Less is more. That is absolutley true. What kind of material are you recording, Rob? The Waves stuff is pretty good, but moderation is key, and there is no one-size-fits-all formula. Doc

Try not to rely on mix plugins too much for your sound. Especially compression as that should be left for mastering. Remember, if you can't hear the benefit of it, leave it off. When equing a mix, if you do any dramitic boosts on a mix (say more than +-3db) listen to what you are "fixing" and try to fix it in the mix rather than on the whole mix because that eq setting is more than likely unflattering to several other things in the mix that already sounded good.

I like the waves mastering pack and the UAD-1 card. Also SIR (free) will enable you to use some great sounding convolution reverbs. Most of the stock plugs that come with software actually make your mixes sound worse. The number one thing is to get it to sound good from the get go so that minimal work is needed for improvement.

seems anyone is releasing plugs nowadays. Soon you will end up watching behringer pops us copying Bomb Factory and so
lol

As a general guideline I also keep my channels "plug-free" as long as possible. In some cases I add light compression (Waves offers a number of niceplug-ins and then I group instrument and apply high-pass filtering to "get rid of low-end mud". Guitar, Keyboard and backing vocal subgroups are usually good candidates.

Heavier EQ usually only gets used on Bass, Kick, Snare and sometimes the Lead Vocals (usually only a little "air").

Of course, "In-time Delay" is added if the song needs it and more or less all channels have a send to a drum room or main (vocal) reverb.

Hope this helps,

MisterBlue.

Thanks for the input guys. Actually, I am doing mostly acoustic stuff (bluegrass and folk). I agree that less is more, but seems like without anything my recordings are pretty bland. The instruments sound good, but need some light eq'ing to give them a little sparkle, and I almost always feel the need to add a little reverb. It is easy with a bunch of plugs to get into the trap of adding too much. Restraint is good I guess. I guess I'll ask what the best sounding reverb (most natural) you guys have found. Thanks again.

Rob

Yes, never fuck up the 2 mix bus. Forget L1, L2 and so.

this less is more rule you guys are preaching here
is not always true - at least for me. if you have a
good collection or plug in tools that you can really
work with, sometimes more is more. just ask phil spector. on the stereo bus i sometimes have
4 to 8plug-inson it - but i am using most of it
so sparsly that im not messing up anything. without
most of it , i could not acheive what im wanting.
as far as keeping your plug in free as long as
possible, i dont even know what that means.

Plug-ins and/or outboard processing and effects are a very subjective topic. I've found that acoustic instruments, excluding rock drums, should sound as close to perfect as possible when put down to track. Then you just add the finishing touches at mix down. With rock, i.e. crunchy guitars, etc., there is more room for play at mix, mostly because there is more need for "control" of the instruments. With electronica (techno, rap, etc.) the sky or processing power is the limit. However, I NEVER put anything on the Master track of the mix going to the mastering house, although I will compress (Pro Tools Maxim actually) for the client mixes just to add a little level.

stealthbalance-

as far as keeping your plug in free as long as possible, i dont even know what that means

They mean that you should get the absolute best mix you can before even beginning to process the tracks.

Uncle Bob

LESS IS MORE - Miles Van Dero

Stealthbalance,
Non-threatening observation:
If the processing you are doing is subtle, do you really need to do it? One thing I have learned is to bypass all myplug-insafter finishing a mix, and see what the difference is. Many times I found that could leave theplug-insbypassed and it sounded just as good, and less processed. Another thing I am big on is trying to do more in tracking and less in mix. Getting rid of mud can happen as early as the mic placement stage.
Rob- this is also applicable in your situation- you can never add more sparkle than when you are going to tape. Find you are always adding a little more compression to the kick during mixdown? Do it during tracking. Find you are always cutting the bass at 60 hz to give the kick some room? Do it during tracking. Don't be afraid to make individual instruments sound a little weird when they stand on their own, if it does the job in the overall mix.
Any time you process something, you are adding distortion to it. It is subtle, yes, but it adds up. Solo any individual track and it sounds good, but listen to the whole mix and... feel a little underwhelmed? It all adds up.
Why does a musician playing in a room sound more vividly present and textural than a recording of them playing exactly the same thing (set at the same volume)? Because the signal going from a sound-source directly to your ears is the best it will ever be. Once the signal hits a mic it gets interpreted by a device that is less competent than your ears, as is the storage device the sound is recorded on. We can be artful about it and manipulate the signal, squash it, eq it, add harmonics, etc, but we still lose to the live performer.
Am I way out on a limb or what?! Boom! Let's have a little controversy. Doc

doc-

yes - you are way out on a limb - well not really :) .
everything you are saying I agree with as long as
you really know what you are doing. that's all i need
is to have more young inexperienced recording
engineers doing more processing to tape or
hard drive - isn't it tough enough dealing with
someones hack recording as it is ?? some of the
stuff i get to mix is truly requiring of surgury more
times than not. i dont want someone to roll off bottom
end on a kick thank you - i'll do it. or some of the vocals
i get to mix that are compressed so badly ( more than
anything its the worst attack & release they could have
used - and now here i am trying to save it. just put the
stuff down quickly and happily FLAT or close to it.
and just because you are slamming a compressor
to the hilt doesn't mean you are some hip and current
mixer. do it all if you are good and know whats up.
which brings me to another thought. in my opinion,
if you want to be an unbelievable recording engineer-
than do some mixing for a bit. if you want to be an
unreal mixing guy, than do a bit of mastering.
with the new perspective you gain at the next level
your stuff is on its way to, you bring back a wealth
of new knowledge to the job you really do. MHO
s
p.s. whats mic placement ??

Getting back to the topic here I have found that I will always use the RVox plug in for vocals as it is truly the shit! Gating and compression with a touch of love that really brings those vocals out at you!

I as well like to limit the amount of plug ins but there's a point of balance here where it depends on the song at hand and how many vocal tracks you have!

Sometimes I get rap songs that have about 15 tracks of vocals on them and each one needs some attention to it to help it come out a little more!

Also some effects, with the advent of the FX channels or sends within the program is a nice helper as well.

Anyways, the Rvox and the UAD plugs ins are my best friends at the present moment...as well as some I can't discuss of course! (hee hee :D

I have lost the number of times I urged clients not to fuck up the 2 mix bus with shitplug-insand cheap outboard gear. Also, bad mixing environment, bad monitors and the syndrome of normalization!!!!!!
OH MGGGG!!!!!

In my opinion, very fewplug-insare really worth using. nice mono plugincompressors are very hard to find. EQs and reverbs are reaonable.

Hey guys, based on this, I am writing another thread...
:s:

I'm in a little different camp. I think there are a few good compressor plugins out there, if you treat them as different animals than their outboard siblings. EQ's I'd agree, are pretty good. Reverbs are still dismal on the whole- I *hate* all the Waves verbs, and I think my $150 Lexicon MPX100 beats them all hands down. The UAD1 verb is liveable, although it really only does 'clean and open.'

My kingdom for a chamber.

I also don't agree about bus compression- limiting, yes, leave it alone, but fuck it up with the compression if you like. Just use your ears, and be aware of the compromises.

Originally posted by Alécio Costa - Brazil:
I have lost the number of times I urged clients not to fuck up the 2 mix bus with shitplug-insand cheap outboard gear. Also, bad mixing environment, bad monitors and the syndrome of normalization!!!!!!
OH MGGGG!!!!!

In my opinion, very fewplug-insare really worth using. nice mono plugincompressors are very hard to find. EQs and reverbs are reaonable.

Hey guys, based on this, I am writing another thread...
:s:

I have replaced my external Reverb units with the TC Powercore ClassicVerb. It might not be a PCM91 or a 6000 but I think it is not inferior than the MX-500's and alike.

Having finally also the reverb inside the machine really makes for a nice and clean solution.

Then there are also the AltiVerb / Impulse Response kind of algorithms. Some of them even being free downloads ...

I think there is decent stuff becoming more and more available.

MisterBlue.

A light compression shall do a nice job. If you do it all, what will left for the amstering guy?

You said you normalize individual tracks. I recommend you not do that!!!

AS default plugs for mixing I would recommend :
MC DSP Compressor bank
WAves Q series, Ren collection
PSP Vintage Warmer
TC chorus
Lexiverb
PAZ
Amp FArm
Echo Farm
Autotune ( ouch!!)

:)

Most plugs sound best when used delicately. I have a wierd habit of closing my eyes whenever I'm done setting up a plug. I first find the on/off button for the plug then close my eyes and I hit my mouse button a bunch of times to confuse myself so that I'm doing a blind A/B or on/off test with the plugin. With my eyes closed there is less distraction and eye candy and it's easier to concentrate on the sound and imaging. It also helps to loop a small section before listening. I started to mix this way after working with a blind engineer. A lot of plugs screw up the imaging or add distortion or phasing. I think Doc gave some good advice about getting it right in the recording stage. If you do that your mixes should end up sounding better than live.

I agree with Opus that the Rvox is the shit, I really love it, although I am finding that the UAD-1 LA2 is also really smooth on certain vox as well.

Most vocals will require some form of reverb to help them sit better in the mix...lots of early reflections for my taste.

As far as the 2-track...I agree with most of the posts here...leave it be! When mastering for my own use, I use the UAD Pultec EQ and the L1, and that is about it!

as a pro tools user, i like the digi ReverbOne much better than rvox. Before I got that, i was able to get decent results from TCMegareverb, but a lot of that has to do with being really familiar with it, which ultimately is probably the key to any plug-in use. These days, for eq and compression i'm really loving the oxford eq and dynamics from sony.

Originally posted by littledog, jr.:
...i'm really loving the oxford eq and dynamics from sony.

:) Hey LD. Is that Sony Oxford plug proprietary to PT? Reason I ask is I am working with Sony at present with an installation. Out of idle chat, I mentioned that software. They mentioned Sony digital console use, I said no, I think it is a plug. They seemed to be confused? (not uncommon I understand, from the field standpoint) Just wondering.

--Rick

i believe it is at this time. supposed to be the same algorythms as the oxford console.

and I guess they are PT HD only, like Waves restoration KIT TDM..

Originally posted by littledog, jr.:
i believe it is at this time. supposed to be the same algorythms as the oxford console.

:) Thanks, so in the future I will reference it as Digi/Sony Oxford plugs for PT.

--Rick

Hi Rick! Got the files bud?
Nice thursday
:)

Originally posted by Alécio Costa - Brazil:
Hi Rick! Got the files bud?
Nice thursday
:)

:) Hi friend! Yes I do, thank you, and tonight I am going to enjoy them. I will PM you.

Nice evening to you!

--Rick

Just finishing one of the 3 songs sung in english. Will sent ya in two weeks.
Hugs
:p: Alécio