I'm curious what "gay" sounds or looks like. Sorry, I've been out of elementary school for awhile.

I think it is some kind of rainbow thing.

I like Midas.

gay i think to have a high sssilibance.

I would have to second that Midas mention by Brian. They make great boards. I have used a few live and in the studio and I really wish I could afford one for myself. But I get by with my Mackie 24-8. It's in use pretty much as a monitor mixer only anyways so no point in upgrading unless I want a lot more decent pre's to use.

frob wrote: gay i think to have a high sssilibance.

LOL!!!

Hi,
I'm sorry, but if you're looking in the $15,000 range.. don't get a Midas.
For that kind of money, you owe it to yourself to check out some boards that are more suited for the studio.
Now, it depends what you need/want.
New vs. old?
How many channels?
Also, the whole "wow factor" thing is tricky. In the $15k range, name recognition will get you a nice Trident, but not a Neve, SSL or API... which are the names that 90% of garden variety musicians know.
You have to wiegh the "wow factor" with the "get them in the door with amazing results" factor... the later is usually cheaper.

Just my 2 pesos.
Seamus

well, all talk of the word "gay" used in a derogatory sense aside, what i'm looking for is 24 to 32 channels, something which (subjectively) will be an improvement over in the box mixing, and which contains great mic pres. basically i'm asking if i can get something good enough to justify the money, rather than mixing in the box and spending the $15k on these outboard pres:

api 3124+ x3
chandler tg2
gordon model 5
dw fearn vt2

it should also look like a solid bit of kit to the average musician who has seen a couple of studios, but wouldn't know the name neve from behringer, as i think 90% of them don't know anything about pro audio whatsoever, at least in my experience. as long as it leans towards the neve in the looks department rather than looking like an oversized mackie, i'll be happy. actually, i'd be happier keeping it digital rather than buying a cheap compromise of a desk, but i'm not financing the studio, someone else is, and they want the looks to impress and don't have a neve budget. anyone have an mci that isn't a maintenance hog?

looks looks looks looks.....???
Why?
Sounds like a gay idea for a gay studio with a gay engineer recording gay music.
but seriously...go for sound quality...isn't that what a recording studio is about??!!

15K isn't going to get you too far .... At that price you are best off thinking about a decent digital console .. like the Sony DMX 100.

As far as a "gay" console, I'm not sure what that meant? .... Would ia "gay sounding" console be purple with a permenantly engaged de esser on every channel so everything passed through it sounded as if it had a "lisp"?

jimbo_baby84 wrote: actually, i'd be happier keeping it digital rather than buying a cheap compromise of a desk

Please don't tell me you are calling analog a "cheap compromise"...

Kurt Foster wrote: 15K isn't going to get you too far .... At that price you are best off thinking about a decent digital console .. like the Sony DMX 100.

Kurt,

This is just not true...

Here's the results of a two minutes search I did for used consoles...many of them are absolutely KILLER (others aren't)...but as you can see, 15K will take you very far down the road...

From Blevins

Gotta wonder how many hundreds of thousands of GREAT recordings have been made using the non-API/Neve boards listed above.

looks looks looks? why? cos that's what the guy who's coming up with the money for this studio wants. i really don't want a digital desk, i'm not saying all analog desks are cheap compromises obviously, i'm asking whether desks at the $15k price point are cheap compromises and will do me no better than in the box mixing. the guy with the cash wants an impressive looking desk, i want an impressive sounding studio. even though if it was my investment, i'd personally stay digital unless i could afford a neve/ssl/api, it's not my investment, so i'm looking for a desk that will keep us both happy. thanks Midlandmorgan, that info is very helpful.

in what order would you guys rate the following brands (if you want to be model specific, so much the better!)

neve, ssl, api, mci, amek, otari, trident, mta, harrison, tac, soundcraft, soundworkshop, allen & heath, anything else

thanks everyone!

(by the way, get over the gay thing)

Yes, I know Randy Blevins ... I have done a load of business with him.

The TAC Scorpion, Mackies, CADs, AMEK Mozart, Harrisons (more for film and TV), and Langleys are either crappy sounding or antiques (arms auto? com'mon) ... the MCIs sound wonderful but are maintenance hogs, (I know, I owned a 636 and the 500 and 400's are even worse). I have never been very fond of the Soundcraft mixers .... even the large framed ones. The Sound Workshops are ok but have limited features and service is an issue ... The Tridents mentioned would be worth a look. The rest on that list are semi pro and not what he's looking for except for the old Sony 3036's ... those sound pretty good but like the Tridents, still are outdated in terms of automation and system control.

Blevins has more consoles in stock now than ever and why do you think all those consoles are up for sale? Because they are outdated ....

I love analog sound as much as the next guy ... and I do lament it's passing. But sometimes ya' gotta look up and read the writing on the wall.

there are ways to get as analouge mixdown summer with a digital desk (which would be cheaper) so get thouse pres and a big shiny digital desk or controler with a bunch of knobs, faders and blinking lights, and dont forget that long strip of vu meters. top run your DAW then you will have sound and the clients.

the first time client will come in and say "wow, look at all thoughs knobs and meters, i bet he uses them all, all the time."

OK Kurt, we can agree on a few things after all...the era of the big desk is nearly over, and most remnants are fossilizing pretty quickly...

I will argue regarding Harrisons...used a few and they were IMO non-intrusive, meaning they did not force a certain character on everything...whether that's a good or bad thing is up to the individual user...Mackies are usually as bad as people want them to be...etc...

That was not the point of my post, though...my post was to show that there are good units out there for far less than what you quoted....it took me two seconds to come up with that list...I'm sure that if someone invested a couple of hours, they would find a KILLER board at a KILLER price...

frob wrote: and dont forget that long strip of vu meters

Yes, my clients love the 24 VU meters on my Otari. And I use them too. I still might want to get a DAW in the future sometime... maybe when my clients quit asking for tape...

frob, i find your analog mixdown summer with a digital desk idea interesting, how does this work exactly? that would mean no analog eq right? so kurt are you saying i can't get a decent desk at this price? Midlandmorgan are you saying i can? god this is confusing!

i just found out there's a soundtracs solitaire just around the corner for under $5000. how is this desked, compared to an mci for instance?

I am saying, what I consider to be a good board is (1) going to cost much more than $15,000 or (2) is going to be so old and in need of constant maintenance, that in the long run it's gonna kill you.

The Soundtracs, and other less expensive tabletop mixers really aren't what you say you want. If you want real fat analog .... you're gonna need an 800 lb. behemoth.

Midlandmorgan,
Yes the Harrisons are good boards .... however they are / were mostly used in AV and film apps .... not really considered a production console. I can't say what the upkeep is like but I would at least consider the availability of parts before purchasing. Tech time can run $60 per hr. or even more and these guys usually charge drive time as well .... You really don't want to get into a big board unless you have customer service support, can afford an onsite tech or you know how to perform maintenance yourself.

When I had my MCI 636, I was spending close to $300 a month in parts and tech fees, to keep it in top running order. If you are doing a lot of business and cash flow isn't an issue, that's fine but if you are working by yourself or business gets slow, this can be the difference between sink or swim. Just be careful what you wish for, you might get it!

i have seen summing mixers with no pre, eq tranx caps or anything a compleatly passive summing mixxer but i cant remmember the name of it or where i saw it but it summer 24 chanels to 2 and fit in a 1ru space. i wish i could remmeber what it was called. but i just read my post and i didnt say anything about "no analouge eq" all my point is this. if you want the wow factor from your clients all you need is to things some shinny lights knobs, faders and vu meters and to preform, in the service industry (thats what this is) i dosent matter as mutch that you have the newest greatest thing as i matters that you get the job done right and make the client feel as though your services are worth the money paid.

well frob, i wish it was that simple, because i would have been happy enough to do in the box mixes with a tascam us2400 or some mackie control stuff to look cool for the clients/feel cool for me, but the guy financing the studio has his heart set on a big old desk, and $15k is the budget before we start compromising the other gear. i'm willing to concede the outboard mic pres if the pres in the desk are up to scratch, but i'm certainly not replacing dpa's, Neumanns, brauners & royers with rodes, studio projects etc. that's what i'll have to do if the desk is over $15k, so my position is a tricky one. maybe i should just let him get the soundtracs solitaire. from a quick google search, they tend to sell for more than the $5000 i saw one for. that way we can still get most of the cool outboard mic pres

thats a shame. i just saw a studio go under down round here, they had two and a half studios full of gear and only one operating studio. in the operating studio they had a PT control24 and 4 888. in there other studio they had trident desk. lots of initial wow factor when i auditioned my band there, then mutch dismay when i noticed no out board pres, and they the studio whent under before we got our recording back from the engineer(a suposed friend of ours)

hmmm. yep. it's a tricky one alright. control 24's have the look but i just can't justify so much money for something that has no impact on the sound. oh god, back to the drawing board...

a bit of movement on this front...i spoke with david peach (who makes some great outboard gear, and repaired some stuff for the studio where i used to work) and he recomended a soundcraft 6000 which a friend of his is selling. how does one of these compare with mci/api/neve/ssl etc?