Compressing the overheads would only make your problem worse. Try it at mix and you will see what I mean. I have never had this problem, I must not want the cymbals as loud as you do.. most records don't have the overheads that loud in a mix.. it's usually kick and snare, a bit of hat and loud toms.

Try bringing the overhheads down closer and aiming more at the cymbals. I almost never compress drums except perhaps snare and kick, but only when the drummer is not consistant... Kurt

I just said this somewhere else, but...
i'd go the other way.
Instead of thinking of them as "overheads" think of them as drum mics and position them for a good overall balance of the ENITRE kit, perhaps excepting the bass drum.
Then if the snare isn't loud enough, add just enough close mic to the balance.

can you HAVE "too much snare" in a pop/rock record?

Yes,

Try and keep the overheads equidistant from the snare to keep the snare centered in the soundstage.

Sometimes, if it is extremely problematic, you can use the snare's signal as a side-chain feed to the overhead's compressor, and set it to act as a light ducker. You will un-doubtedly get some pumping in the cymbals, so see if it is a worthwhile trade-off.

What are you rolling the overheads off at? If you are looking for a "POP" sound, look for around 500-700Hz high pass. Nice n' bright with adequate low-mid filtering. This helps lots for the "Tight mic'ed" sound and a tight-gated snare.

What is your room like? Very wet? Try some acoustic treatments as well. A low ceiling will also add to this problem. I LOVE vaulted ceilings for drums.

Let us know... :cool:

Ig,

I would say your problem may be either the aiming or positioning of your mics. I personally would try to solve through mic placement prior to getting mixed up with effects.

Check these threads:

(Dead Link Removed)
(Dead Link Removed)

You will find a wealth of info on tracking drums.

Thanx for all the advise !!

Gonna try moving the mics around to hear if that helps. Perhaps getting them closer too.

Originally posted by wwittman:
I just said this somewhere else, but...
i'd go the other way.
Instead of thinking of them as "overheads" think of them as drum mics and position them for a good overall balance of the ENITRE kit, perhaps excepting the bass drum.
Then if the snare isn't loud enough, add just enough close mic to the balance.

can you HAVE "too much snare" in a pop/rock record?

Ahh...seasoned and well done. That must be how you like your steaks right wwittman?
Maybe you could tell us how you recorded The Joan Osborne record. I remember how great that record sounded (all the tracks). Was it ribbons out front?
Sometimes I can take a couple of paragraphs to succintly sum it all up...why others (usually with more experiance) can do it in a few sentences. :tu:

NOw that you're in this quiet place Recorderman: I still don't get how the ''double drumstick'' in the 2 mic technique can point DOWNwards from the center of the snare when placing the 'shoulder mic'...or is it downwards from the ''above head mice''???
Sorry for my ignorance and thanx!
Macmod.

Originally posted by macmod:
NOw that you're in this quiet place Recorderman: I still don't get how the ''double drumstick'' in the 2 mic technique can point DOWNwards from the center of the snare when placing the 'shoulder mic'...or is it downwards from the ''above head mice''???
Sorry for my ignorance and thanx!
Macmod.

1. First mic...directly over the snare pointing down at snare, as a starting point, you might eventually aim it at your rack tom, or hat, or...
2. Second mic , same distance from snare (where their stick hits is sometimes prefferred as the sopt to measure from) and at the same time equal disatnce from where the beater hits the kick. Adjust so the kick/snare is centered in stereo image. Height can very. Nothing is in stone. Thier are no Ten Commandments of Audio.
:c:

The drums on Joan's record were recorded with an SM-7 in the bass drum, a KM-84 on the snare and two STC 4038's (now Coles) back in front of the drums.
The 4038's were about 6 feet in front of the kit and about 4 feet wider than the kit on either side, looking in at about a 90 degree angle with the drummer as the focal point or third point of the traingle (if that's clear, which I HOPE it is!)

I also set up two Microtech-Gefell UM-71's, one over the rack tom and one pointing in sideways at the floor tom.
But I only ended up turning them on for about 2 songs.
(I think One Of Us WAS one where I used the tom mics).

All the drum mics went through a little Neve sidecar with 1066's, and I added an API 553 EQ on the bass drum as well (sorry, you 'no EQ, purists', sue me, I'm not subtle!)

And as suggested above, there's not usually much close snare mic in the mix, and no other cymbal or overhead mics; it's mostly those 4038's.

WW...they were done superbly...one of my favorite sonic experiences.Not to mention the acoustic guitars and acoustic instruments in general.Very nice.ANd I LOVE that vocal sound...gotta get me one of those Gefell mics...UM92....right?

Yes. We went out and bought a bunch of brand new Gefells. First, because i like them and they sound really good, but also because they all sounded the SAME out of the box.
It lended some real consistency that older mics just don't maintain.
Just today, at Avatar, we had up three U-47fets none of which sounded anything like the other.

So i used UM-70's and 71's on almost everything: guitars, organs, pianos, electric piano, toms...
and the UM-92 on Joan.
the only exception was the one track we cut at Pie where i used their mics (with a U-47 on Joan).
These days i love the UM-900 and probably would have used that instead of the 92 had it been available at the time.

Thanks Recorderman!
Macmod