_basso_ wrote: Hi!!

Now i have purchase 2 Microtech Gefell 296 :lol:

And today i was with Markus Wargh and try out some distance,
and space between microphones.

What is your opinion on this recording, it's a finnish psalm i think.

http://home.student.uu.se/sala4035/upp_du_min_sjal_och_sjung.mp3

Sounds very nice. Must be a very fine room--what is the space/church like?

How were these mics placed w/in the room?

johnnyg wrote: Sounds very nice. Must be a very fine room--what is the space/church like?
How were these mics placed w/in the room?

It's a cathedral in lulea sweden, A - B recording
Space is about 13 feet and distance from the organ, hmm.. 52 feet

New version is out with a 5db lift in the top

quite an improvement from the last recording you did with this organ, this sounds very much like what an organ should sound like!

Unfortunatly I still have a feeling that the perspective is a bit low, ie. relative to the cieling height at what height do You have the mikes?

And today i was with Markus Wargh and try out some distance, and space between microphones.

And what where they (please be metric!) 8-)

/ptr

ptr wrote: quite an improvement from the last recording you did with this organ, this sounds very much like what an organ should sound like!

Unfortunatly I still have a feeling that the perspective is a bit low, ie. relative to the cieling height at what height do You have the mikes?

And today i was with Markus Wargh and try out some distance, and space between microphones.

And what where they (please be metric!) 8-)

/ptr

The real space was 2,5 m, i have measure the space we had :oops:
Why!! http://www.mikrofonen.se/
click on the gefell microphone 296 pictures, and scroll down a little.
there yo can see what the Swedish distributor of Gefell
use for example how this mic sounds on a pipeorgan.
He wanted to know the exact space, and equipment.

Space between the (sorry it was) mic 2,5 m, distance from organ 15 m
My stand only reach 4,5 m and the organ is 8-9 m up :cry: :D

I think it's critical that you get as high up as you can with a pipe organ recording.

We often record the organ the Shrine of Czestochowah in Doylestown, PA, and the beauty if the setup is that they have a huge, deep choir loft directly in front of the organ, which is almost by itself bigger than most churches! Thanks to this, we're able to bring in tall stands, place them in the loft, and STILL get some distance from the organ itself, due to the depth and width of the loft directly in front of the organ. We also put tall stands up near the front/altar as ambient/surround mics as high as we can make them, but it's less crictial at that point.

Anytime you get up to the same height as the "speaking" pipes, for a nearly direct line of sight, you'll have more options.

I would never space a main pair of omnis more than 600mm apart if they are the only pair. With larger spacing you do not get a bigger sound stage, you just get an obvious hole in the middle and very audible comb filtering.

With loudspeaker playback the required directional cues are completely satisfied by 400-600mm spacing.

_basso_ wrote: Space between the mic 4 m, distance from organ 15 m
My stand only reach 4,5 m and the organ is 8-9 m up :cry:

Unfortunatly most of the sound that makes up the room passes way above the mikes, You would win alot if You get some higher stands, especially room and refelctions. My Manfrotto High Boys reach about 10 meters, these have been discontinued but if You check with some of the local film equipment suppliers there might still be some availible.. (Anyway lighting stands supplied by many Film Equp. Suppl. are often the way to go...)

And as David says, a bit closer together will improve imageing, anything from the 0.60 meters he indicates up to max 1.5 meters.. I have a habit of puting my stands on each side of the central passage that most Swedish churches has and is seldom more then a meter and a half... (ie. I don agree about the hole in the middle..) - the psacing should be enough to paint a good portrait of the organ!

/ptr

ptr wrote: [quote=_basso_]Space between the mic 4 m, distance from organ 15 m
My stand only reach 4,5 m and the organ is 8-9 m up :cry:

Unfortunatly most of the sound that makes up the room passes way above the mikes, You would win alot if You get some higher stands, especially room and refelctions. My Manfrotto High Boys reach about 10 meters, these have been discontinued but if You check with some of the local film equipment suppliers there might still be some availible.. (Anyway lighting stands supplied by many Film Equp. Suppl. are often the way to go...)

And as David says, a bit closer together will improve imageing, anything from the 0.60 meters he indicates up to max 1.5 meters.. I have a habit of puting my stands on each side of the central passage that most Swedish churches has and is seldom more then a meter and a half... (ie. I don agree about the hole in the middle..) - the psacing should be enough to paint a good portrait of the organ!

/ptr

Hey! you can sell your stands to mee pleeeeeess :lol:
Can't any one sell their stands thats reach 10 m, II'I give almost any thing for it :lol:

Hi basso,
in the current Manfrotto line the most interesting stands are the 053 (slender and light at 2kg, height up to 520cm) and the 269HDU (very sturdy and heavier than 053 at 10kg, height up to 730cm). Both can be extended with additional telescopic arms. 099 (up to 235cm) for 053 and 269, 146 (up to 314cm) for 269 only. So you could get up to 750cm with the 053/099 combo (cheaper and lighter) or 1045cm with 269/146 combo. I don't know the prices but the 053 was about 140€, 099 about 35€ 5 years ago. If you can find no online catalogue, I can scan for you the interesting pages of my catalogue (german).
Regards
Hermann

Some discussion of big mic stands may be found in

• /forum/recording-live-or-studio/current-tall-stands-are-not-too-much
• /forum/recording-live-or-studio/snare-stands-general-drum-hardware-thread

The real space was 2,5 m, i have measure the space we had :oops:
Why!! http://www.mikrofonen.se/
click on the gefell microphone 296 pictures, and scroll down a little.
there yo can see what the Swedish distributor of Gefell
use for example how this mic sounds on a pipeorgan. 8)
------------------
He wanted to know the exact space, and equipment i use on this
recording.

_________________
//Janne

I just ordered a 20ft JTL Black Tower from Adorama for about $125

http://

With some care (and pleteous ballast) I expect to extend it close to 30ft.

I report the first crash!

Rich

Sonarerec wrote: I just ordered a 20ft JTL Black Tower from Adorama for about $125

With some care (and pleteous ballast) I expect to extend it close to 30ft.
Rich

Those JTLs look pretty good, at a price much more attractive than AEA stands. Just how sturdy are these 20 footers? Better than the Shure 15' stands....I hope? (At full length, the Shures can look pretty scary with that bow at the top!)

Lightstands!!

ptr wrote:
Unfortunatly most of the sound that makes up the room passes way above the mikes, You would win alot if You get some higher stands, especially room and refelctions. My Manfrotto High Boys reach about 10 meters, these have been discontinued but if You check with some of the local film equipment suppliers there might still be some availible.. (Anyway lighting stands supplied by many Film Equp. Suppl. are often the way to go...)

/ptr

Yes,yes thank's i have just find 1 pair of Manfrotto stands 808 M
(26,5) feet. from a film equipment supplier in stockholm...
And the best is that they are almost freeee.... :lol:
( US $ 185 ) and ( € 150 )this is for 1 stand
edit: sorry it was for one stand

Re: Lightstands!!

_basso_ wrote: And the best is that they are almost freeee.... :lol:
( US $ 185 ) and ( € 150 )

I suppose that would be the A330?
http://www.manfrotto.com/Jahia/cache/offonce/pid/2587?livid=liv123

Mind sharing where you got it? What store? URL?

I've also been looking at the 269HDU
http://www.manfrotto.com/Jahia/cache/offonce/pid/2529?livid=liv127

Much lighter and 2' shorter. Add an extension like the 099 and your'e up at 10m.

Then again, I don't think height is the only or even the most important parameter. Rarely, if ever, do you see a listener floating around in space some 10m above the floor. After all the ears in the sitting audience is usually no more than 1m above the floor during concert... Surely organ builders know that and voice the instruments accordingly.

Lars

Re: Lightstands!!

larsfarm wrote: [quote=_basso_]And the best is that they are almost freeee.... :lol:
( US $ 185 ) and ( € 150 )

I suppose that would be the A330?
http://www.manfrotto.com/Jahia/cache/offonce/pid/2587?livid=liv123

Mind sharing where you got it? What store? URL?

I've also been looking at the 269HDU
http://www.manfrotto.com/Jahia/cache/offonce/pid/2529?livid=liv127

Much lighter and 2' shorter. Add an extension like the 099 and your'e up at 10m.

Then again, I don't think height is the only or even the most important parameter. Rarely, if ever, do you see a listener floating around in space some 10m above the floor. After all the ears in the sitting audience is usually no more than 1m above the floor during concert... Surely organ builders know that and voice the instruments accordingly.

Lars

But who have built microphones as good as a human ear :shock:

Re: Lightstands!!

_basso_ wrote: [quote=larsfarm]Mind sharing where you got it?[/url]

I know Hofmans sell Manfrotto (http:www. hofmann.se). I got a 004 (3,85m) there a year ago for about 600 SEK on a sale, but they're in Gothenburg. Not Stockholm. Where are the best prices (in Sweden (or Europe))? Where did you get your?

Lars

Re: Lightstands!!

larsfarm wrote: Then again, I don't think height is the only or even the most important parameter. Rarely, if ever, do you see a listener floating around in space some 10m above the floor. After all the ears in the sitting audience is usually no more than 1m above the floor during concert... Surely organ builders know that and voice the instruments accordingly.

There are so many different approaches to voicing that generalities are impossible. The laws of physics are not avoidable, however. Floor refelections. standing waves, etc all enter in. Add HF air absorption, the radiating tendencies of the instrument as influenced by case and balcony design, and you can see that more options are better than few.

If you do not have a reasonably tall stand for a rear gallery instrument you will have no way to know whether your height was optimum. Even tall stands can come down if that is judged prefereable.

Rich

Re: Lightstands!!

Sonarerec wrote: ...more options are better than few.

Of course. I am interested in a tall stand too, but there has to be more to mic placement for recording organ than only getting up high. Mic placement was the original subject of this thread.

L