
OR ... LOL ... do you simply NOT advise a first time user to go with Debian? Is there an increased, significant difficulty factor with Debian that would make it ultimately wiser for me to go with Mandrake or Red Hat?
In selecting a distribution, I'm very concerned about hardware compatibility. I don't want to find myself in a situation where I'm knee-deep into a distribution only to find that half of my hardware doesn't have compatible drivers yet.
Anyway, those are my current thoughts and questions. Also, I'd previously asked some questions about Lindows ... anyone have any answers? As always, all help given is greatly appreciated ... THANK YOU!

You should be able to download nearly any Linux distribution in a single CD, save your money, download the ISO and burn it. (The Seven CDs they talk about include 'extra' applications, documentation, and source code that you probably never use)

Probable that Debian is the best platform? Not likely, however, a distribution BASED on Debian may possibly hold that moniker in the future.

'If so, might it be wise for me to use it from the start?' Well, they sure as hell wouldn't let you drive an Indy before the learn ya up in a pinto would they? Just use common sense, and start with something simpler before jumping into the deep end.

There is many network drivers and daemons you can run on *nix boxes to build a LAN with. For example, SAMBA can be used to do file/print sharing between *nix and Windows Machines. I believe the Debian distribution comes with all required to do file sharing with MS based file-sharing, and Apple Talk based, as well as NFS, etc.. However '"share" everything' might not be a good term to use, as obviously only compatible data files could be shared, applications could not.

'knee-deep into a distribution only to find that half of my hardware doesn't have compatible drivers yet. '

Simple, investigate BEFORE you install. 'Yet' is a word that should be used lightly, there is tons of hardware that will likely NEVER have *nix drivers compatible with every flavor.

I've looked at Lindows before, and I have no positive comments about it all. I strongly discourage running foreign code on *nix, especially Microsoft software.

W.

My problem is obviously going to be drivers. I've looked at the hardware compatibilities on several distro's sites, and have found that their lists are extremely short. The odds of having a peecee which happens to have everything in it that appears on their lists is a zillion to one shot. I was reading on a Linux BB about a guy who it took a solid week just to get a Radeon 8500 driver installed! Given that the components of my peecee are all relatively new, I'm very concerned. I'll keep on looking until I can make an educated decision.

ya, matching hardware with linux drivers is sometimes a pain.
Demudi is a debian based distribution designed specifically for music/audio. It is supposedly being funded by the EU, although you couldnt tell from the progress being made.

Progress is slow on almost any *nix project, mostly because it's being done for free, by people in their free time.

With hardware compatibility, I do it in the reverse, I look for hardware for *nix, not the other way around.

W.

Debian is maybe a little tuff for the newbie, but shure is a nice distro (use it myself).

Mandrake is very easy, and has a lot of setup tools too configure your system, unlike Debian.

If you havent got the idea of the different distros (redhat, suse etc.):
Linux is the core of the system, the distro then provide diefferent programs they feel is good, and most of them also supply their own programs for system admin etc.

A good place too get help for linux is at http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions

I'm still in the learning process, and still haven't downloaded anything. I'll probably get Mandrake and sort-of duke it out til it works.
I've been reading about Linux-based cluster systems. It seems that the future of ultra high powered computing is going to be clusters as opposed to ultra expensive supercomputers, and Linux is the OS of choice for clusters. Hehe, some Cray systems even use Linux!
Although absolute numbers cannot be accurately calculated due to the fact that it's open-source, Linux is now said to be the #2 used OS, having surpassed Mac OS!
Learning about Linux is definately a good thing to me. It's gaining popularity and usability very quickly, and it's definately not going-away anytime soon. Before I download anything, I'm going to make sure that I can get all of the drivers that I'll need, but I'm hoping that won't be too difficult. I have XP Pro on my new peecee right now, and I hate it.