This depends on the value of "it".
For any given "it" the worth or value of something in comparison to "it" can be derived a number of ways, depending on the school of economics you subscribe to.
I personally tend to agree with Adam Smith.

“a thing has value only when and if it serves some direct human use or can be exchanged for something else that has value.” (Adam Smith)

What do you want to do? Then we can discuss value.

i want to record music in the best quality and have lots of effects to apply in short would i find it worth the money if i like what audacity can do, can it do more better? I dont know about pro tools never used it

Mr. Marx talked about use and exchange value as well in his incredibly drab Capitalism. Read it, love it, burn it as the understanding that your patriotism is for a corrupt system of economics based on exploitation and alienation festers inside of your slow-beating heart.

Aside, Pro Tools is the industry standard. It's a DAW. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_audio_workstation. Audacity can hardly be defined as such, more of a waveform editor and recorder.

StephenMC wrote: Mr. Marx talked about use and exchange value as well in his incredibly drab Capitalism. Read it, love it, burn it as the understanding that your patriotism is for a corrupt system of economics based on exploitation and alienation festers inside of your slow-beating heart.

Woah, Nelly. :P
Just want to say that the slower an animals heart beats the longer it lives.
Also, ripped this from the same place I got the quote. :)

One guy typed;
"“The natural world has no intrinsic value or value irrespective of its usefulness to humans; rather, “a thing has value only when and if it serves some direct human use or can be exchanged for something else that has value.” (Adam Smith)”"

Then another guy typed;
"‘I think you are confusing Adam Smith’s statements about exchange value (the ratio by which something exchanges for another) with something that may have a value (aesthetic, utility, beauty, symmetry, elegance, or whatever) in itself.

Adam Smith was a moral philospher. His other book, The Theory of Moral Sentiments (1759) would correct your impression of his ideas, which are not often represented well by vulgar modern interpretations by those who write about today’."

Which is funny. To me at least.

PT (and all of the other commercial DAW programs) can do a lot more than Audacity. But they don't do the things that Audacity does much better than Audacity. So, as Greener says, it all depends on which features you want.

However, since you will be getting PT with your interface you should take advantage to the one big advantage that PT has over other software - the amount of support available. There are all kinds of tutorials, DVDs, and books available to teach you how to use it. My guess is that once you learn of the features, you won't go back to Audacity. (You may want to go on to other commercial software after you confront the pluses and minuses of PT, but PT is probably a good next step for you.)

Funny to me, too, Greener. Intrisic value is always interesting. Really, postmodern thought stems from the awareness of a lack of intrisic value.

I'm not a communist. I think any economic system is going to suck since humans will always tend to suck.

I agree with Bob, too. rockdude, if you're looking at the M-Box, and it's within your price range and such, go with it. It's going to be a decent interface and learning to use it and Pro Tools will be a strong start in any career you're looking for, whether it's songwriting or engineering or performing.

"I think any economic system is going to suck since humans will always tend to suck. "

Humans do not suck.
Attitude sucks.
Humans tolerate poor attitude.
Governmental bodies that give 15bil of free money to humans with poor attitudes...sucks:)

So you want to kill everybody with a bad attitude?

Such radicalism, Space.

If i recall correctly, and I do, I was adding a perspective to the outlook of the human condition in a more positive fashion.

Holidays do tend to pull like emotional gravity on some people:)

So you want to get rid of holidays, too?

Poor Santa. He was jollier than you could ever be.

Pro Tools may still be the industry standard but that certainly doesn't mean that just because you start using it your recordings will sound like Judas Priest.

There are many other factors involved in determining the final outcome of a recording. There are also plenty of other DAW's that do a great job when used with good hardware. And you won't be tied into Digidesigns own set of rules.

You have to consider as well that you are talking about ProTools LE. As in, Limited Edition. This is no comparison to a complete $30+G ProTools HD3 system complete with I/O, Preamps of your choice and an Icon console. The Preamps on the Mbox are alright to start with. For the average home user it's more than adequate. I'd say the big plus is that you're not using cracked software with all the inherent risks.

the mBox has no inherent aesthetic value...

Plus Pro Tools is just as buggy as anything else.

Alright, I think the piss has been taken. At least I'm laughing so it's probably time to get back on topic.

Rockdude, what do you want to record? Singing, guitars, drums, classical... What?

Are you a home producer with no intention of ever making music with other people or do you want to capture live jamb sessions and try and make albums for bands?

What's the deal?

The more you talk the more people can suggest how to help hopefully.

I'm told Pro Tools is expensive and "PROPRIETARY." Meaning you must use their "equipment" and software - choices are limited.

My understanding is that you'd be better off looking elsewhere. This comes from peeps who've compared primarily PTs to Nuendo and prefer Nuendo.

Personally I use Steinberg's Cubase, and like it.

For me, the fact that PT is integrated/tied to digi hardware doesn't end the discussion - it starts it. If you don't like the digi hardware or like something else better it is a deal breaker. But if you like the hardware (as rockdude does) you really have to look deeper at the features before making a decision.

I agree that the "industry standard" argument is weak on its own. But since PT has been around the longest there are far more learning resources for PT than any other platform. Go to Amazon and do a search on Pro Tools and Nuendo. 2-3 tutorial books on Nuendo. 30-40 books on PT. Same kind of ratios for free tutorials on YouTube, etc. This may not be important to some people, but for others it can be crucial.

For me the learning materials were the deciding factor. I have a busy day job and no one locally who could give me much help. I wanted to get up and running quickly. The hardware software combination was a bit more expensive than other configurations, but it was basically plug and play. I'm satisfied that it was a good decision at the time and it is working well for me now.

However, because of a number of features, I wouldn't go with PT if I were going to do a major upgrade today. I have found the constraints on the number of inputs to be somewhat confining. (Not really bad, but I'd go for something a bit bigger if I was making the choice right now, and I'm not in the market for a full blown HD system.) The two-stage bounce and burn system is big workflow kludge for the kinds of things I do. I like some of the various display options in Samplitude better, etc., etc.

Again, all of these platforms have advantages and disadvantages and it doesn't make sense to tell someone "you'd be better off" with a particular system without knowing everything about them.

mbox is fine.....

I have gotten great results and still use the mbox. I spent lots on outboard because the mbox/protools was more than adequate. I don't follow the crowd and prove my own theories. Not surprisingly, if you don't think for yourself, you end up just like all the others.

dead?

So using protools/mbox is not following the crowd?

I really think it's a good idea not to take any blanket statements seriously. "ProTools is bad" is obviously not an informed opinion. I like ProTools but I also like Cubase. Mind you I've been using Cubase forever. Pick a DAW and stick with it. Chances are you'll eventually get good at using it. You're getting an MBox? Great! Make use of it and leave it at that. You may eventually want to buy some better preamps. Otherwise, it's a first step of many.

mbox is fine.....

Life is all about choices...make it and make the best of it and learn the ins and outs. Protools is my third platform.

Gibson or Fender?
Betty or Veronica?

Gibson and both the girls.

BobRogers wrote: For me, the fact that PT is integrated/tied to digi hardware doesn't end the discussion - it starts it. If you don't like the digi hardware or like something else better it is a deal breaker. But if you like the hardware (as rockdude does) you really have to look deeper at the features before making a decision.

I agree that the "industry standard" argument is weak on its own. But since PT has been around the longest there are far more learning resources for PT than any other platform. Go to Amazon and do a search on Pro Tools and Nuendo. 2-3 tutorial books on Nuendo. 30-40 books on PT. Same kind of ratios for free tutorials on YouTube, etc. This may not be important to some people, but for others it can be crucial.

For me the learning materials were the deciding factor. I have a busy day job and no one locally who could give me much help. I wanted to get up and running quickly. The hardware software combination was a bit more expensive than other configurations, but it was basically plug and play. I'm satisfied that it was a good decision at the time and it is working well for me now.

However, because of a number of features, I wouldn't go with PT if I were going to do a major upgrade today. I have found the constraints on the number of inputs to be somewhat confining. (Not really bad, but I'd go for something a bit bigger if I was making the choice right now, and I'm not in the market for a full blown HD system.) The two-stage bounce and burn system is big workflow kludge for the kinds of things I do. I like some of the various display options in Samplitude better, etc., etc.

Again, all of these platforms have advantages and disadvantages and it doesn't make sense to tell someone "you'd be better off" with a particular system without knowing everything about them.

Great advise Bob,

I'm about to take a big upgrade leap so I'll ask this. I'm using a ten year old Pro Tools 24 mix ++ and love PT. Its smart designed and deadly stable on my Mac 9600. I'm used to PT and made my investment back the first year I bought the rig ten years back. IMHO, PT opens doors.

Although I fricken love PT, I'm not bent on sticking with it for one reason, plugins don't get me too excited.

That being said,

After ten years passing and the baby's are giving time to get back into things, I'm upgrading.

Based on your post here. If you were going to do a major upgrade like me... what would you do now?

I don't need to buy a new Mac. I have 4 Core 2 quad PC's sitting in my studio unused. I have many pre amps, fine mics, great eq's and comps. What should I do?

haha hey guys yea i have not responded at all cuz it seemed the topic had gotten off topic. But anyways here is the deal. I have been recording music for a while with keyboard directly in to PC with 1/4" to 1/8" wire using Audacity for the most part. It's all been great so far, it's amazing what you can do with just audacity and a keyboard/PC. I have been making instrumentals but more importantly full songs that once ready wanted to add vocals to, thats where the Mbox/Pro tools come in. I actually was not in the boat to buy pro tools I was just looking for a BARGIN audio interface for pretty much recroding vocals, so i came to this Mbox which happen to come with pro tools thru futher reasearch it seemed that with this interface i was more so payinng for pro tools and i could get other interfaces for cheaper with more features(not that i needed them) thats why im asking about pro tools. But once i learned about PT i seen that it might be a nice software to have to add to audacity. But what is most important is that i have the best cheap(cuz im trying to do the best stuff with the least stuff) audio interface for recording vocals. That so far is a losing battle cuz everyone has differnt opinions about this question. So is the Mbox 2 mini good for that? and is the pro tools just a nice plus to that? Also about that needing the Interface to use pro tools, so to record my keyboard into pro tools do i just need my interface plugged in or do i need my keyboard plugged into the interface to record? cuz i dont mind recording my keyboard directly to PC input sounds great cuz then id have to buy another wire 1/4" to 1/4".

You can plug your keys into the line in of the mbox. You could also use the midi features of ProTools if you're keys have USB connectivity or you have a separate midi interface. Which means buying a midi cable. I'm not sure what virtual instruments come with ProTools LE 7(8 is a free download I think) but the software package is generally pretty good with the Mbox.

There are othe interfaces out there with integrated midi ports and reasonable and at the least comparable software packages. It's a good idea to shop around. Cubase LE is pretty skookum too.

357mag
I have been working with PT TDM and HD since 1999 and I don´t agree with you.
Define buggy....please.

audiokid-

Can't really say what you should do. Your situation is quite different from mine - for one thing, you have established something of a commercial reputation using PT. My operation is geared mostly toward my own musical projects and does not have to be as flexible. Which PT system are you considering?

If I had to upgrade right now, I think I'd go with Samplitude and a Mackie Onyx 1200F. I like the look of Samplitude's interface, and I prefer several of the workflow features like the ability to burn CDs on the fly. The Mackie has the I/O options that I'm looking for.

I'm at the other end of the childcare spectrum with my daughter's college bills taking precedence over audio purchases. Right now, my PT LE system is running fine and not putting any constraints on my work that I'm willing to spend a lot of money to break. Three years from now, I'll probably be thinking about this more carefully.

audiokid,

What do you want to do?

BOb, a digi 003 system in the right hands can provide excellent results.
I do agree with you.

I have been mastering stuff done in several different systems from every part of my country and there are a few folks( which are very talented )and cut their mixes under 002 and 003 systems providing excellent results.

When I state that you could "end up like all the others" I mean that some people are taught a skill and use only what they were taught and never question the reasoning. That is not growth because even a caveman can do it..... I want to challenge a theory to see if I can expand on it. And I have.

Greener wrote: audiokid,

What do you want to do?

Good question,
8 in's is plenty. I don't want to hear what I've been hearing from my digi 888 24 converter. A subtle digital zzz.

I'm going back and forth on swtiching to PC based more and more. I can't make up my mind really. I suppose if I wanted my session files to be studio friendly PT is the only way to go. Since I have 4 core 2 PC ready to be used, adding a high end ADDA would be the most cost effective way to go.

Because I've always had the impression that PC based is somewhat more home studio ( I know, I know) I don't know what to expect from something I know nothing about. I'm hoping if I go with Cubase or Sonar, with a top end interface, it should sound equivalent to a PTHD system. I have very good hardware and from my past experience, plugins aren't ranked something that added to the sound quality.
Although PT is very intelligent, its also somewhat of a status symbol that costs a big dollar for the name.

projects: an acoustic album, a children's album. electronic with major sequencing and the start of what ever evolves with the new audioimpressions DVZ setup which is all PC based right now. So, really very diverse styles.

I want pristine quality and digital editing that all hooks up to Midi/USB etc for the sequencing stuff.

http://www.prismsound.com/music_recording/products_subs/ada8xr/ada8xr_home.php

mmmmmm

spot on, thanks!

Protools LE with an Mbox (or m-powered) gives you a very average performing audio interface with a very restricted software environment (32 tracks only until the recent PTLE 8, which gives 48 tracks, the same as the free with mixers Cubase LE, whoop-tee-doo). It has no plugin delay compensation (every other DAW has had this for at least 5 years).

Protools HD - the 'industry' standard. Is it worth it ?? Technically speaking, NO. You could get a Logic, or Nuendo studio with much better audio interfaces than Digidesign's hardware for significantly less. However, you do pro business without a protools rig and you are really putting yourself out on a limb. Everyone believes the 'industry' standard hype and may not do business with you, even though your Logic studio has better MIDI, more functionality and the Apogee interfaces or whatever, provide better quality then Digi 192s or whatever Digi interface. Also, be prepared to pay 50% more for any plugins in TDM format compared to native VST or AU plugins, or about $3000 more for a Waves bundle etc. Everything associated with Protools, even 3rd party plugs, costs more money for delivering the same product as for other DAWs.

For the home recordist, I would recommend Cubase, Sonar, Logic, Samplitude or Digital Performer over Pro Tools. All of these have better MIDI, do not tie you to proprietary (and very average) hardware, no track limits, all have plugin delay compensation and most have better GUIs than the drab circa 1994 look that Protools has.

If I were running a studio, I would personally prefer to get a Nuendo or Logic studio, but reality dictates that if I don't have at least one PT rig, then I will be in foreclosure pretty soon. So I guess the value there is more.

Is the PT upgrade worth it?

Hey! On the same topic, but slightly different, is the PT8 upgrade worth it (upgrade from the PT7)? Anybody done it?

Here is a good review I found, but still personal experience is always better....
http://general-sequencer.digidesign.en.audiofanzine.com/products/reviews/index,idproduit,135507,mao,pro_tools_8.html

DAW software I think really depends on your work flow. I actually like working in PT. I used Samplitude for years, but made the switch to Pro Tools recently.

M-Powered and LE do have plug in latency compensation, it's just not automatic. You have to ctrl-click on the db indicator to get it to tell you the latency of the channel, and then add a delay compensator to the path.

RTAS plug ins are very expensive compared to VST, but you get what you pay for. If you want to use VST inside Pro Tools you can get a VST -> RTAS wrapper.

The MIDI capabilities are way behind everyone else in 7.4, but 8.0 may be better. I don't use much MIDI so it doesn't really bother me.

Is Pro Tools worth it

It depends what you are trying to do. If you are interested in being a singer song writer and only need one mic preamp this is a good start.

If however your looking into recording a live band I find that there is more bang for the buck in using Digital Performer. With pro tools you need to purchace Avid/ Pro tools hardware to record into it, which they tend to over price. It also has a limit of 32 tracks in pro tools Le. In addition with something like the 002 or 003 you have a limited number of inputs. In DP and alot of the other programs out there you can use anyone's hardware with anyone's interefaces (what get the audio from the preamps/mixer into the computer). DP offers alot more tracks with great interfaces with most of them containg preamps, or you can use there 2408 intereface which allows you to use any mixers or preamps that can send out TDIF or Adat (light pipe) connections allowing you to use any combination of your choices of hardware.
I hope this reply was helpful :D

Re: Is Pro Tools worth it

sweeterstudios wrote: With pro tools you need to purchase Avid/ Pro tools hardware to record into it, which they tend to over price.

Or M-Audio with PT M-Powered. These interfaces are very reasonably priced, but then you do have to shell out some dough for the software. Other interfaces in the same price range come with adequate software, but they do not have all the features that Pro Tools encompasses.

Another upgrade option is to get an M-Audio interface with a light pipe input and use a preamp or mixer with a light pipe output to extend your channel count and allow you to use a wider range of pre amps.

I agree that PT does limit your choices, but they are not as limited or as expensive as some people believe.