That's some extreme processing. Hopefully you didn't mix through all of that.

bouldersound, post: 393389 wrote: That's some extreme processing. Hopefully you didn't mix through all of that.

settings are light (is that a thing?)

redbort, post: 393388 wrote: So I just finished mixing my record and am gonna start shopping around to get it mastered.

I've currently got this chain on the end of my mix
Waves NLS > EQ for mids > EQ for highs > Waves NLS > Cytomic Glue Compressor >Audio Damage ADverb >
MidSide EQ > Waves NLS > SSL Compressor > Waves L2 Ultramaximizer

chew me out guys,

Three instances of summing emulation, three EQ's, two compressors, a reverb, a limiter.

I can't even imagine it. IMO? None of it should be on the 2-bus. Maybe one instance of the NLS. Everything else should be handled in the mix. I can certainly argue the odd instance of an EQ on a mix here or there - I'm not immune to putting a compressor on the bus (although that compressor is engaged and mixed into - rarely ever added later).

I'd need to have the logic for all of that explained... Are these set and engaged before starting the mix? Added in the middle? Afterward? In any case, I really can't imagine all of that.

Didn't DL the MP3 -- (80+MB...?) A minute or two would be much more helpful.

all that stuff got added after the first iteration of the mix (about two weeks ago) but before a bunch of tweaks and comments on the mix were made.
I was looking for mix feedback but everyone got held up on listening to unmastered tracks so I got more comments on those elements :shrug: ?

the first set of eq got my mix to match typical eq curves of other music... i used two so I could use 10 bands parametric total.
the mix was dry to start off with so placing it in a 'room' with the reverb gave a good feeling.
the MSEQ is only a low cut on the side frequencies.
and the two compressors are both very light, one for the mix, and the 2nd to glue in the reverb
the three NLS instances just glued things and made the mix seem more present at every step
Ultramaximizer to add 2dB of gain at the end... would have liked an extra 5dB, but it sounded too crunchy.

is it common to ask a mastering engineer to add reverb?
is it uncommon for there to be more then one stage of compression?

sample with that chain PreMaster with chain.mp3
sample without the chain PreMaster No chain.mp3
2 mins each, 5MB.

I'm starting to think that I don't need to do any of that before mastering, and just let the mastering engineer do all that.

[QUOTE=I'm starting to think that I don't need to do any of that before mastering, and just let the mastering engineer do all that.

i think thats the way to go, as a rec/mix dude i don't have the insane monitoring, room, or gear that a mastering guy would have. the more put on the bus on the mix, the less room the mastering engineer has to do their thing. thats what your paying them for, to process as needed or do nothing at all.

you'll have better luck w/ people hearing/assessing your material if you open a free soundcloud account, and upload the song in the format you intend to send into the mastering house. it's tough to judge when it has been run thru data compression.

i'm still researching mastering, but they do alot more than eq/compress/limit. I don't claim to have an undersatnding of all this but i'll throw out some 411 from the book i'm studying. They will employ EAN and ISRC codes. Offer opinions on song order, and song spacing. Compensate for overall balance issues (the stuff you didn't hear on your room). Dither. Decide on the heads/tails of a song, maybe there is a tasty fret niose that an editor may cut, but actually helps the song. Eq/compress/limit. They may do alot more, or less. I think it's cool to send it to someone else, cuz by the time i finish a mix "i can't make it better, it's the best i can do".

I wouldn't shrug at any mix comments, a better mix is a better master. The only time i use the plethora of waves plug-insat the studio is, to either bring up the level of basic tracks for the clients when they want a disc of the session, Or when i know they are not going to master the product, and i use an eq,compressor,limiter. preferably in a different room.

kmetal, post: 393396 wrote: i think thats the way to go, as a rec/mix dude i don't have the insane monitoring, room, or gear that a mastering guy would have. the more put on the bus on the mix, the less room the mastering engineer has to do their thing. thats what your paying them for, to process as needed or do nothing at all.

simple advice is always the best advice. thanks.

kmetal, post: 393396 wrote: you'll have better luck w/ people hearing/assessing your material if you open a free soundcloud account, and upload the song in the format you intend to send into the mastering house. it's tough to judge when it has been run thru data compression.

online streaming isn't going to be any better then 320kbps mp3. and I don't want to share online lossless versions of the music just yet.... ya know what I mean.

kmetal, post: 393396 wrote: They will employ EAN and ISRC codes. Offer opinions on song order, and song spacing. Decide on the heads/tails of a song, maybe there is a tasty fret niose that an editor may cut, but actually helps the song.

I'm not looking for any of these services.
it's only 3 tracks and the head/tails of songs are already mixed in to desire. pretty married to the track order as well.

kmetal, post: 393396 wrote: Compensate for overall balance issues (the stuff you didn't hear on your room). Dither. Eq/compress/limit. They may do alot more, or less. I think it's cool to send it to someone else, cuz by the time i finish a mix "i can't make it better, it's the best i can do".

this is the stuff that I need from a mastering engineer.

kmetal, post: 393396 wrote: I wouldn't shrug at any mix comments, a better mix is a better master.

I'm shruggin because peoples comments were on mastering elements, and not on mixing elements... which is why i've got this huge ass chain on my master bus at end of my mix. hence the nature of this thread... how of much of that should I even consider sending to the mastering engineer? none of it, HA!

there is a mix forum here that you can get all the advice you want, but mixing and mastering are different animals, so i'd say just post the same song up on the mix forum, be patient, and listen to what people say. Data compression does ugly things, so copyright your stuff, and be full fidelity, so accurate feedback can be given.

-kyle

ps. to the disdain of alot of people concerned, people are more likely to rip off an mp3 than a .wav. They're not called .wav players right? worry not. if anything they'll be turned off by the extra 30 secs it takes to stream a wav, or the additional hd space it takes.

redbort, post: 393394 wrote: the first set of eq got my mix to match typical eq curves of other music... i used two so I could use 10 bands parametric total.

(A) The mix is completely bereft of high end -- (B) The 'chain' mix isn't much better - even after ten(?!??!?) bands of parametric EQ. I'm assuming as monitoring/listening issue of rather impressive proportions. Except for just a tiny bit of 'presence' (it's hard to even call it 'presence') in the overheads, I wouldn't even know I had tweeters. And if you're visually trying to "match the spectrum" then this is a prime example on why that fails somewhere near 100% of the time. Good sounding mixes (actually, most normal broadband sounds in general) "just so happen" to have a 1/f curve. Trying to "force" a mix to have a 1/f curve --- well, it usually just doesn't work out.

the mix was dry to start off with so placing it in a 'room' with the reverb gave a good feeling.

Listening further in, it's probably the reverb where that 'presence' is coming from.

the MSEQ is only a low cut on the side frequencies. and the two compressors are both very light, one for the mix, and the 2nd to glue in the reverb. the three NLS instances just glued things and made the mix seem more present at every step. Ultramaximizer to add 2dB of gain at the end... would have liked an extra 5dB, but it sounded too crunchy.

I think (and I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way) you have an extremely serious calibration issue with your monitoring chain, a severely mistreated space, or both.

Nothing - N-O-T-H-I-N-G - will ever approach the importance of your monitoring chain and the space those speakers are in. Every single sonic decision you will make is based on how well those monitors translate that signal to your brain (via your ears). I think you need to go back to "step one" and figure out what's going on there before you dot another 'i' Bob Cratchit.

is it common to ask a mastering engineer to add reverb?

In nearly 20 years of doing this, I don't think I've ever been asked. Although I have done it a few times for odd reasons.

is it uncommon for there to be more then one stage of compression?

During the mastering phase? Not necessarily -- On a mix bus? I would submit a resounding "Absolutely."

I'm starting to think that I don't need to do any of that before mastering, and just let the mastering engineer do all that.

There is no doubt that you should be 100% happy with the mix before the mastering engineer gets his hands on it. But your mix doesn't need any of that -- It needs a complete re-start.

Again, I'm really not trying to sound hopeless and discouraging - But there's some pretty serious work that needs to be done here -- And it's long before the mix bus. It could be long before the mix (but without knowing how extensive and what processing was going into the individual tracks, I couldn't even hazard a guess). There's no doubt though, that there's a severe translation issue in there somewhere...

Re:
2012-09-10 EP Final Mix.mp3

Sounds like all the mids are sucked out and some really bad plug-in compression is used too much, to me. Its really edgy too. Converters sound like rash but I'm so spoiled.
But, the intro was kind of exciting, especially when the kick came in. I can feel what you are doing, its just not translating out too well with your mix. Hope you take all this well and chime in with a new mix.

I downloaded this but won't again. Use dropbox so we don't have to take chances on downloading please.

thought it was too good to be true (being done mixing)
back to the mixing stage then. and try to get the top end and presence in the mix without boosting the highs after the fact.

I'm not sure it's completely my monitoring system that's to blame but more of a stylized tone that I had aimed for...

Massive Mastering, post: 393399 wrote: Again, I'm really not trying to sound hopeless and discouraging - But there's some pretty serious work that needs to be done here -- .

i'd rather hear it then get a false pat on the back.

so thanks.

Do you ever listen to music in the headphones? if yes try adjusting balances in them, since its sounds like your monitors are confusing you a bit. If you have a direction for mastering engineer like a reference file or an artist that your song would like to be in the genre of that would be great. Give mastering engineer unprocessed mix and your mix with plug-insto check out

I ended up going back and tweaking the mix a bit with the advice of this thread.
then brought it in to get mastered with NOTHING on the final chain. I also brought in my "mini mastering" (as he called it) as a reference point.
I have to say I was blown away by the quality of the outcome.
I didn't get a full explanation of everything he did (I guess they don't want to share all their secrets)
but i know he did some expanding, used 3 different eqs (one for very narrow band corrections, one that used very wide bands to balance the mix, and a third for magic), 3 compressors (maybe one of these was set as the expander) and then at the end he trimmed 0.5db with the limiting, hardly any he said.
One thing I saw that he was using was a loudness meter weighted to our listening contour lines. I'm used to just checking the RMS vs Peak, but even if he got the same RMS as me, his master clearly sounds MUCH louder, an emphasis on the mids?

here's what it sounds like now: [="http://neargrey.bandcamp.com/"]Bandcamp - Near Grey[/]="http://neargrey.ban…"]Bandcamp - Near Grey[/]

got it mastered [[url=http://="http://www.lelabmas…"]at LeLab Mastering with Marc-Olivier Bouchard,[/]="http://www.lelabmas…"]at LeLab Mastering with Marc-Olivier Bouchard,[/] it was probably the nicest sounding room I've ever been in.

Next time I track and mix I'm going to know a few mistakes to avoid.