use [[url=http://[/URL]="http://solutions.3m…"]3M Super 77. [/]="http://solutions.3m…"]3M Super 77. [/]

you will never get that sh*t off the walls without scraping it but it will never fall off either.

Thanks Kyle and Kurt,

(Kyle) I actually got it down to around 5-8db problems in the end, by the 30db swings you mention (ouch), I am happy then I got even that far!. I am going to remeasure today, following moving the speakers on their sides yesterday. Sticking stuff on walls, yeah, well.. the tape overall, as far as the foam goes, has stuck well to the walls, the foam comes off the tape. The T-Fusers however, they of course were pulling themselves off the walls and keeping the tape. Part of that issue originally was too much fiberglass put in the back, rectified ones, for the most part, have stayed on since I fixed them.

I am waiting for Sweetwater to get back to me with a solution. They are very good so far in my experience, this is only the second time I have had any issues (with anything), and first time was handled very satisfactorily.

(Kurt) My rep actually pointed me to 3M velcro solutions as a possible idea, I am not paying to solve this though, Sweetwater, or Auralex are.

And yes Kyle, it was a major upgrade, colour me overwhelmed a little still, but, I'll get there :D.

Cheers,

Tony

SSL X-Patch day today. Following successfully? tuning the Event Opals I took to the task of routing stuff today. I can feel a question and answer session coming for Chris (audiokid). I have hooked up a rudimentary setup using the X-patch. I have 8 out to SSL from the Orion > 1-8 SSL, 8 back into the Orion SSL 9-16. I have hooked into the "mastering chain, EQ DBX Quantum and Eventide. All back into the SSL, out to the Dangerous Music Monitor ST and also chained in a Lexicon MPX500 on 3-4 for I/O.

Not too sure if it's all right, however, audio is going out 1-2 Orion through the "mastering" and onwards to the speakers.
I suspect that means I do not have that available to mix down though... that's where I am lost a little. I can supply a better showing of where everything is hooked up, but above is the general gist.

Tony

Read that last post of mine regarding how I connect the Monitor ST and the SSL.

The SSL is confusing at first. Do you think you are understanding it like I describe?

audiokid, post: 423669, member: 1 wrote: The SSL is confusing at first. Do you think you are understanding it like I describe?

Good morning Chris,

I'm not up in the studio at the moment. I'll post later where each of the DB-25s end up sending out on xlrs. I have the setup as you say, however I may be being blonde again. I use 1-2 out on the orion, which is making the master bus come up of course in Logic. Since I have 1-8 out and 1-8 in as you describe it should be easy :D. I however have 9-16 off the SSL coming back into that 1-8 on the Orion.

There is no issue hearing anything, I just thought I should be able to use the "mastering" chain for example as a plug in I/O plugin perhaps, but, that may not in fact be necessary. It's using it like inserts at the moment. My big thing may be not understanding which is needed on settings in the X-patch control. I am using device on top 8 and insert on lower. Is that right, or, should they all be device, or unlinked?. Do you need screen shots?.

I realize I could also just run a separate pair for no path through the "mastering chain", however, since I can bypass them all with no detrimental effect, don't see the point. All is feeding the dangerous monitor no issue, just not sure if it is actually there if I mixed it down.

Thanks,

Tony

And my studio is all boxed right now so I'm going off of memory.

What are your RME HDSPe Madi mixer monitor outs set to?
Are you capturing back to DAW1 or another ADDA?

I think the problem is, you are trying to use the SSL as a summing device, am i correct?

Hi Chris,

1/2 is set in Logic as monitor out, also in OSX Audio settings, as in MADI 1/2 out. I am currently returning to DAW 1 yes. I am trying to SUM in the SSL yes.

Thanks mate :D

P.S Your studio is boxed up?

Tony

Makzimia, post: 423682, member: 48344 wrote: 1/2 is set in [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.apple.co…"]Logic[/]="http://www.apple.co…"]Logic[/] as monitor out, also in OSX Audio settings, as in MADI 1/2 out. I am currently returning to DAW 1 yes. I am trying to SUM in the SSL yes.

Okay, I think I'm understanding you process, let me ask you quick questions..

Are you wanting to use the SSL as a master bus?

Makzimia, post: 423682, member: 48344 wrote: P.S Your studio is boxed up?

Its going to another location.

audiokid, post: 423683, member: 1 wrote: Are you wanting to use the SSL as a master bus?

Yes :).

Okay..

I have to go out for part of day. If you stay with me right now, I'll walk you through something.

I'll toss this out while waiting for your answers. https://www.gearslutz.com/board/gearslutz-secondhand-gear-classifieds/974998-dangerous-2-bus-lt.html?highlight=dangerous

If you extra money, I believe you need a summing box. I'd jump on this or the 2-bus. They are both equal quality.
It will complete your otb process properly.

Next post I will explain something....

audiokid, post: 423686, member: 1 wrote: I'll toss this out while waiting for your answers. https://www.gearslutz.com/board/gea...8-dangerous-2-bus-lt.html?highlight=dangerous

Can't access that, no gs account :). I won't be getting any extra gear, so... :(

Here is the wiring using Orion (RME to it) and to from the SSL.

Into SSL 1-8 Orion 1-8 out
SSL 9-10 - Master linked (eq, dbx quatum, eventide)
SSL 11-12 - Lexicon MPX 500
SSL 13 - RC-500 Presonus
SSL 14 - blank (yamaha spx90 probably)
SSL 15-16 - blank (eleven rack probably)

Out of SSL

SSL 1-2 - Dangerous Monitor ST
SSL 3-4 - Lexicon
SSL 5-6 - blank
SSL 7-8 - Master Linked (eq, dbx quatum, eventide)
SSL 9-10 - 15-16 back to 1-8 into Orion (back to RME)

Hope that makes it clearer.

Tony

db25 cables: orion32 analog 1/8 out > Xpatch 1/8 io > Orion32 analog 1/8 in. Done

Xpatch breakout 9/16 i/o > analog hardware Done

Your ssl can now route all 8 lanes of hardware to any of the orion 32 1/8 inserts. make sense? If you want to change the orion lanes, you need to either do this manually or find a way in your DAW mixers.

This may take a long post. Maybe we should call each other.

What you need to do now is route your DAW tracks to 8 bus OTB which we are assuming is 1/8 of the orion32 and return those 8 back to your daw using one of your 2 lanes as a sum. Is it possible?

If you had a summing box, you could simply return it all together much easier.

I have to go out Tony.

In a nut shell, I use my xpatch to route 8 lanes. I don't see it as a way route more than 8 without compromising your entire reason to hybrid. If you use two daws, you can use it to route 8 lanes into two outs. Some how you need to do a lot more internally before it gets to the orion so you have more dedicated summing lanes. Its so hard to explain.

You may be better off bypassing the Xpatch for now until you see its use better, or until you get the main routing of hardware right. I'm pretty certain you can bypass the xpatch right now. unless you need the -10 that is?

audiokid, post: 423690, member: 1 wrote: What you need to do now is route your DAW tracks to 8 bus OTB which we are assuming is 1/8 of the orion32 and return those 8 back to your daw using one of your 2 lanes as a sum. Is it possible?

Using SUM option in RME total mix?

audiokid, post: 423691, member: 1 wrote: I have to go out Tony.

Gotcha, thanks for input :).

The thing people make a mistake on is on the master section of the DAW. They keep it active while they are also summing OTB. They are creating a parallel master bus, one otb and one itb both summing on one DAW. Does this make sense?

Its why I completely bypass the master section of DAW1. All DAWs are different so I don't know how this makes sense to you but keep this in mind.

Another way,
To route all your hardware out of the xpatch, you have to group them and choose two lanes as a stereo out and return that back into one of the 32 analog ins of the Orion. That becomes your sum.

Note: The ST is not part of the xpatch, it should be included on a stereo bus of the DA. You want to monitor the capture ITB.

Does this help?

Last part of this.

The ST could be better off monitoring off of example Orion 31/32 DA. Use this as your dedicated 2-bus. Use all the other channels for mixing.

Its so much easier with two daws but this will work, you just need to get the basic approach understood!

gotta go... later :)

In the end, passing back to 31-32 out to the Dangerous monitor ST, just like I began. Using Total Mix to pass the stems through and using my "uncoupled" mastering analog gear (see what I did there Chris ;) ). I seem to have solved my current issues. Next, make mics work nice and record!!!!.

Oh thanks for the chat Chris, much appreciated!

Today's lesson :- set settings only when you know what they do!. I spent about 5 hours in total including today wondering why 96k was not playing back.. well.. I had selected smux settings on, in the Orion 32 control panel, when initially making my system work on MADI. Since I had all working fine at 44.1k I didn't know I had an issue. Well of course, since ideally, and I have done some in the past, I want to record at 96k and mix down, I ran into the issue when an old project I hadn't finished, just would not play. Meters were flying, even as I ran stems out, and back in, all over the usual setup I successfully mixed What's her name using. Oh well, another day, another lesson.

Onwards!.

A new day, and the final step in using the new gear in anger. Today I finally got into plugging mics in and using them. First task record my 12 string Ovation. Baby blue bottle and a AT 4033a into two channels of one of the Focusrite Octopre MK2 dynamics. Both mics sounds nice and clear, baby blue at the 12 fret facing back a little towards the sound hole, AT4033a near the back of the sound hole. Both mics lying at opposite points to each other. Lush stereo sound. Final work, for today, record a vocal take with the trusty RODE NT2. The Rode was plugged into the Presonus RC 500. Nice clear uncoloured sound there.

It's amazing, I have actually performed this particular song so many times since writing it... still manage to bugger it up when I have to press record and turn around to the mics LOL.

Attached files

Remeber these things? Lol

Attached files

kmetal, post: 424593, member: 37533 wrote: Remeber these things? Lol

Yeah yeah, LOL. I don't even have any of them anymore... I actually have an iPad, and if I can get Apples logic control to work at the same time as my MCU's I am golden. iPad is on a stand and I can use that right near me, anywhere then in the room, it's what I did before going with the MCUs.

Cheers,

Tony

In case anyone missed it, Orion32 firmware and console updates to 4.01 (today) 4.0 (console). Interesting fix in firmware today phase issues fixed. Seems they didn't check that implementation in 4.00 properly.

I will checking something I am suspect of in addition to that. I believe a mix pair for 1-2 May be involved in my current patch bay issue too!. :-/.

Tony

Thanks for posting. I've never used the Orion mixer so I don't relate to this but I'm wondering if this phase you mention is only related to their mixer? I don't get why people need more ways to confuse the simple and easy way to route stems out of a DAW and into a console. Since day one, I set the ADDA channels L/R in order and never look back.

I don't use the Orion mixer as such. It's just in play because of the signal coming through it out to the OTB stuff. Disconnected once set. Anyway, I can confirm that my additional suspicion was unfounded. I am left with the issue still. Now it's either total mix or the x patch settings..

@Chris did you use chains with your x-patch? Or straight devices?. If you did use chains how did you handle the need for stereo when it's not able to allow a chain to more than on preset spot?. Split left and right outs to separate chains maybe?.

Thanks,

Tony

More update, the funky sound on mono has in fact gone away with the Orion 32 firmware update. I do not have any reverse phases set, however that bug probably made it think some/all were :).

The feedback issue is being caused by an open 1-2 feed, which is not in use by ANYTHING I can access.. so I am clueless. By switching to 7-8 as a feed in from the master chain, I am getting what I want anyway.

I use chains or straight all the time. It works flawlessly. Your issue is not with the Xpatch, it is without question how you are setup and summing in other ways.
To me, there is only one way to do hybrid well and that is with two boxes and two independent converters uncoupled from one and other. I know mass is on the round trip but it is an illusion and a big expense. Been there done it.

To whomever is listening.
Attempting to improve a mix with outboard gear on one system is a waste of time and money ( flame away!).
We may think this process is improving sound now but once you are able to surgically compare ITB to a one daw hybrid system .... I would challenge the pros and cons ever being worth it.
But, if it gives you the sound you are looking for, that's the main thing.

Back to Tony
The Xpatch is excellent but I've never used it for a summing box. It love mine to patch gear between my console's I/O's

@Chris the sound on 1-2 is either because of my Mac or the Orion 32. If I play back anything, none DAW even, it plays on 31-32 AND 1-2. It's only supposed to be using 31-32 :-(. I can't figure out why... and it's not because of my chain, I promise :).

And as I said, this is a new issue as of a couple of days ago, and prior to the Orion updates.

Thanks,

Tony

:oops::confused: Oh dear, well, after telling Antelope support I had checked everything and it seemed to point to my Orion32... it was...... RME TotalMix ...

I'll be over there ----------->.

I'm still not fully clued in, but I fixed the issue of the feedback, open channel. :rolleyes:

Makzimia, post: 425795, member: 48344 wrote: I fixed the issue of the feedback, open channel

see... :D

right on, glad you nipped that in the bud! One of the best parts in using two DAW's is workflow . You never need to worry about open channels, loop feedback plus the bouncing down is completely eliminated. My Daughter's last mix drove me crazy summing on one DAW. I really appreciate the simple workflow after being confined to one DAW.

Whats interesting, which might be an interesting topic is how we all arrive at 44.1 at the end of a mix. Do you go right from a full session straight to bouncing down or do you go in steps to get there? Example, session, mixdown, mixdown to bounce, then master? I heard absolute improvements when mixdown to a 2 track, then open the two tracks and bounce down to 44.1 then Master.

Capturing on a second DAW is exact in comparison to what I experienced on the one DAW.

@Chris I'll explain more tomorrow, but basically, if I have total mix sorted out. Along with my DBX stuff off the x-patch, I can in fact do proper summing off buses back into 1 bus then down to a bounce for export. This keeps what I hear all the way the same.

I may not be perfect at it yet, but, I can 100% guarantee what the bounce is sounds identical to my SUM mix.

Cheers,

Tony

Great, now post a fixed mix!

@Chris

OK, I believe I have total mix mostly worked out. Using it's internal routing allows summing without a loopback.

My system as it stands is documented earlier in this thread, I basically have 24 in and out and 1 pair out to the monitoring. In my case from the Orion 32 pair 31-32. My goal was to set out to move audio in and out of Logic Pro X with out loss of listening environment, and to produce a mix down that equals what I hear during mixing. I do not claim at this point to be perfectly au fait with this, however it is working (as of now) as expected.

I will now post pics of each part as it pertains to function in MY studio.

To control OTB gear I use an SSL X-Patch here is a full setup of (some) gear.

And here is a setup, again all in use of above.

Total Mix of course runs back and forth the audio ITB and OTB. Note by sending the inputs of all external gear in my case 3-4, 5, 6, 7-8 to pair 1-2 I can mix all gear into my final mastering set of DBX and Eventide.

Inside Logic Pro X I now set each track to feed to an AUX BUS, even though this picture will show all used, I would not use them this way on each song. You will note the flexibility of this system allows either a record in via 1-2 (the master chain with all otb) or in Logic Pro X I/O allowing 1/2 to be flowed into 31-32 and bounced live rather than offline. Or conversely send out somewhere to say DSD or another DAW if wanted.

I hope I have covered basically what I am doing. It's still a learning process.

Thanks,

Tony

You have the SSL loaded up! Looks like you are onto it now.

Its interesting how full it is on all 16 I/O's . I only used 8 of the 16 connected to gear and the other 8 were to bypass and be direct (straight wire) to the Orion. It makes it easy to move gear all over the 8 channels apposed to , I'm thinking how you have it, static per-say or difficult to hard bypass the mix.

Part of my workflow is always about comparing. I find I learn more this way. So, I am always comparing ITB to OTB, variation in gain staging, monitoring, front or back of those devices etc without needing to stop and pull cable.
I used two SSL XPatched for 16 channels. Soon after all this experimentation, I started realizing how much , "better" I could optimize the workflow and improve sound quality on all counts ITB. Most of the "good difference" comes from uncloupling the sum between one box to the capture.
I know I'm a broken record but like a parent, we keep telling our kids things they don't want to hear, hoping one day they get it..

until you are able to surgically compare, its like driving a car. I know you can drive but... how does it compare

Boswell, post: 425821, member: 29034 wrote: Great, now post a fixed mix!

Indeed. We're loving your progression and thanks for sharing all this with us Tony! Extra respect to those who do this.

Hi Chris,

Chris, post: 425885, member: 1 wrote: Its interesting how full it is on all 16 I/O's . I only used 8 of the 16 connected to gear and the other 8 were to bypass and be direct (straight wire) to the Orion

You will note I loaded this up on purpose :). I just wanted to show anyone interested as well what it's capable of. Now I know what I am doing, I am going to make more presets and use a template (at last) in Logic :).

Thanks,

Tony