pcrecord, post: 449645, member: 46460 wrote: Can't wait to hear what Chris think about it !! ;)

haha! :D

Joking aside... Looks cool, I'm excited to try it. Where I love the Bricasti most is on the 2-bus at the end of an analog chain between DAW 1 and DAW 2.

audiokid, post: 449647, member: 1 wrote: Joking aside... Looks cool, I'm excited to try it. Where I love the Bricasti most is on the 2-bus at the end of an analog chain between DAW 1 and DAW 2.

So, the question is, could you theoretically using vienna ensemble pro as a network plugin server, achieve that too :).

There are several reverb plugs out there that include modeling of classic verbs - Bricasti, Eventide, Lexicon, TC Electronics, Yamaha, etc.

Slate has the "Verb Suite Classics", which offers various reverb models from those listed above... and, they are also using Liquid Sonics IR's as the foundation for their reverb plug as well, so perhaps these files are the same as the Seventh Heaven (?)

Not sure.

I've found some to be very close, the Lexicon 480 model(s) are pretty much how I remember them back when we used to use the real thing. I can't say about the Bricasti either way, as I've had such limited experience with the real thing.

I've used them on some tracks, and the reverbs do sound very good to my ears, but as to the level/sound of their accuracy? I'm not the guy to ask.

go

Makzimia, post: 449656, member: 48344 wrote: So, the question is, could you theoretically using vienna ensemble pro as a network plugin server, achieve that too :).

Good question. If you take the same approach with it being the last process of a mix, it will definitely do something interesting. However, it won't have the same stereo spacial effect as a Bricasti. Nothing is like a Bricasti.

The Bricasti isn't just a reverb. Its ultra sound medical technology used to look inside our body, also used to take readings/ stereo images of dozens of rooms, theaters, halls, outside valleys, canyons etc... then stored as ( I'm guessing) usable algorithms built into a very well designed stereo processor that also has a pristine ADDA conversion path. So it does more than just reverb.
I use it to emulate space. I've found it makes everything sound more open and real just by putting a mix through it.

I don't use it like a Aux reverb. I like it best on the master bus for modelling space.

Makzimia, post: 449656, member: 48344 wrote: So, the question is, could you theoretically using vienna ensemble pro as a network plugin server, achieve that too :).

Yup. The slave (effects) machine is tied to the the sample rate and buffer of its master computer. So not quite as simple as a dedicated hardware insert, but theres plenty of options and workarounds from the hardware/latency perspective.

audiokid, post: 449660, member: 1 wrote: go

Good question. If you take the same approach with it being the last process of a mix, it will definitely do something interesting. However, it won't have the same stereo spacial effect as a Bricasti. Nothing is like a Bricasti.

The Bricasti isn't just a reverb. Its ultra sound medical technology used to look inside our body, also used to take readings/ stereo images of dozens of rooms, theaters, halls, outside valleys, canyons etc... then stored as ( I'm guessing) usable algorithms built into a very well designed stereo processor that also has a pristine ADDA conversion path. So it does more than just reverb.
I use it to emulate space. I've found it makes everything sound more open and real just by putting a mix through it.

I don't use it like a Aux reverb. I like it best on the master bus for modelling space.

The bricasti is super sophisticated. I would love them to make a unit that had no analog section, which could be used as a standalone digital effect and/or plugin.

it is all digital and can be used sort of like a plugin, I just happen to use it in the analog domain. It could never be a "plugin" though. It takes 7 cores or a full PC to run it.

audiokid, post: 449689, member: 1 wrote: it is all digital and can be used sort of like a plugin, I just happen to use it in the analog domain. It could never be a "plugin" though. It takes 7 cores or a full PC to run it.

Rackmount units with a pluggin window available within the daw is my dream for something like this. That said, I'm sure the m7 is amazing just how it is.

audiokid, post: 449689, member: 1 wrote: it is all digital and can be used sort of like a plugin, I just happen to use it in the analog domain. It could never be a "plugin" though. It takes 7 cores or a full PC to run it.

At the current level of technology, it doesn't sound as though a "true" Bricasti VST is possible.
I wouldn't go as far to say that it'll never be possible; there have been some miraculous digital audio platforms and tools that were barely a pipe dream back when I was starting out. At that time, I'd have never thought it possible that some day I'd be able to record 16, 24, or 48 tracks of independent, discreet audio to a computerized recording system (or even 96 tracks if I was really feeling particularly self-indulgent and pretentious, LOL) and then on top of that, to be able to manipulate EQ to infinitesimal increments, spectrally edit, automate mixes, add processing and effects, and get a great quality - at least not without owning a computer the size of a '52 Roadmaster. LOL

And, while technology has been really cool to watch it grow and morph, I think that there are still several modeling/emulation plugs that - while I think sound good in their own way - aren't really to the level of complete accuracy yet of what they are truly trying to model.

I've toyed with some tape emulation plugs, and while they do have an interesting sound/texture to them, ( I'm not even saying they are unpleasant) even the "best" of them currently out there still fall short, IMO.
Having threaded more reels of tape than I could ever count in all my years of doing this, IMO, I don't think they have it down... yet.

For those of us who grew up with tape, I don't need to explain - but for those younger members who've never tracked to analog tape, there's a certain "something" that's missing, that particular sound of tape being hit hard up into the sweet spot; the sound of the tape compression, the saturation, the harmonics and harmonic distortion that were all a huge part of "that" sound.

At this point, if I really wanted a true analog vibe to my mixes, I'd fire up my Studer 2 track, spool on a reel of 499, and record a mix to it at 15 ips.

OTOH, I've worked with some SSL channel strip plugs that totally blew me away, and respond and sound exactly as I remembered the real E's and G's desks sounding. So on some things, they're there.. on others, not yet.

But, never is a very long time... I suppose it would be 'possible' for Bricasti to put together their reverb samples /libraries in VST form, if they had a piece of hardware to go with it; something similar to how UAD handles their DSP engine, a separate device that holds all the "gas" for their plugs, all those processing chips that currently power one of the most sought-after digital reverb units in the world.

Of course, to play devil's advocate to that, I imagine that at that point, there's probably a strong argument to be made for just buying an actual Bricasti. ;)

Just thinking out loud.

d.

audiokid, post: 449660, member: 1 wrote: The Bricasti isn't just a reverb. Its ultra sound medical technology used to look inside our body, also used to take readings/ stereo images of dozens of rooms, theaters, halls, outside valleys, canyons etc... then stored as ( I'm guessing) usable algorithms built into a very well designed stereo processor that also has a pristine ADDA conversion path. So it does more than just reverb.
I use it to emulate space. I've found it makes everything sound more open and real just by putting a mix through it.

A few questions...
1. Is there a particular space you like to use for this, or does it change up due to the content?
2. Generally speaking, what ratio of dry to wet do you like when using it on a 2 mix?
3. Do you EQ the space you choose to match the final mix - or do you leave the reverb response flat?
I'm intrigued by the process you use.
I can't run out and buy an M7 now... but there are projects coming up this summer where I may be able to make a move by late fall.
Oh... one more question...
Are you using analog or digital i/o on the Bricasti for your mix pass-through to DAW 2?

Or... are these things you'd rather keep to yourself as part of your mixing "trick bag"?
I totally understand if that's the case. I sincerely do.

Just curious. :)

DonnyThompson, post: 449698, member: 46114 wrote: 1. Is there a particular space you like to use for this, or does it change up due to the content?

Not really. I custom fit each space .

DonnyThompson, post: 449698, member: 46114 wrote: 2. Generally speaking, what ratio of dry to wet do you like when using it on a 2 mix?

Generally barley audible to subtle

DonnyThompson, post: 449698, member: 46114 wrote: 3. Do you EQ the space you choose to match the final mix - or do you leave the reverb response flat?

never have had to yet

DonnyThompson, post: 449698, member: 46114 wrote: Are you using analog or digital i/o on the Bricasti for your mix pass-through to DAW 2?

analog

DonnyThompson, post: 449698, member: 46114 wrote: 3. Do you EQ the space you choose to match the final mix - or do you leave the reverb response flat?

addendum to #3:
Other than the built in adjustments like hpf / lpf - I don't EQ mids or notch curves per-say.

DonnyThompson, post: 449698, member: 46114 wrote: I can't run out and buy an M7 now... but there are projects coming up this summer where I may be able to make a move by late fall.

There is a new Bricasti delay and 2 types of reverb coming, could be a year or less away. It could be worth waiting for. I sold both my Bricasti M7's in anticipation that the same units I use, will be easier to find (cost less) used and if not, that's okay too. I will likely buy the same M7 back or upgrade to the new generation M7 including add the delay as well.

I also use an Eventide processor for down the middle effect.

My eventide is sitting in the cupboard unused.. I have no room in my latest desk.

DonnyThompson, post: 449694, member: 46114 wrote: At the current level of technology, it doesn't sound as though a "true" Bricasti VST is possible.

I think that a high bandwidth digital connection like USB C, or Thunderbolt, or digital audio connection, along with a simple pluggin window interface/wrapper, to control the bricasti would be a step in the right direction. Particularly for people who'll print the bricasti on various auxes or tracks in the mix.

I'm not really sure about the dsp specs of the m7 but maybe the unit itself would be capable of serveral instances as is. If there were 'daw mode' or something.

With a 2ghz 8core /16 thread xeon processor being $450 these days I think there's a tremendous amount of power available for dsp/pluggins via dedicated slave computers or devices, and even native. If you take the conversion and analog sections out of a bricasti and replace it w dsp chips you should be able to squeeze more verb channels/instances out of the same footprint and price point.

audiokid, post: 449703, member: 1 wrote: There is a new Bricasti delay and 2 types of reverb coming, could be a year or less away. It could be worth waiting for.

Finally!! I've been waiting for a couple years to officially add the bricasti to my want list. Hope the new one is 7.1 friendly!!

I love these old posts. They are gems in the woods of our history.

I'm updating this topic because of owning a few Bricasti M7. To this day I've never used anything better than the M7 so this topic is particularity interesting to me, once again.

Because the Bricasti reverb is digital, I agree with Donny, that there is no reason why the hardware version of the M7 couldn't be replaced with a plugin (never say never). I suspect one computer and one DAW today may actually be able to do it good enough. 

As of Dec 2021: Here is what Seventh Heaven posts on their website:

The Best M7 Simulation Ever. Simplified.

For years the Bricasti M7 eluded all attempts to capture and reproduce the subtle beauty of this legendary hardware. Many in the industry considered it impossible.

Fusion-IR is a unique modulated convolution-based capture and reproduction technology developed specifically around the needs of M7. It redefines the rules of acoustic and workflow possibilities for convolution based reverberation processors.

Now used around the world, from the smallest mountain-top backpack studios to the biggest post production facilities in London and Los Angeles, Seventh Heaven reverbs are the definitive way to experience the power and beauty of the M7 natively within your DAW.

Nothing comes closer to M7 hardware in your DAW than Seventh Heaven.

Seventh Heaven presents some of the most well loved presets from Seventh Heaven Professional in one of the easiest to use reverbs ever designed, all for an incredibly low price.

I've been watching Bricasti for a few year to see if they have updated or upgraded their M7 and its been crickets there. I'm feeling pretty happy right about now having I sold my M7's for close to what I paid for them.

$69 in comparison to $3500 ...  Marco, did you ever buy the Seventh Heaven reverb?