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anonymous 2 April 2004

Hello all.

I'm tracking some drums & would like some opinions from the pro's! :-)

Here's what I have to work with.
Mackie 1604 XDR going direct out into my Delta 1010 & Logic Gold.
I have 8 Bal ins & I could also use the Digi ins & a SB Live ins.

I have an RNC Comp & a 3630 (that I don't usually use for recording.)

For Mics I'm using a 57 for the snare
57's for the Toms X3
AT Pro 25 Kik
AKG C1000 for an extra "room" mic which will likely not get into the mix but maybe for an effect track.
I'm using Recordermans cool OH set up with an
AT4041 over the right shoulder pointed at the snare.
& a TLM 103 over top of the snare.
Also have some 58's that I'm not incorporating although I might
try one on the bottom snare instead of the C1000 room mic.

I've been mucking around for the last month and am about to move the kit & start over.
Reason being I had the kit in the basement laundry room with cement floors & walls.
After getting fed up with overall harshness & realising it's the room, I've decided to erase & redo.
I thought I'd post this thread & see if you guys can add some tips before I start again.

I'm doing everything myself so I've just been going in flat & without compression.
I might run the OH's through a bus/RNC & feed it in separately in addition to the flat tracks.

A couple of questions regarding the Mackie. (I'm renting it for the first time)
Should I use the low cut on anything?
I have not engaged it thus far but maybe it would be good on the snare & OH's?
Also how should I be setting the gain level on these XDR's,
should I not clip them at all or run it just so it's clipping a little?
I've been pumping it up to just before they clip but maybe they sound better running hotter?

I'm ok with the mic placement on the Kik/Toms & Snare.
First time with this OH placement but I think it's great.
Although the 2 mics I'm using are quite different.

Type of music is pop rock.

Thanks
Sean

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Comments

anonymous Sun, 04/04/2004 - 05:23

Yeah mic placement may be your friend but it means jack shit if you haven't got good monitors or your monitoring chain is crap.
The best results i have gotten come from dead rooms and close miking techniques.
Try and avoid the stereo bus comp if you don't need it - it's only going to slow down transients and the like.You may be better off squashing the whole lot in Logic Gold as a sub mix ( i.e snare and all ) .
Issues are usually dynamic consistancy with kick and snare .
For pop/rock it's desirable to have that snare upfront and not jumping out because of occasional hard hits.
Don't worry about using the sm-58's because the '57's are far better suited.
In some words , try and get less room and more drum because it will make more room for all the other elements that are layed later like guitars and vox.
Unless you like Led Zepplin or Phil Collins of course. :lol:

jdier Sun, 04/04/2004 - 13:24

Sounds like a lot of work micing all of the toms given that you are using mixermans drum technique for overheads. Personally I would give some consideration to using matched mics for the MM overheads. I am using Oktava 012's now with great results but with what you have I would suggest using two 57's as overheads. I have used Beta 57's and they worked pretty darn well. If you are serious about MM's method you would want to be driving the entire drum sound with the overheads. If that is the case then you would want them matched to make sure that you have a clear center for kick and snare.

I REALLY like your thinking about micing the bottom of the snare. I just did this last time I tracked and while it is not perfect for every song, it sure is nice in many cases. I find that I can bring that channel up to add some high end to my snare sound before I have to reach for EQ.

I would also give some thought to the room mic thing. For instance I might consider tossing it in another room and leave the tracking room door open. If that concrete crappy laundry room is adjacent to the room the drums are in how about tossing it in there. You might be able to get a nice "reverb chamber" kind of sound.

My last advise is to listen very critically to the overheads in a test. If you are going to really rely on them you need to make sure everything is represented and that kick and snare are center.

Good luck.

Post some samples.

Jim

anonymous Sun, 04/04/2004 - 22:39

Here's some wavs.....
First is the "cement room"
The next are using the direct out then the insert out on the Mackie 1604.
Interesting difference!!
I think my kick is out of phase with the overheads??
I've included samples with the kick in & out so see what you guys think.

All tracks are recorded in pretty much the exact same
mic set up going in flat & I leaving them flat for comparison.
I just put a little low roll off on the OH's.
What you're hearing are 7 mics.
I didn't include the AGK C1000 cause it sounded crappy.

Still tweaking but it's interesting to hear the differences!!

http://www.decsi.com/~sroberts/Drums/cement_room.wav
http://www.decsi.com/~sroberts/Drums/directout.wav
http://www.decsi.com/~sroberts/Drums/directout_inv.wav
http://www.decsi.com/~sroberts/Drums/insertout.wav
http://www.decsi.com/~sroberts/Drums/insertout_inv.wav

Cheers
Sean

anonymous Mon, 04/05/2004 - 08:49

Sean,
Sounds pretty good. I think the 'insert out' sounds the best. The 'direct out' sounds good too but a little different sound, kinda boxey.
Are you tracking each drum seperately (to it's own track)? If so, you should be fine. This will leave you plenty of room to 'spice' them up.
If you're going to submix these to 2 tracks (per say) then you'll need to change some things in your mixing, eq and processing.
If you have the tracks, record each to a seperate track, thats the best way!

I think you have a good foundation to start. Should end up with a good overall sound. Nice work.

Mike

anonymous Mon, 04/05/2004 - 20:32

Yes I should correct...
It's Recordmans technique as I stated! :lol:

Thanks Mike for the reply.
Yes all tracks are separate & can be adjusted.
I want to get solid tracks into the PC to build on or
at least as best I can with my limited gear/skills! LOL I haven't
recorded too many drum tracks on my own so having more
experienced folks have a listen is a sweet bonus to this forum!

Cheers
Sean

MPlancke Mon, 04/12/2004 - 08:05

Re: Recording Drums. Here's what I have, how would you set i

krazydog wrote: Hello all.

AT4041 over the right shoulder pointed at the snare.
& a TLM 103 over top of the snare.

Thanks
Sean

You'll most definitely need a pad for the TLM103 if your going into a mic pre-amp without a pad, a Shure inline works great. You could always take the TLM103 directly at line level into your recorder.

Mark

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