Hey Bassmac, it's Crowdog from the DUC, How's it going? ........ I'll take a stab at it. I think sample #1 is the POD, #2 is the real Marshall - only because I think I hear real room on that one, but who knows - I think they both sound pretty cool. My preference is #1 no matter which one it is.

Tony

ok, here's my guess:

1) POD
2) marshall

I didn't like the 2nd take at all - the mids sound pretty messed up - probably out of phase. it quite sounds like the mic isn't on the sweet spot of the cabinet. perhaps too far away from the cone and off-axis?
anyway, that's why I'm pretty sure take 2 is the marshall. looking foward to hearing the result.

all the best.

mike

Hey... the link is not working for me :(

Yeah,
I would say the first is the POD and the second is the Marshall. I would prefer the sound of the POD.

Ian

I would say 1 is pod and 2 is marshall... very nice sound the first one

which pod did you use for the test??

sample #2 sounds like a bad miked cab, plus I used to have a DSL JCM2000 and they are very harsh. so I sold it and bought 2 JCM800s with the money, and it's just a different world, in terms of sound. Also 57s sound harsh to me too, an M88 made a whole difference too.
Sample #1 is nice, I would use a POD if I didn't know how to find the sweet spot, or I didn't have the right mic or the right amp. But having the right elements is even better than a POD.

Joz

1 sounds best to me! But then I just lost a Neve vs PT shoot out on some 'classical music' recordings, so WHAT DO I KNOW!

:D

I too would say #1 POD and #2 Marshall. And the fact that #1 sounds less offending than #2 doen't prove anything beside the fact that it sounded better in this case with this particular combination of gtr/amp/room/mic(s)+positioning/pre/recorder of which we know nothing. ;) )

So what your test maybe points to is that for somebody without the aformentioned quality ressources, the POD might very well be the best path to useable e/gtr recording but it is a far cry from the quality you can achieved under the best of circumstances!

It is still a useful tool to create different tones than what you have available with your given equipment. And it can definitely help to educate its users to the different characters they can expect from the real different amps, in short: great for preprod! ;) :w:

I posted this on the DUC as well, but I know many of you have a lot of experience miking amps, so I wanted to get your opinions as well. Below is a copy of the follow-up I posted on the DUC for those interested.

===============================

The answer is...

1) POD

2) Marshall

In all fairness, I've only been messing around with this amp for a few days now, (on loan from a friend) so I'm sure I've got a ways to go in terms of miking, tone, etc. To tell you the truth, so far, I really don't like this amp very much. These Celestion 75's and modern Marshall heads are very harsh sounding, and are a far cry from the tone I remember my band mates had back in the 70's. I'm sure some Greenbacks would help, but I probably need a old head as well if I want to go the Marshall route.

As far as signal chain goes, I just did the basic slightly off axis 57 half way between the cone and edge, into an API 312 pre amp, RME A/D, computer. I am in the same room as the cabinet, but I was sitting about 12' away from the loud muther. I'm know getting closer will increase the interaction between the cabinet, strings and pick-ups, but that's for another day.

I tend to perfer the POD's Boggie and Fender patches the best, but since I was comparing a Marshall, I used a JCM-800 patch.

I'm a one room studio, so I'm really not looking forward to recording a blaring amp, but I'm a little down on my (mostly POD) mixes lately, so I'm starting to check out some other stuff.

There's something very one dimensional about my mixes, and since there's usually a lot of guitar tracks, I think the POD may have a lot to do with it. There's always a lot of discussion about the lack of depth in mixes, and I'm sure too many direct recording sources plays a big roll in that, esp. combined with digital recording. There's also something about the POD's distortion that tends to get very washed out in a mix, where as a miked amp has a certain "bite" that cuts through much better. Oh well, back to the drawing board...

Thanks to everyone who took my Pepsi challenge. :w:

Thanks!

You got to "mix it up" all the same gizmo is a no-no for gtrs I reckon, here's my modest selection..

1) Marshall JMP 1 - pre w cab simulation
2) Digitec Valve FX - pre w cab simulation
3) Amp farm TDM
4) Micro - joke - plastic fender twin
5) "whatever the band brings in"
6) rental stuff (Ampeg B15 on bass)

Often the JMP 1 patched into the bands Marshall head 'return' sound better that the pre in their head..(??)

But I ALLWAYS mix it up.

The Valve FX (chrome finish) is a secret weapon, 3 friends of mine have bought them since I discovered em.. They are great - not for basic's but 'iceing on the cake' or last melodic motifs etc and haunting hooks..

Jules, didn't you buy a Dual Rectifier a few months ago? Guitar players love mine. The next thing on my list is a cool Marshall.

I find the JMP1's direct much nicer and closer to a JCM-800 than the POD's Marshall's! Also true that it's better as a pre than the pre's in the JCM-900 and later models. However a nice Superlead or early JCM-800 (If you can check out the white ones!) in a good cab (Greenbacks are good but a little harsh, old Alnico black dots are amazing! however modern 75's are just Yeurk! :tu: :w:

"Mix it up" is good advise Jules. I was getting some pretty good tones from the POD, so I just got sort of lazy and put my amps away. Naturally, the bottom line is how things work in the mix, and a lot of POD tracks summed (there's that word again) together isn't very flattering. Time to break out the old amps again, new technology isn't always the best technology...

===================

groundcontrol,

Mixing speakers sounds interesting.

I've got an old blond 2x12 Fender Bandmaster cabinet that needs new speakers. When you mix the two different speakers, are you close miking each speaker along with a distant mic to capture the overall cabinet?

I don't know if I've heard an Alinco or not, I trust you've found it to be a good compliment to the Celestions?

Jules, spend some dough on backline stuff. Having a small 2x12 cab and a few different heads and small combos to pick from can really mix things up and make guitar players happy. Players love walking in here and seeing my small collection of amps and snare drums, digging through the cymbal bag etc. And the other thing is that it's cheaper then a good piece of outboard gear.

BM, yes I close mic + far mic at point of convergence but don't always use everything. Also, I use lots of ribbons for gtr cabs.

I've mixed and matched speakers only in open-back cabs though. Actually it's the Matchless DC30 that started me on this path. Is the Bandmaster cab open or closed? I have a blackface Bassman head and its close-back 2x12 with the original Jensen's that's so fat it doesn't work with everything. But when it does... :eek: :w:

Thanks for this post, very interesting....

Cheers
Bruce :tu:

GC, My Bandmaster cab is a closed back 2x12. It's got EVM-12L's in it now, which handle a ton of power. I use to use it for bass gigs with my blackface Dual Showman. (got tired of carrying around my SVT) I'll probably try some greenbacks in the 2x12 for better break-up at lower volumes.

Thanks for the tips. :tu:

BM, what you could do is try to befriend a reputable and cool amp tweaker/maker tech guy in your area. Over the years I've met a couple of cool guys that repair, mod and even build amps and stompboxes on spec. They are great info resources. With them I can discuss ideas and try things like they'll put me some speakers in a cab and they'll change them if it doesn't turn out like planned and I want to try something else, or they'll voice an amp for me after I explain what aspects I don't like or want to change.

They'll also know who could sell or rent an amp type I'm searching that sounds great for studio sessions.

I always budget for guys like that to come down to the studio once or twice when I'm setting up with a new band at the beginning of a project to maximize all the instruments and amps we have for the sessions. If we feel that we need some rentals they can help to find some and get them in shape too.

Also, with all the musicians I worked with I've developed a good network of guys where we'll lend or rent for a small fee nice instruments to each others. They all know that wathever they bring to my place they'll get it back in better shape so they're always open!

Have fun! :w:

Anyone here using the Tech 21 SansAmp PSA-1 rack unit for direct recording? I got one used a while back and can't say enough about it. Great for bass as well.

Jules, if you've never tried one, I think you'd definately get use out of one....one more thing to patch to that Distro :D

Tom

Originally posted by tld:
Anyone here using the Tech 21 SansAmp PSA-1 rack unit for direct recording?

I read good reviews about it, so I tried one...and returned it. The up side is since it's all analog, there's nothing processed sounding about it like with the POD. But, no matter what I did, it just sounded like a DI guitar with a distortion box...pretty flat and lifeless, and more buzz & fuzz than distortion. I love their stuff for bass though.

I like the PSA-1 but on anything but guitars. I have a few Sans Amp pedals here and the only way I use them with guitars is running into an amp. Otherwise they sound small, but much better then the Rockman that came before them or a DI'd stomp box.