The high and low buttons filter the feedback...

Loosing all the high when at full mix isn't good...might want to have the unit checked out...

Are you sure the low or high button wasen't pressed?

If I mix the the signal totally 'wet' it sounds like there is nothing past 5000 hz coming out.

Yep, that sounds about right on long delay and settings and it can even be as high as 10kHz bandwidth on shorter delay settings. That is mostly because of the low bit rate and sampling rates the unit was designed with that was state of the art in it's day. That low-fi stock sound is now more popular and desired than ever and people go out of there way to over process a delay signal to try to get that same sound.

These things go for like 600$ on eBay.

Complete f'ing rip off.

And no, do not tell me there is anything intrinsically more low-fi about the 41 vs any other crusty delay box.

I had one of these when they first came out - I loved the sound of it and it's capabilities. I'm sure you should get >5kHz out of it - that would suggest a sampling fq of only 10kHz. You should get at least 14kHz out of the unit, otherwise something is wrong.

thanks for the replies,
i may be wrong on the 5000hz... it sounded pretty low though. i will have to play with the feedback in conjunction with the hi/ low buttons. it does have a nice quality to the sound.... very hi fi for lo fi :D.

Perfect example of stupidity in gear lust prices:

Item name: Lexicon PCM42 PCM 42 Digital Delay, GOOD COND!!
Price: $224.72
Buy It Now: $950.00
Bids: 4
End date: Jun-23-04 18:25:22 PDT
View item:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3731510836&ssPageName=ADME:B:
SS:US:1

950$.

For a DELAY - that isn't even a Roland Space Echo (wouldn't pay 950 for that either).

$950 for a PCM42 is a very good deal when you know the history for pricing on that unit that only a few years ago was fetching >$2000.

The PCM42 has a unique sound/tone that is unlike most if not all digial delay units ever made due to the design and use of it's companding circuit

As for Roland space echo's, I just recently sold my old RE-150 that I bought for $350 back in 1981 for $1275. Just 3-years ago I bought a mint Roland SRE-555 (the top of the line) space echo for $275. The true value of something is all about supply and demand.

I'm not talking about "supply and demand." I'm talking about REAL value.

950$ for a crusty 80s delay box is a rip-off period. "Unique tone" doesn't cut it with me. Let's be pragmatic here. What's going in is not going to be sounding like 950$ coming out.

RE-150 for 1275$? I seem to see those going for like 300$ max on eBay. How exactly did you manage 400% of (already inflated) prices?

Sometimes the true value of something isn't about "true value" at all - it's about "perceived value." Gear whores demonstrate the reality of this daily.

anodized wrote: Gear whores demonstrate the reality of this daily.

Wouldn't that be a gear 'pimp'? 8)

anodized wrote: I'm not talking about "supply and demand." I'm talking about REAL value.

950$ for a crusty 80s delay box is a rip-off period. "Unique tone" doesn't cut it with me. Let's be pragmatic here. What's going in is not going to be sounding like 950$ coming out.

RE-150 for 1275$? I seem to see those going for like 300$ max on eBay. How exactly did you manage 400% of (already inflated) prices?

Sometimes the true value of something isn't about "true value" at all - it's about "perceived value." Gear whores demonstrate the reality of this daily.

Supply and demand always dictate current value. It seems very clear that you have not heard a PCM42 or you would know how unique it is. Many clients request and demand that specific unit for use on thier records/projects. The only reason the value has dropped is due to the decrease in using outboard effects, the increase of DAW/plugs and the Lexicon support of the PCM42 modeled plug. Who are you to judge what other people value as to if something is worth $950 is sound? If you you knew what really happens in big time recording projects you'd know that many will pay whatever it takes to rent or buy the specific gear that will give them the sound and tone they are after including buying gear just to record that project and selling it after.

As for my Roland RE-150, I didn't really want to sell it. One of my clients bought it because he knew exactly what he was getting, (a very good condition and maintained unit) who he was dealing with, and that he could return it if it didn't meet his needs. When you deal with used gear be it on ebay of anywhere else you take your chances. Ebay does not establish the all be all standard for fair and correct pricing. Ebay is only one source and guideline. People who deal in used gear as a business know this. Current standard value of a decent condition RE-150 on the west coast is about $850. Many people are willing to pay extra for peace of mind for things from someone they trust.

anodized wrote: I'm not talking about "supply and demand." I'm talking about REAL value.

950$ for a crusty 80s delay box is a rip-off period. "Unique tone" doesn't cut it with me. Let's be pragmatic here. What's going in is not going to be sounding like 950$ coming out.

Are you sierous?......have you ever used a PCM 42? It's one of the most sought after delay units on the planet......

I love that thing...it sounds great....and it's far from crusty. Are you one of those guys who thinks because something is old that it sounds like crap?.....

Let me guess...you use a Digitech S100 for all your effects............or better yet.....you use a Studio Projects C1 mic then run it through the Antares Microphone Modeler and tell people your getting them the sound of a ELAM251 through this really neat computer program you have......

djui5 wrote: [quote=anodized]I'm not talking about "supply and demand." I'm talking about REAL value.

950$ for a crusty 80s delay box is a rip-off period. "Unique tone" doesn't cut it with me. Let's be pragmatic here. What's going in is not going to be sounding like 950$ coming out.

Let me guess...you use a Digitech S100 for all your effects............or better yet.....you use a Studio Projects C1 mic then run it through the Antares Microphone Modeler and tell people your getting them the sound of a ELAM251 through this really neat computer program you have......

Ohhh, that's cold!!!! :D :D Brrrrrr

AudioGaff wrote:
Supply and demand always dictate current value.

Duh. But if you notice, I was dictating the difference between "current" and "actual/reasonable." If you notice someone go out and drop 20k$ on an 88 Ford Taurus - you're probably going to WONDER where their head is at.

It seems very clear that you have not heard a PCM42 or you would know how unique it is.

And of course some patented AudioGaff assumptive snobbery to try and strengthen the counter-argument. Incorrect, I have heard of and used a PCM42.

Many clients request and demand that specific unit for use on thier records/projects. The only reason the value has dropped is due to the decrease in using outboard effects, the increase of DAW/plugs and the Lexicon support of the PCM42 modeled plug.

Agreed there!

Who are you to judge what other people value as to if something is worth $950 is sound?

I'm not. If people want to pay 950$ for a delay box - go for it. However, I still have full right to question it just as much as they have full right to hand over a grand for something they think is the bee's knees.

If you you knew what really happens in big time recording projects...

More patrnoizing snob-talk.

As for my Roland RE-150, I didn't really want to sell it. One of my clients bought it because he knew exactly what he was getting, (a very good condition and maintained unit) who he was dealing with, and that he could return it if it didn't meet his needs. When you deal with used gear be it on ebay of anywhere else you take your chances. Ebay does not establish the all be all standard for fair and correct pricing. Ebay is only one source and guideline. People who deal in used gear as a business know this.

Those descprenancies do not justify a 400% markup.

Current standard value of a decent condition RE-150 on the west coast is about $850.

*ahem* Bullshit.

I'm on the west coast, as well.

Many people are willing to pay extra for peace of mind for things from someone they trust.

400% extra, apparently.

djui5 wrote:
Are you sierous?......have you ever used a PCM 42? It's one of the most sought after delay units on the planet......

Yes. Most sought after delay unit on the planet eh?
Is that taken directly from Obnoxiously Valued Gear Monthly?

I love that thing...it sounds great....and it's far from crusty. Are you one of those guys who thinks because something is old that it sounds like crap?.....

Absolutely not. I'm simply saying it is not ONE THOUSAND dollars worth of *delay*.

Let me guess...you use a Digitech S100 for all your effects............or better yet.....you use a Studio Projects C1 mic then run it through the Antares Microphone Modeler and tell people your getting them the sound of a ELAM251 through this really neat computer program you have......

I don't use ANY of that crap. See, this is so typical around these parts. Someone steps up and says "Hey, this is nonsense" and people degenerate it into "Who's got the phattest rack of gear?"

How about address the real issue of perceived inflated value driven by sensationalism and actual value of the unit compared to what's currently available.

Do you honestly believe the delay has a bunch of dark magic voodoo ICs/transistors or tonality differences such that it's "one of the most sought after delay units on the planet" ?

What always cracks me up is that typically people who consistently lust over archaic one-off gear are usually the one's not doing much in the grand scheme of things.

Hey our capitalist society is centered on value being what the traffic will bear- and that's just the way it is. Intrinsic value is a rare beast around these parts- by the same token my 1992 Mac Classic that I paid $2000 way back when I got it is not worth beans now- wish I got a few re-150 instead!

Naw, my 1992 Mac gave me a lotta years of serious midi sequencing- and If I ever decide to fire it up, with its 40 megabite hardrive and its 10 megabites of ram I could still sequence just about anything! Its not its fault it did not become a "classic" in spite of its name.

Mr. Anodized, you do indeed have the right to say and question anything you like. Your lack of understanding of the subject tells us all who you are and how little you really know about it. Keep reading, keep trying, keep your trembling chin up and one day you may learn to absorb the wisdom that you seek...

Get off it Gaff. You presume "lesser understanding" due to one saying "hey what the fuck?" about an obviously inflated price for a stereo delay.

You're pretentious, patronizing, and narcissistic.

Aren't you severely strapped for time with all of those multi-thousand dollar reverbs and compressors you've got to put into operation for the "clients?"

anodized wrote: [quote=djui5]
Are you sierous?......have you ever used a PCM 42? It's one of the most sought after delay units on the planet......

Yes. Most sought after delay unit on the planet eh?
Is that taken directly from Obnoxiously Valued Gear Monthly?

I said one of...no THE most.....I know a lot of people who love that unit...including myself. It's one of the great outboard delay unit's in existence. Sorry if you disagree....(cue Bobby Browns "My Prerogative")

I love that thing...it sounds great....and it's far from crusty. Are you one of those guys who thinks because something is old that it sounds like crap?.....

Absolutely not. I'm simply saying it is not ONE THOUSAND dollars worth of *delay*.

I would love to pay $200 for it....but wouldn't complain about getting one for $800 either....anything over $1000 I wouldn't pay..

Let me guess...you use a Digitech S100 for all your effects............or better yet.....you use a Studio Projects C1 mic then run it through the Antares Microphone Modeler and tell people your getting them the sound of a ELAM251 through this really neat computer program you have......

I don't use ANY of that crap. See, this is so typical around these parts. Someone steps up and says "Hey, this is nonsense" and people degenerate it into "Who's got the phattest rack of gear?"

It has nothing to do with "who's got the phattest rack of gear"......I stated that because of the rookie response you posted. Some people like beringher boards...and that's fine...to each his own....
You came off as having an opinion that the unit was a piece of shit...so I responded..............

How about address the real issue of perceived inflated value driven by sensationalism and actual value of the unit compared to what's currently available.

I understand your point of view....like people selling ns-10's for $2000.......but I don't feel that applies in this case....

Do you honestly believe the delay has a bunch of dark magic voodoo ICs/transistors or tonality differences such that it's "one of the most sought after delay units on the planet" ?

No...that's absurd. I don't think like that.....
What I do think is that the PCM 42 is one of the best delay units I've used...not only in ease of use but in sound quality..... I think the unit sounds great and works for a lot of applications. Not only that it sits well in a mix..which is the truest test of any piece of gear...but I'm sure you know that allready.

What always cracks me up is that typically people who consistently lust over archaic one-off gear are usually the one's not doing much in the grand scheme of things.

Let's not get into this argument.......

djui5, sure. I'm all for not arguing.

But would you agree that you can take any decent delay box worth it's salt and easily do the 42 sound (yes you may have to use some ingenuity)?

One of the reasons we all buy various types of equipment is for the *possibilities* and options available to us. I'd rather create the sound on my own with the options I have available.

Behringer is a perfect example though. Let's hypothetically say Behringer released a 16ch mixer that had the ability to make every single one of your mixes slammed loud without need for additional mastering. Let's also say current producers jumped all over it and the value rose to 2000$.

Would you pay that? Hell no! Would you not question the sanity of people buying it?

anodized wrote: djui5, sure. I'm all for not arguing.

But would you agree that you can take any decent delay box worth it's salt and easily do the 42 sound (yes you may have to use some ingenuity)?

anodized,
You can take any delay box and achieve the delays...but the inherint sound of the device won't be the same. Imagine saying you can take any mic pre and make it sound like any other mic pre...not possible. Sure...there's delays that will sound similar...but not quite the same. Even if you set up another delay box with the same settings..it wouldn't sound the same.
This is why I prefer outboard gear to plug-in's...I like the sound of outboard gear....I like the sound of consoles.....

One of the reasons we all buy various types of equipment is for the *possibilities* and options available to us. I'd rather create the sound on my own with the options I have available.

Thats fine with me....but personally it's not all about options. Part of the reason large facilities use big consoles is options...that's true...but another reason is the sound of the desk.
So...yes...it is about options to an extent. But there's more....sound quality is a factor also.....well..it is to me anyways.

Behringer is a perfect example though. Let's hypothetically say Behringer released a 16ch mixer that had the ability to make every single one of your mixes slammed loud without need for additional mastering. Let's also say current producers jumped all over it and the value rose to 2000$.

Would you pay that? Hell no! Would you not question the sanity of people buying it?

No I wouldn't buy it.....I wouldn't buy anything made by them. And if I came across a producer that said he loved beringher I would question his abilities...not only for saying he liked a console made by a company like that...but also for liking a console that "slammed" everything. I wouldn't work with him/her and would not refer anyone to him/her.

I do see your point...you have a valid statement. Sometimes events happen that cause the price of something to go through the roof....look at the signs when driving by a gas station.....is the gas any better?..no.....

Do not get me wrong. I'm not saying the 42 does not have a "sound." I also prefer outboard and hardware devices as opposed to the current crop of software (like you, I *can* hear it). I'm just saying it's not a 950$ sound for a *stereo delay.*

Especially when you can put that 950$ towards a PCM81, for instance, that will do WAY more and sound, even if not as distinct, fine on it's own. It's not like we're comparing Minimoogs to Casios here.

That's my issue.

For someone that claims they know and have heard the PCM42, then they should know that no other delay sounds like it. They should also know that the PCM42 is a MONO delay not a stereo one. They as well ought to know that $1000 has been the average going price for almost two years and that the price/value was even higher before that.

Aren't you severely strapped for time with all of those multi-thousand dollar reverbs and compressors you've got to put into operation for the "clients?"

Yes. that is correct. My time it is streched and very valueable but yet I still come here and for no pay to offer my help and experience to the novice, the willing, the challanged and of course the clueless like you...

I stand corrected, mono! But nice attempt to try and discredit the previous discussions touched upon by pointing out small errors in things which have jack shit to do with the original discussion in the first place.

You're the classic "Anyone who knows anything knows the Cubs won 4-2 not 4-1 as you stated - it's obvious you know nothing about baseball" type of guy.

Seriously, get over your god complex and come down to the plane of rational-minded reasonable individuals. a 2-second mono delay for 1000$. Gee whizz bob, it's got modulation too!! You mean I can put a sound through it and the delayed output will change over time?! What will they think of next?!!

In the music you write or the productions you mainly contribute to, do you even use feedback values above 80% ? :lol: :lol: :lol: All this talk about sound I would think you were a dub producer. My instinct tells me otherwise.

A 1000$ could be better well spent at the source of the sound.

anodized, think whatever you feel like thinking, say whatever you feel like saying... but us old guys, the ones who've been doing this for a decade or two appreciate the tonality of the early Lexicon boxes.

Personally, the first thing I do when I get my hands on a PCM-41 [which I think sounds better than a PCM-42] is to hit the "x2" switch... not becuase I need a longer delay but because I want to decrease the bandwidth of the unit.

Have you ever yelled into a brick wall and heard an echo? Has that echo returned with "full bandwidth"? No, it doesn't. reducing the bandwidth on a delay, reverb, etc. will actually add a bit of reality to the tracks along with not jamming up the top end of your mix.

As for the "value" of a PCM-41 or 42, I personally think they're worth every dime you have to pay to get them. Me, I use a bunch of Roland delays as I found them very inexpensively in the local paper where the kids sell their guitars... I still check that paper every week, if I see some inexpensive Lexicon stuff in there I'll always call about it [I'm cheap and pretty much covered with the Roland stuff... but if I see a good deal on an old Lexicon, I'll snap it up in a hearbeat].

By "good deal" I mean a 42 for less than $750 or a 41 for less than $500-.

If you ever get the chance to use one, you'll understand why people will pay that much for one... much like if you ever use a well maintained Fairchild 670 stereo limiter you'll understand why they go for more than $30,000- [when you could buy a Pendulum Audio ES-8 that works on exactly the same principle for $3,250].

"Value" is in the eye of the beholder... since you ain't holdin', you can't see the value.

Peace.