Two points:

1) Explain what the Y-adaptor does. How is it connected?

2) You should take the BlueTube output to a line input on the mixer, not the hi-Z guitar input (the BlueTube has already presented a high impedance to the guitar).

Boswell, post: 435162, member: 29034 wrote: Two points:

1) Explain what the Y-adaptor does. How is it connected?

2) You should take the BlueTube output to a line input on the mixer, not the hi-Z guitar input (the BlueTube has already presented a high impedance to the guitar).

Thank you for the reply. I've attached a picture showing the Y-adapter. It's 1/4" in and out.
I will change the input from the BlueTube on the mixer, thank you for that.

Attached files

as Bos said, you should run the Blue Tube into a line input on the ZED not a guitar in ... what you are doing now is pre amping the guitar twice ... you also probably have some kind of impeadence mismatch. either that or just skip the Blue Tube ....

also run the amp out of the MONITOR outs not the stereo pair. that way you can use the aux out to drive the camera.

Kurt, not sure what you mean here:

"also run the amp out of the MONITOR outs not the stereo pair. that way you can use the stereo main outs to drive the camera."

I'm running aux out from the zed to the pictured y adapter, to the peavey. Using aux so that I can have that separate mix that I can control levels with using the aux levels on each channel, as well as the main aux volume.

your monitors should be run from the monitor outs not the aux. that's the RCA jacks. this output is controlled by the monitor output level knob giving you control over the volume of your speakers. this way you can just crank your monitor amp (Peavey) all the way up and run the volume from the mixer.

But if I do that, then I lose level control on each channel that aux out gives me. Correct? Or is there a way to use them with monitor out?

no go ahead and run the camera off the aux out like you are already doing. sh*t can the y adapter.

No I'm using main mix out (XLR) to the camcorder. Aux out to peavey to speakers.

that will work too. but the speakers should be run from the monitor out ...

But can the channel aux levels be controlled with monitor out?

no. you use the aux send control to do that.

Exactly, so how can I use monitor out, if I want to be able to control that second mix (aux) IOE, there's no monitor levels control on each channel, only aux, which is why I use aux out to go to the speakers.

Found this in the manual, not sure if it applies:
Record Bus:
A separately switched stereo bus can be routed to from any channel creating a selective recording bus, monitoring bus or stereo clean feed output. You can even route just the effects processor output to this bus and use the mixer as a high end effects unit.

it looks like you need to press the listen button on the guitar channel and then select headphones for the monitor source.

I'll try putting the guitar in the line input and see how it goes. I think I need to keep the aux output though, don't see a way with monitor out..

Having given a cursory glance at this thread, I'm just gonna step in really quick here - it seems as though perhaps our OP would have a better understanding of gain structure if he has an explanation as to the difference between a LINE input and an INSTRUMENT input:

http://www.audiorecording.me/whats-the-difference-between-line-instrument-and-microphone-levels.html

And now I'm backing out just as quickly as I came in. ;)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I gather from your overnight exchange with Kurt is that you want two separate mixes (i.e. individual control of channel levels), each mix having a control of output level. The Aux out gives you a mono mix, which you feed in parallel into both channels of your power amp via the Y-adaptor, and you feed the mixer's main stereo output to the two inputs of the camera.

We've cleared up the business of the BlueTube output having to feed a mixer line input and not a Hi-Z guitar input, but you need to check that you are using a TS jack cable (like a guitar lead) from the unbalanced TS jack output of the BlueTube channel 1 to a line input of mixer channels 1 or 2.

Assuming you are connecting the main outputs of the mixer to the camera's XLR inputs, check on the camera that you have the XLR TERMINAL switches on both channels set to LINE level, the recording operating mode set to M (manual) and not AUTO, and that AUDIO MIX is not selected.

The audio inputs on the camera are the choke-point in a set-up like you're describing. As Boswell recommends, make sure you're not just plowing the camera inputs with entirely too much level coming in.

If you haven't already, use a pair of headphones and appropriate the Solo/AFL/PFL buttons and knobs to confirm you've got a clean signal at the various mix outputs. If you're good at the ZED outputs, you know it's a camera related issue. Your camera should allow you to monitor the incoming audio via headphones as well. The most common mistake, as Boswell points out, is leaving the camera's Audio Input Levels set to AUTO.

Boswell, post: 435204, member: 29034 wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I gather from your overnight exchange with Kurt is that you want two separate mixes (i.e. individual control of channel levels), each mix having a control of output level. The Aux out gives you a mono mix, which you feed in parallel into both channels of your power amp via the Y-adaptor, and you feed the mixer's main stereo output to the two inputs of the camera.

We've cleared up the business of the BlueTube output having to feed a mixer line input and not a Hi-Z guitar input, but you need to check that you are using a TS jack cable (like a guitar lead) from the unbalanced TS jack output of the BlueTube channel 1 to a line input of mixer channels 1 or 2.

Assuming you are connecting the main outputs of the mixer to the camera's XLR inputs, check on the camera that you have the XLR TERMINAL switches on both channels set to LINE level, the recording operating mode set to M (manual) and not AUTO, and that AUDIO MIX is not selected.

Boswell, yes you're correct. I want two separate mixes and the only way (that I know how) to accomplish that is to use the Aux out because each channel has an aux level control, in addition to a main aux level control. This allows me to accomplish another thing which is to turn the mic output volume all the way down so it doesn't come out the speakers, but it does go out the main mix to the camcorder. As far as the type of cable from the bluetube to the mixer, it's a 1/4" guitar cable, just shorter, like a patch cable. Everything is fine on the camcorder as far as volume is concerned. The issue isn't what's going into the camera, it's what's happening in the mixer with the clipping; later on we're going to try going into the line input on the mixer instead of the guitar input to see if that fixes the issue. It makes sense to me.

dvdhawk, if anything, the signal level going into the camcorder is too low, so I have to bump it up using the channel gains on the camcorder, which is ok. The camcorder has decibel meter so I know that the level is correct.

I wonder if I can ditch the Y-adaptor and just go into one channel of the power amp, if the power amp has a mono output to both channels. Will have to check the manual for that...

The XA10 is a nice camera and should be more than capable.

Like everyone else, I'm suspicious of the Y. Can you tell us whether that Y-adaptor is TRS or TS ¼", as well as each of the cables from there to the back of the Peavey, are they TS or TRS cables? (the Peavey can be operated in mono-bridge mode if you're using the binding posts - with or without the banana plugs - rather than the ¼" speaker outputs)

Assuming your gain-structure is OK within the ZED, the Main Outs should put out enough level to crush the camera Audio Inputs.
Have you checked the O/P Level switch on the back of the ZED?

So to be clear, the volume deficiency is in the camera's recording level AND the Ramsa Speakers?
And the volume is low on BOTH (Guitar Mic and mp3 Track) inputs?

You've bypassed both the ZED and the Peavey to compare results using just the Clarus SL-R.
Can you do a simple set-up of ZED Main XLR Outputs -> Peavey Amp -> Ramsa Speakers for comparison?

This is puzzling. Hang in there, you'll find the culprit.

Not knowing the difference between TRS and TS, I just looked it up, and it seems all of my cables are TS (just one black ring), and this includes the male end of the Y-adaptor. Do I need to replace all my cables with TRS instead?
Unclear on "binding posts" I don't have banana plugs, just the 1/4" cables, the Monster cables running from the amp to the speakers are also TS.
The main output level switch on the back of the mixer is not pushed in.
The issue is that when we want to crank up the volume coming out of the Aux output, the mixer clips and cuts out.
I don't know if I can do main xlr out to the peavey amp because I'm not sure if I have XLR to 1/4" cables...
Thanks for all this help, I'm learning a lot :)

MC208, post: 435213, member: 49667 wrote: "...and just go into one channel of the power amp, if the power amp has a mono output to both channels. Will have to check the manual for that...

According to the specs I read, your DPC 1000 power amp is rated at 500 watts ( each channel) at 4 ohms, and features a mono-bridge switch on the rear, with input 1 (or Left) functioning as the mono signal input.

Watch your impedance(s) though...

FWIW

Thanks for the info on the DPC. So with its mono input, then that means I should lose the Y adaptor and just run one cable into that Left input on the DPC, and it will output to both speakers. I know how to watch my back, but I wouldn't know how to watch my impedance (n)

I'd be a little wary about running the amp in bridge mode with your speakers as they are. What you could do instead is move the Y-adaptor to one of the power amp input sockets. You would then run a single TS jack lead from the mixer's Aux output to one of the sockets on the Y-adaptor and a short jumper TS cable from the other adaptor socket to the second amplifier input. No overall electrical difference from what you are currently doing, but it cuts down on clutter and cabling at the mixer front panel.

Ok, I can do that. Going back to cables, where should TRS be used, and where should TS be used in my setup?

From what you have told us so far, your AUX connections out of the mixer are either unbalanced or pseudo-balanced, so you can use TS cables. The mixer main outputs to the camera should be via a pair of XLR-XLR cables. Your mixer microphone inputs will be balanced and must also use XLR-XLR cables. Since (oddly) the jack output of your tube pre-amp is unbalanced, you can use a TS cable from there to a line input jack on the mixer. So, no TRS jack cables needed.

MC208, post: 435217, member: 49667 wrote: … So with its mono input, then that means I should lose the Y adaptor and just run one cable into that Left input on the DPC, and it will output to both speakers…. (n)

Nope. Slow down. That's not quite right.

Since it only has a single ¼" TRS input on each amp channel, you would do much better to follow Boswell's advice. Plug the Y-adaptor into Peavey's CH A and then connect your Aux signal from the ZED into one female of the Y, then use a short ¼" jumper from the remaining female on the Y to the CH B input of the Peavey. Result: mono input, both amp channels driven with same Aux signal.

Peavey's Bridged-Mono Mode doesn't just bridge the input jacks, as you are describing. On this amp it doesn't bridge the inputs at all, it changes the format of the amp completely. Result: mono input, CH A amplifying the positive portion to the output, CH B amplifying the negative portion of the output.

I don't recommend Bridged-Mono, but your amp is capable. Two reasons I don't recommend it, especially in this case - 1) So many things to go and to do wrong 2) It usually degrades the sound noticeably.

If you decide you must try it, make sure the amp is OFF before you engage the mono switch and make the connections.
Disconnect your ¼" speaker cables.
You will need to either use a banana plug, or very carefully use bare wire to the TOP two Red bindings post, connecting the Positive to CH A Out and the Negative to CH B Out.
Plug your ¼" from the Mixer's Aux into Input A of the Peavey,
CH A's "Sensitivity" knob is the only one that will function. Turn it down all the way.
Now, after you've inspected everything and made sure you don't have any shorts between the speaker outs, and everything else is kosher - you can safely turn the amp ON and ease up the volume / sensitivity.

Boswell's method will work. Failing that, I'd much rather see you use just one half of the stereo amp to drive one or both speakers. Two 8Ω Ramsas chained together will result in a 4Ω load and work on one amp channel if you absolutely need two speakers to monitor one guy playing jazz guitar.

The amp's manual gives specs for balanced TRS inputs only, but also shows it's capable of plugging synths (which are normally low-level unbalanced TS) straight into it. So who knows how comprehensive the Peavey manual is?

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm hounding you, but when you say, "The issue is that when we want to crank up the volume coming out of the Aux output, the mixer clips and cuts out." Clips what? Where? The ZED meters? The Peavey "Signal" LEDs? (I've always hated the Peavey DDT circuitry) The meters look cool, but audio is distorted?

There's a mismatch somewhere, we're just trying to figure out where.

dvdhawk, post: 435222, member: 36047 wrote:
Clips what? Where? The ZED meters? The Peavey "Signal" LEDs? (I've always hated the Peavey DDT circuitry) The meters look cool, but audio is distorted?

Yes, the ZED meters go way up and clip well before they should. I just got around to changing the hookups from the Aux out of the ZED to the back of the Peavey, hopefully get a chance to test today. See the attached picture of the back of the amp. Let me know if this looks right based on your suggestion. Also, should the level knobs on the back of the amp be turned all the way to max? I've also changed the guitar from the HiZ to the second channel which is line (MIC is in the first channel)

Attached files

You guys are good!!!! Check out the attached picture and notice where the main Aux level is and where the meters are. I've got all the volume I could want and nowhere near clipping. Sound is *crystal* clear too. Problem solved! The only problem I have now and I don't know if it's a problem or just normal, but I have to turn the input levels on the XLR inputs on the camcorder up pretty high to get a decent signal level going into the camcorder. But that's not too big of a deal.. Anyways, thank you for your help!

Attached files

MC208, post: 435302, member: 49667 wrote: You guys are good!!!! Check out the attached picture and notice where the main Aux level is and where the meters are. I've got all the volume I could want and nowhere near clipping. Sound is *crystal* clear too. Problem solved! The only problem I have now and I don't know if it's a problem or just normal, but I have to turn the input levels on the XLR inputs on the camcorder up pretty high to get a decent signal level going into the camcorder. But that's not too big of a deal.. Anyways, thank you for your help!

Thats what makes RO great...its members who unselfishly give their time and knowledge to help others...(y)

A true problem based learning forum :D

Coming back to this thread, I may need to record guitar and MP3 on separate channels (left and right) Am I correct to assume that the best way to do this would be to just pan full left for one instrument, and pan full right for the other? Microphone I guess will be on the same channel as the MP3 player?

One other question is about the RODE NTG-1 microphone. I'm guessing there probably isn't a way around this, but I find it annoying that the mic picks up more than just the voice. It picks up the pick hitting the guitar strings which isn't the most pleasant sound in the world.

Can you refresh our minds about what you are wanting to achieve?

Is the MP3 a stereo source, pre-recorded? If so, could you arrange things so you listen to the MP3 on headphones while singing and playing guitar (recording these two sources on L and R channels) and then add the MP3 back in separately when mixing? It would mean having a simple sync process so the MP3 could be easily lined up in time for mixing, but that's not too difficult.

No headphones because this is a video production, and because the subject doesn't want to wear headphones.
The source of the MP3, it's actually MIDI, being played through a tablet, so yes it's pre-recorded.
I'm wanting to have the guitar and the mp3 on separate channels as it gets recorded in the camcorder (onto the memory card) So that when I open the video in video editing software, guitar and pre-recorded music are separated which will allow me to mix better in post production. It's difficult to do in live production because of hearing the aux mix that goes to the speakers. That, and the headphone audio from the camcorder isn't all that great... So rather than take a chance and have a bad mix when I go to edit, I Think it would be better just to have them on separate channels

You don't need the MP3 track in stereo, then?

No, don't need stereo sound for MP3 track

I did some tests this weekend and was able to pan the channels left and right and it worked well in the video editing software with separation of the channels.
The only thing I need to decide now is which channel to put the microphone on. I think it should go on the guitar channel considering that the mic picks up the guitar in addition to the voice.