How about saying "speak ye not about that upon which thy has not any resemblance of a clue." :D

Since you're in the Cleveland area, I'd just tell them "this is the way Telarc does it." That would probably button them up.

Mike

Like I said in another thread, amateur choirs and their directors make me weep. Tom you have infinite patience with these people. I think this is an example of how we have to be politicians and be very careful with what is said.

We tend to make the directors listen to the sound check results first and advise us of their feelings before we proceed. Some of them have demanded that we record in rooms we have recommended strongly against, and have suffered the consequences. Its best to do as much as possible in writing, explain what might happen, in emails, before the gig, so that everyone is "informed" as much as its possible.

As I said, bring a box of tissues.

Funny Mike! :lol:

Hey Tom -

We get all sorts of those kinds of folks in this area (Wash DC). They hire me to come in and record them and then they state things like -

"You should put a pair of omni microphones about halfway or more in the hall. That's how you'll get the best sound."

OR

"We use Shure microphones regularly. I've not heard of Schoeps, so if you're more comfortable using our Shures, they may be a little better..."

and of course

"We really want that "natural" sound - can you mic each player individually?"

In truth, I'm VERY lucky - my regular choirs are VERY accomodating people and they understand that it's their job to sing and my job to record. (That's a rarity amongst choruses though. They usually know EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING...)

In your case, I see only a few solutions.

Solution 1 -

Do what they request - mic each chorus member individually BUT, also record your usual way. (That is if you have that many channels available to you... if not, put the mics there, but don't even hook them up. Sure, hook up as many as you can, but don't try recording 96 channels...:lol: )

Then, play them both back for him. He will hopefully hear the difference and it will be a no-brainer for him.

Solution 2 -

Do your best to explain the physics involved using as dumb of terms as possible. Don't go throwing out "phasing" or "time-alignment" or "comb-filtering" unless you WANT to confuse him. (Sometimes, this can be a good tactic too...)

Hopefully, he'll see that you know what you're talking about and not question it any more.

Solution 3 -

Show him a picture of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir during one of their recording sessions and let him see that they use only around 6 to 8 microphones to record their MASSIVE chorus.

Solution 4 -
Tell him "That's how Telarc does it." (Props to Mike) Then, take a print out of Telarc's web-page that explains their philosophy on mic'ing techniques.

As for the room situation, the only real possibility is to explain to the gentleman that, in ANY recording situation, even close mic'ing situations, the room makes up the tone and timbre of the recording. Even the MTC would sound bad in the Jefferson Memorial.

All I can say is "Good Luck."

Let us know how it turns out.

BTW - I have a quick "funny story."

I play with a choral ensemble frequently whose conductor is a seasoned choral conductor and an excellent soprano soloist. She, however, beats the 3/4 pattern backwards. Instead of:
DOWN-OUT-UP
She beats:
DOWN-IN-UP

Talking about throwing off musicians! The first time I played under her, I felt for sure I wasn't getting hired back - I missed so many entrances just getting used to her beat pattern!

You've GOT to love choral conductors! :!:

J.

Tom, you never stops amazing with these great life stories.

Your story gives me a lot of memorys. Not really about music recording, but about working life. I used to do a bit of consulting and this is exactly the same kind of problem I ran into time after time.

So here comes my very personal interpretation, probably totally off. It is very much about how people behave.

It all starts with expectations. These guys were expecting you to come in as a magician and simply do magic things. They forgot to tell you what they expected. You forgot to tell what your expectations were and what you could do. And since you never really compared these expectations, neither of you are happy.

In this is probably something to be learned. I can only try to give my view.

After a few spectacular failures I did learn to always start an assignment together with the client to find what was expected of me. And making clear what I expected from the client. I did go away before even starting a few assignments as we could not find any common ground.

This is part of what producing is about. The producer should set these things straight. If there is no producer, or you simply do not trust him/her, you have to do it yourself.

For me it starts with preparations. Finding out which guy decides. Asking those questions about what they think themselves about the room. Asking if they have a favourite record they would like to sound similar to. Beeing clear about what you expect to do yourself and what the result will be. It should not take very long time for you to find out these things. Eventually (I think) I learned to ask questions and getting the other guys to talk.

On the day of the recording, just maybe you should have talked out loud and said something about the acoustics of the room. With a bit of experience you can probably guess the result just from standing in the room. Maybe you could seek out different settings, middle of the room tends to be the really difficult place in my (small) recording experience.

Just maybe ask for a short "time out". Calling the "real decision makers" to a small conference and asking for their view right up to that point.

I tend to think that I learn only from my mistakes. One more reason to make many. At least we at the forum likes you.

Gunnar

ghellquist wrote: Tom, you never stops amazing with these great life stories.

Your story gives me a lot of memorys. Not really about music recording, but about working life. I used to do a bit of consulting and this is exactly the same kind of problem I ran into time after time.

So here comes my very personal interpretation, probably totally off. It is very much about how people behave.

It all starts with expectations. These guys were expecting you to come in as a magician and simply do magic things. They forgot to tell you what they expected. You forgot to tell what your expectations were and what you could do. And since you never really compared these expectations, neither of you are happy.

In this is probably something to be learned. I can only try to give my view.

After a few spectacular failures I did learn to always start an assignment together with the client to find what was expected of me. And making clear what I expected from the client. I did go away before even starting a few assignments as we could not find any common ground.

This is part of what producing is about. The producer should set these things straight. If there is no producer, or you simply do not trust him/her, you have to do it yourself.

For me it starts with preparations. Finding out which guy decides. Asking those questions about what they think themselves about the room. Asking if they have a favourite record they would like to sound similar to. Beeing clear about what you expect to do yourself and what the result will be. It should not take very long time for you to find out these things. Eventually (I think) I learned to ask questions and getting the other guys to talk.

On the day of the recording, just maybe you should have talked out loud and said something about the acoustics of the room. With a bit of experience you can probably guess the result just from standing in the room. Maybe you could seek out different settings, middle of the room tends to be the really difficult place in my (small) recording experience.

Just maybe ask for a short "time out". Calling the "real decision makers" to a small conference and asking for their view right up to that point.

I tend to think that I learn only from my mistakes. One more reason to make many. At least we at the forum likes you.

Gunnar

Gunnar -

Do you mind if I ask you a personal question??

What is your age?

I ask for two reasons -

1. You reference your "short" recording experience a lot
2. You are wiser than your age by far, unless of course you're around 200 years old!

Your suggestions are spot on. Even if Tom did do what you mention, your advice here is the very essence of how to do business well. If more people communicated and were honest the way you detail, life would be simple and good.

Cheers (y)

Jeremy

Cucco wrote: [quote=ghellquist]
Gunnar -

Do you mind if I ask you a personal question??

What is your age?

I ask for two reasons -

1. You reference your "short" recording experience a lot
2. You are wiser than your age by far, unless of course you're around 200 years old!

Your suggestions are spot on. Even if Tom did do what you mention, your advice here is the very essence of how to do business well. If more people communicated and were honest the way you detail, life would be simple and good.

Cheers (y)

Jeremy

No problem Cucco. I´m 47. And the reason I might look wise is that I do all the mistakes first.

I´ve been playing trombone at a low amateur level all my life. Early on found that I do not have enough musicianship in me to reach farther. Did play in various rock bands, keyboard, as young and did a bit of local touring (the rest of the band were good, me not). As older mostly amateur big bands, quite a few dance gigs.

As for recording I started about 5 years ago with a minidisc and a sony mic. Quickly went past that. No hurry, but slowly building enough knowledge to have this as a long time side income (if there is such an market).

Professionally I´ve been all over the place, from systems programmer of real-time systems over consultant to computer sales. Currently doing controller duty in a medium sized IT department.

Gunnar

ghellquist wrote: Tom, you never stops amazing with these great life stories.

Your story gives me a lot of memories. Not really about music recording, but about working life. I used to do a bit of consulting and this is exactly the same kind of problem I ran into time after time.

So here comes my very personal interpretation, probably totally off. It is very much about how people behave.

It all starts with expectations. These guys were expecting you to come in as a magician and simply do magic things. They forgot to tell you what they expected. You forgot to tell what your expectations were and what you could do. And since you never really compared these expectations, neither of you are happy.

In this is probably something to be learned. I can only try to give my view.

After a few spectacular failures I did learn to always start an assignment together with the client to find what was expected of me. And making clear what I expected from the client. I did go away before even starting a few assignments as we could not find any common ground.

This is part of what producing is about. The producer should set these things straight. If there is no producer, or you simply do not trust him/her, you have to do it yourself.

For me it starts with preparations. Finding out which guy decides. Asking those questions about what they think themselves about the room. Asking if they have a favorite record they would like to sound similar to. Being clear about what you expect to do yourself and what the result will be. It should not take very long time for you to find out these things. Eventually (I think) I learned to ask questions and getting the other guys to talk.

On the day of the recording, just maybe you should have talked out loud and said something about the acoustics of the room. With a bit of experience you can probably guess the result just from standing in the room. Maybe you could seek out different settings, middle of the room tends to be the really difficult place in my (small) recording experience.

Just maybe ask for a short "time out". Calling the "real decision makers" to a small conference and asking for their view right up to that point.

I tend to think that I learn only from my mistakes. One more reason to make many. At least we at the forum likes you.

Gunnar

Gunnar,

Thanks for all the GREAT suggestions.

And thanks to all for all the help.

We did have a meeting about the recording early on with the two directors but the executive producer (the one that was paying for the sessions) was not there at the meeting.

We went over all the pit falls and information including the proximity to the street and traffic noise, how I was going to mic the ensemble, what there expectations were for the recording, that the piano needed a lot of work (it had not been tuned for two years ). We also went over the strange lack of reverb in a hall , the problem with a slap back in the middle of the dome and the schedule for the recording. We even went over the lunch menu for both days. When I left the preliminary meeting I thought all our ducks were in order and that we were all on the same page. Obviously I was mistaken.

We did the recording as a multitrack as well as a stereo mixdown and I sent both directors the same note when I sent them the CDs of the sessions.

Here is what I told them:

When you get your listening copies of the sessions on Saturday and Sunday, October 15 and 16, 2005

There are also voices at the beginning and ending of the takes that will be taken out before the CD is mastered and sequenced.

I always try to make my clients aware of potential problems and if possible to have them understand what can and cannot be done in a recording situation. I try and not get too technical but still impart all the information to them like the microphone positions and what I am trying to accomplish at the same time I am listening to them tell me what they want from the recording and what their expectations are for the recording. Since I am an engineer with a technical background and they are usually musicians without a real understanding of the technical side of the recording I try and talk to them in musical terms and not engineering terms so they will better understand what I am trying to do. I don't for instance tell them the bit rate or the sampling rate of the recording equipment nor do I tell them the name and model number of every piece of equipment I am using as it just provides an information overload. Those are my decisions anyway and I make those decisions based on what the client is telling me and their needs. What I need from them is the basic information like why they want to do this recording, on what medium it will be released, what the schedule will be for the recording and finally who has the final say in the overall "sound" of the recording. Once these "basic" items are covered we can talk specifics.

One problem that I run into is choir directors who think they know more about recording than I do and who want me to do things that are either physically impossible (like using 96 individual microphones) or they want me to put microphones in places that are invisible from the audience if we are doing a live concert recording session. When you try and explain why this will not work or that the places they have "selected" for the microphones maybe nice from a visual standpoint they will not pick up the choir correctly and the recording maybe less than what they are expecting. Many times I cannot win the battle and am forced to put microphones in less than optimum locations and therefore the recording suffers and then the director is less than pleased with the outcome. If I try and point out that it was THEIR decision as to the microphone placement and that is why the recording sounds the way it does it always seems to fall on deaf ears.

In this case it probably would have been better if the executive producer could have been there for the pre production meeting since he was the one that was paying for the whole production and was the person who could have made some major decisions but chose not to be at the meeting due to a scheduling conflict.

We have an editing session on Saturday and it will be interesting to see what develops.

Again thanks for all the helpful suggestions and insights.

This is a great thread (thanks Tom!) and it's one of the many things l enjoy about this forum. So many things mentioned here ring true for me as well. (Not sure if that's good or bad!)

I am learning, over and over and over again, to get as much as I can in writing ahead of time. (It always seems that the things I DO Get in writing are fine and trouble-free, and the few that I don't have time to write up something complete and thorough often turn into "problem-children.") I try to keep the techno-jargon to a minimum, but I also need to make it clear to all regarding what they're getting for their money. Even when read, signed and accepted by both parties, there will always been some kind of pain and suffering based on misunderstanding something. Hopefully, that's more THEIRS, not mine. Occasionally, there's something unforeseen to both of us, but I try more and more to cover every eventuality.

Couple of recent projects come to mind that are similar to what's been written here....

1. Gospel/Negro Spiritual CD recording project. GREAT bunch of folks, this one fell into my lap in early August. Originally, they were "Desperate" to run into the studio and record a CD in time for Labor Day. Their planning was not good on this.

I'm proud to say I stopped them in their tracks, told them I was not, in any way shape or form, able to meet that request, and furthermore, I convinced them to drop the "Multi-mic" technique they wanted to use (Another potential horror story here too); seperate mics for each of the 30 or so choir members. Thankfully, they listend to my advice and recorded the basic stuff ON LOCATION, "LIVE", Classical-Music-style multitrack, (SATB choir, solists and accomp) in a wonderful, reverberant church, and are still doing a few overdubs to polish a few things here and there. Release date is schdeduled for Dec. 3rd. IMHO, it's one of the best (goodbump stuff!) vocal recordings I've had the pleasure to work on in a long long time.

2. Suburban Church Choir Christmas CD. We started this one back in Dec. 2004, recording a Christmas concert and keeping the best material for possible use this year. This summer, we did three additional, seperate weeknight sessions with each of the smaller music groups: "life-teens,', Folk Singers, and even some BellChime choirs. Spent lots of time in July and August comfortably working on mixes, edits, mastering and finally designing the booklet/Jewel Case. Client is thrilled (He's a good musician as well as choir director and thankfully understands the entire process, from start to finish, including remixes, edting, etc), Since they have a 4000-family membership, they're all but assured of a good selling disc. (Perfect holiday gift for the disposable income crowd.) This is their second release with us; we're delivering the copies Nov 1., the day after Halloween, just in time for the Holiday sales season.

3. Professional "Early Music" group, self-financed CD (with MAJOR funding problems). This one has turned into a total nightmare. Early sessions were problematic for many reasons. Their "Score reader" (hired to "assist"me for the sessions) announced and introduced herself as the "Producer" to all, on the first day, and started telling these professional musicans how to even stand properly. (!!!!!)

For the post production, instead of one person calling the shots, they have given copies out to each of the performers, asking for feedback/advice. Several members of the group have submitted "Editing lists" to my contact for addtional changes. (My contact listens with headphones ONLY and doesn't trust the sound of my studio monitors - Lipinski L-505's - as accurate.)

The violinist should have retired a few years ago; the tone is so bad in places that their EDL's include requests to "soften harsh sound at beast 4, measure 42, etc". They are often asking for specific overtones to be lowered or removed, because they "KNOW" I can do that now with all my digital tools. (That's fine for one or two places, but not 20-30 repairs.)

At the sessions, they did few actual "Takes", and instead did section after section, in smaller and smaller segments, all the while saying "Joe can put this together afterwards." Wellllllll, sometimes yes, sometimes no, but whatever happened to getting it all right in ONE TAKE?!?!?!?

The church was near a busy road, so there are countless places where trucks, cars and buses went past during "Good" takes. I can remove these with reNOVAtor software, but it's best to do it all to the final 2-track mix, and well, with all the changes and re-edits they began asking for, it got insanely tedious making near-final mixes and masters for them. Of course, they're not clear why I need to charge them for this....I think they think this part should just be "Free", totally oblivious of the cost of the software itself, plus my TIME spent doing it after they've updated their changes.

We got down to one or two final changes made for a near-final version of the whole thing, and suddenly they decided to remix about 50% of the tracks (upstream of the dozens and dozens of edits) and found more "mistakes" that they missed the first time around, essentially asking for a whole new project with nearly 12 pages of new stuff. (Did I mention they owed me for almost 40 hrs of work by this point?)

Since I know most of the members of the group from before, and due to a lot of other factors, I went into this with a handshake and NO Production agreement. BIG BIG BIG mistake, and let me warn anyone readying this: Remember Murphy's Law. And if you want to stay friends with your customers/clients, make SURE you get all the fine points in writing ahead of time.

If anyone gets mad or po'd at signing it, they're not worth your professional time (or friendship), and you're better off backing off right away and saving yourself for more enjoyable and rewarding projects. (If I had ONE thing I'd do over again for this particular project: I would have PASSED on it in the first place.)

All this, and the Christmas Concert Season hasn't even started yet! :twisted:

Ho Ho Ho, indeed. :-?

Joe H.

I really feel your pain. Especially with "professional" groups that are under funded. Been there done that. I wish they would get their funding nailed down BEFORE they decide to record the album. My favorite excuse is "well we spent so much money on the CD production that we don't have any money to pay you" "you won't mind waiting a few months for us to pay you will you?"This from a group that put out a CD with a 12 PAGE insert that listed all of their recording credits , a biography and a full page color picture (booklet was 4 color printing) of each of the 4 members of the group plus some candid shots of the recording session. Gee I wonder why they did not have any money left.

Speaking of editing...

Back in the days of tape edits were a little harder to redo and many the time I searched and searched in the wastebasket an on the floor for a missing segment or in some cases a 1/8th inch piece of tape. At least we don't have that nightmare today. The number and complexity of edits has grown in the digital age and lately there are very few classical albums that don't have hundreds of splices. I don't mind doing them but when someone decides AFTER the fact that they want 50 of the edits done over or changed it is less than fun. It is also hard to find someone in the group who speaks for the group especially if it is a chamber ensemble and everyone thinks they are in charge.

Today I finished up the editing and mastering for the Christmas album that started this whole thread. It went very well and the executive producer even brought the lunch. The two choir directors were easy to work with but like many people who really don't understand they wanted edits done in places that would not - did not work. In one instance in the middle of a capella choir's held note. We worked out all the edits and the album is all but done. All I have to do now is add some reverb and finish mastering a couple of the pieces and I will be done. We worked for 9 hours today and I should be able to get the rest done tomorrow. We are doing the duplication and the on CD printing and the executive producer is doing the inserts and covers and assembling them.

It should be in stores by Halloween or slightly thereafter.

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions and stories.

My next project is the mastering of a piano project I recorded recently that is being edited by someone in South America and we are due to get it sometime soon. We were originally going to be doing the editing here but the pianist decided to have it done by someone "familiar" with the music. Go for it!

Hey All,

Great Thread! And... as a choral director myself, steadfastly refuse to come to the defense of the majority of my so-called professional colleagues.
I've often thought about submitting some standard practices for entering the process in an article in the Choral Journal. I just haven't taken the time. I'm by no means an expert, but more of a DIY type personality and have been listening and learning all my life.
If I keep working on this article, would a few experts be willing to put their name and reputation on the line to offer advise in a Q and A type format for an article? These seem to read well and get at a lot of info quickly.
Could we create a sticky on this thread that we could publish a link to for the thousand of ACDA (American Choral Directors Association)members that receive that magazine.
Wouldn't a copy of a Choral Journal article handed to perspective clients solve a lot of these issues?

oh yesssss........I would LOVE to be a part of this. Great idea, indeed! One of my clients is already active in this organization. (And he's one of the GOOD ones. ;-)

Count me in, for sure. Maybe we could have a list of "Do's and Don'ts" as well. Things to prepare ahead of time, etc.

Maybe we could list some pet peeves also, and nicely, diplomatically, address those issues too.

Perhaps a list of "What YOU should do ahead of time to prepare", and another list of "what you should expect from your engineer/recording company."

I second JoeH's recommendations and would be happy to work on it.

Well, now that Halloween is over, the Christmas season is officially upon us. (Let the games begin!)

We've just finished the copies for the suburban church choir, and will be delivering tomorrow (Wed.). Then the Holiday concert season begins in earnest.

I'm sure someone, somewhere reading this is going to get a frantic call from THAT client - you know the type, they'll want you to drop what you're doing, and help him/her create a finished CD master "Just in time" for Christmas. You wont have enough time, and they wont have enough budget, and if you're not careful, you'll end up chasing your own tail right up till the holidays, instead of shopping for your family and loved ones. :roll:

I'm learning to break this habit, but it's been a long struggle, and every now and then, one of those maroons still slips through the cracks and makes me crazy till their project is over. I'm ever hopeful this year is different. :twisted:

What I love is the choir director who comes to me with a CD they recorded of their choir in the auditorium or band room on less than primitive equipment an wants me to make it sound like the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and they want all this done before Thanksgiving so we can sell it in time for Christmas.

Or the choir director who calls me up on the day of the Christmas concert and says " the parent who normally records our stuff is sick and I was wondering if you could come and record the concert tonight?" "Oh and the parent does not charge us I assume that will be the same situation with you?" Sure I just love doing last minute concert recordings and not getting paid for them. When you try and explain to the director that this is a business for you and that last minute recording sessions are hard to pull off and that yes you will have to charge them for the time they get upset. After one of my last minute recording sessions the choir director came up to me and said. "I assume you will be giving us a big discount since we are a school?" and "if you ever do any more recording here we don't like to see the microphones" " it upsets the children and the parents don't like to see them either". Sure Ms. Director I won't use any microphones that you can see because I will not be recording any more concerts here.

Oh well they have their job and I have mine.

In defense most choir directors are great to work with and it is only a few rotten apples that spoil it for everyone. The Christmas CD I just finished was a good example of choir directors who were great to work with and true professionals in every sense of the word.

I just had a guy who gave me a very bad look when I tried to set up a spot mic on piano. I gave him a washed out piano in return.

I don't do it as much nowadays, but whenever I'd get really insulting or rude looks or questions like that, I would then ask them what instrument they play. Then I'd ask them if they'd like some help tuning up, or rehearsing their parts when I'm finished setting up. Another response I like to give (with a huge, semi-moronic smile) is: "Wow, at my age, I'm really flattered that you think I'm so young and inexeperienced enough to need your help. How old do YOU think I am, anyway?"

Either response usually gets me into trouble at best, or a "deer in the headlights" response at worst. :wink:

It's amazing how similar our horror stories are with some of these folks. Time and time again, it's always the ones that don't have their act together that cause the most trouble. It's almost a learned skill how some of those problematic clients find ways to sneak in and wreck havock on our normally well-run operation. (They always find a way, eh?)

But even so, I am convinced that the best talents are also the best clients; it seems to go hand in hand with organizational skills, musical ability, and the true wisdom to know what is a musical issue vs. a technical issue. Same with budget, planning ahead on things like scores, program notes, overdub or editing decisions, etc. The good ones have it all covered, and when they don't, they know the clock is running, and they know why things take as long as they take, and what our time is worth.

Thankfully, I can count on one hand the number of "Diva's" or implacable clients I'd actually had to deal with in the last 25 years or so, and they flush themselves out very quickly anyway. (most people know all about them as well; their reputation often preceeds them)

It is truly a stunning (for them) and rewarding experience (for me) the rare times I have been able to say to a client: "Look, I think you'd really be much happier with someone else. I am unable to give you what you want, and I think the time is right to amicably part ways and let you go elsewhere." I had to do it as recently as this past summer, and it was like a huge cloud removed from overhead. Of course, I didn't get paid for the work in question, but I made them give back all copies of what I DID do, and wished them well in their journey to oblivion, er.....better times, that is! ;-)

This holiday season is no different, we'll all have new horror stories to tell, it just goes with the territory. The best we can do is try to stay alert for trouble, and "spot the looney" before they spot us.

It's always interesting to read horror stories like this.. I had my own two weeks ago when I in good time turned up for what I had been led to belive, a simple a capella choir recording..

Not only did they have the grand piano set up when I came to rigg my stuff, there was two synths thruogh some hugh PA aswell.. But what really rocked my plans was the fact that there was to be a reciter in the midst of things and most of her reading was during the choir singing fortes..

And I go . no, no,. no - You can't have the reciter in the middle of the choir..

And they say; but we did this in concert and it sounded so good with the PA and stuff, and it is this way we rehearsed it.. we can't change now... :cry:

And I tell them that I have to close mike the reciter anyway just to get her to get through, but if she stands in the choir, the singers will overload her mike (A choir of over 100 teens)... And that it will sound like a distorted guitar and had I known what was supposed to record something like that I would have prepared in a whole other way...

But all of this was nothing, compared to 3 minutes past the time set for starting the session, when the composer storms in and starts rearranging stufff and telling people to do thing totaly out of the plan.. Back to square on... And the Scout in me hates to be unprepared, so I gave the man a quick sizing and said either You just concern yourself with the musical stuff or... (I sure he saw the thunder in my eyes...)

It's quite a task balancing a fair female voice against 100 loud mouthed tennagers... Due to the close miking, I got a few nasty pageturns becuase I could not get the reciter to understand that such a "tiny" sound, sounds like a hoard of cattle when very close to a mike... But I belive I can jump between takes to edit all of them out..

This led me to coin a new (?) saying : There are only one type of composers that should be present at a recording session, dead ones.

I got some heartly laughs from the coral director telling her this, she totaly agreed.. I'll be working with her this weekend to and in january recording a Christmas album for next year, so I must be doing something right...

/ptr