Hi,
I have tested my JBL4410a with Alesis RA100 & HAFLER P4000. HAFLER sounds much better.

I have a Yamaha somthin'-or-other amp, it works fine for me... but I don't have JBL's.
I'd recommend Hafler all the way, I know a few people that have them and swear by them.

you might be able to find a used bryston 4B for that price too.

Michael Fossenkemper wrote: you might be able to find a used bryston 4B for that price too.

Mike
Do you think that a Bryston 2b is sufficient?

d-gautam wrote: Hi,
I have tested my JBL4410a with Alesis RA100 & HAFLER P4000. HAFLER sounds much better.

Hafler----Ive also heard good reviews from this amp.

I don't think a 2B would be umph enough. 4B would be the way to go. They're out there, just keep hunting. They also have like a 20 year warranty.

I actually *have* a 4B that I'm selling... Out of warranty, but... I mean, it's a Bryston for cryin' out loud... Did anyone's ever actually need repair? :lol:

Michael Fossenkemper wrote: I don't think a 2B would be umph enough. 4B would be the way to go. They're out there, just keep hunting. They also have like a 20 year warranty.

Why did I know you were gonna say that Mike?
I saw one go on e-bay about 500,plus s&h.
My main problem is the amount of room,the room I plan on using for mastering isnt but,15ft wide,and about 30ft long.

Massive Mastering wrote: I actually *have* a 4B that I'm selling... Out of warranty, but... I mean, it's a Bryston for cryin' out loud... Did anyone's ever actually need repair? :lol:

John,upon searching for reviews on the 2B,I stumbled on a review (for the life of me cant remember which one) where you used a 2B and praised the amount of dbs it was able to produce,do you happen to remember? :shock:

I believe I did... Can't remember where / for who...

Massive Mastering wrote: I believe I did... Can't remember where / for who...

Niether can I,but in the review,you mentioned having to use it as a back up for some reason or other,and was impressed by it.
I know that youre selling yours,but I have to keep in mind,that I dont have a nice "roomy" mastering room,and Im not pushing the big and bad ass Nautilus 803s (like someone I know :? )
THe JBL 4410As arent that big,but needless to say,it sometimes always happens to me that I end up with not enough.
I see about doing a search and see if I can find that thread.

Massive Mastering wrote: I believe I did... Can't remember where / for who...

Found it.
http://www.audioreview.com/mfr/bryston/amplifiers/PRD_116285_1583crx.aspx

I would advise against hafler amps. They are too grainy, in my opinion. The Bryston 4B is a nice amp, and some of the older Yamaha amps are quite good and affordable.

Zilla wrote: I would advise against hafler amps. They are too grainy, in my opinion. The Bryston 4B is a nice amp, and some of the older Yamaha amps are quite good and affordable.

HOw about a Bryston 3b?

The 3b has more than enough juice for most applications. If you really want to open it up a bit more though, the 4b will do the trick.

Also, check into some used B&Ks. They're very, very nice and can be found cheap sometimes.

J.

eddies880 wrote: HOw about a Bryston 3b?

I have not listened to them, so I can't speak from experience. 150W per side is kind of low. Would rather have 200-300W, personally.

Zilla wrote: [quote=eddies880]HOw about a Bryston 3b?

I have not listened to them, so I can't speak from experience. 150W per side is kind of low. Would rather have 200-300W, personally.

Really?? :shock:

Even with modestly sensitive speakers (say, 86dB/wm), you should be capable of sustained levels of 108.5 dB and, knowing Bryston's headroom capabilities, peaks of 111 dB for a good 50 ms or more. That's awfully loud.

I mean, I like more wattage too, but....150 is pretty nice for all but the biggest and most power hungry speakers.

Its not about loud. Its about control. Explained loosely: the more power an amp has, the more muscle it has to firmly control the movement of the speaker. Therefore less distortion.

I remember my first experience with amp overkill. I walked into a studio I was to work at and heard some NS-10's putting out some shockingly decent audio quality. I asked what they had done to the NS-10s. They replied "nothing". The reason was that each speaker had 500W behind it! Not for increase SPL, but for more accurate reproduction.

Zilla wrote: Its not about loud. Its about control. Explained loosely: the more power an amp has, the more muscle it has to firmly control the movement of the speaker. Therefore less distortion.

I remember my first experience with amp overkill. I walked into a studio I was to work at and heard some NS-10's putting out some shockingly decent audio quality. I asked what they had done to the NS-10s. They replied "nothing". The reason was that each speaker had 500W behind it! Not for increase SPL, but for more accurate reproduction.

That's making an interesting assertion - that two identical amplifiers with equal design but unequal capacity will put out completely different sounds with an equal amount of current flowing from the outputs.

(In other words - the Bryston 3B and 4B will sound different even if both amplifiers are putting out the equivelant of 50 watts...)

I understand the issue with headroom. Are you suggesting that an amplifier performing at 80% capacity will perform different than one performing at 60% capacity all other things being equal? I'm sure there is some, but what is the science behind that?

J.

Let's try this rough example...

A signal representing a loud kick drum hit is fed to a power amp. The amp responds by launching the speaker forward. As the initial positive half of the transient comes to peak and turns negative, so should the motion of the speaker. Exactly. The difficulty is that the forward moving speaker has inertia. Before the speaker can follow the negative signal and move inward, the amp must first brake the forward motion of the speaker. This is a power requirement that is not represented in the signal or expected reproduced acoustic power. The more spare power an amp has, the more firmly the amp will control speaker movement and avoid overshoots.

Zilla wrote: Let's try this rough example...

A signal representing a loud kick drum hit is fed to a power amp. The amp responds by launching the speaker forward. As the initial positive half of the transient comes to peak and turns negative, so should the motion of the speaker. Exactly. The difficulty is that the forward moving speaker has inertia. Before the speaker can follow the negative signal and move inward, the amp must first brake the forward motion of the speaker. This is a power requirement that is not represented in the signal or expected reproduced acoustic power. The more spare power an amp has, the more firmly the amp will control speaker movement and avoid overshoots.

That's called the damping factor and it is accounted for in most amps specs. There's usually little to no correlation between this and the amp's rated power.

j

There's usually little or no correlation between what is specified or between what happens in real life?

running an amp at near capacity will shorten it's life span IMO. I would rather run an amp at walk in the park capacity. It runs through a lot less amplifier stages.

eddies880 wrote: Got a brand new set of JBL 4410As,and about 500 bucks for an amp.
Any ides on an amp to give me that clean,quiet,transparant,true power to push the JBLs

I would guess the room would affect sound more than the amps you're considering. Enjoy the monitors! I have pair of the older, original 4410 mid fields - the ones with freq control for mid & high. I push 'em with an equally old (70's) Phase Linear 400 amp. It all comes down to the room.

+/- 3db of course :)

Dave P.

Michael Fossenkemper wrote: I don't think a 2B would be umph enough. 4B would be the way to go. They're out there, just keep hunting. They also have like a 20 year warranty.

I visited a local studio and noticed that they had a pair of ART SL1A amps,in the control room,the tech wasnt around so I wasnt able to hear them for myself,Im not so crazy on ART stuff,but then again,I havent heard them,,, thoughts Mike?

Sorry - I'm not Mike, but I'll answer.

ART is a paradox of a company. They are cheap, but in general, pretty damn good designs. However, their amps are *okay* at best. I certainly would not put it anywhere near the level of a Hafler or even Crown pro.

In any case, I wouldn't use ANY of the amps I just mentioned in my mastering studio.

I just followed my own advice and picked up a B&K, more for evaluation than anything else (ST3030 MKII). So far, I'm REALLY enjoying it. In fact, I dare say I enjoy it more than some of the more expensive amps I've heard recently. I'm currently enjoying Dvorak Symphony No 8 on LP (Cleveland/Szell) and REALLY dig the sound. Open, clear, not a hint of stridency and certainly not sterile. String basses are clean and clear; cellos are simply stunning! I'm noticing less of the background noise with this amp (not the amp's noise, the actual noise in the recording) than I have out of anything in a while!

I picked it up for $550 on Audiogon with the main intent of:
1 - evaluating it to see if I wanted to keep it (at that price, I can easily sell it with less than a 5% loss if need be).
2 - I need to get my Rotel in the shop (it's doing something a tad wonky - nothing major). When it comes back, it will be handling the surrounds and center - no longer will it power my fronts, the B&K has taken that role quite well now.

Good luck.

J.

eddies880 wrote: [quote=Michael Fossenkemper]I don't think a 2B would be umph enough. 4B would be the way to go. They're out there, just keep hunting. They also have like a 20 year warranty.

I visited a local studio and noticed that they had a pair of ART SL1A amps,in the control room,the tech wasnt around so I wasnt able to hear them for myself,Im not so crazy on ART stuff,but then again,I havent heard them,,, thoughts Mike?

Never listened to one, so can't comment. But from experience, if you are looking for a main amp, something you can rely on and keep for a long time and enjoy it, don't look for a cheap option. If it's a side amp or a backup, then you can skimp. The price difference between a nice used amp and a cheap new amp is small.

Dave Paton wrote: [quote=eddies880]Got a brand new set of JBL 4410As,and about 500 bucks for an amp.
Any ides on an amp to give me that clean,quiet,transparant,true power to push the JBLs

I would guess the room would affect sound more than the amps you're considering. Enjoy the monitors! I have pair of the older, original 4410 mid fields - the ones with freq control for mid & high. I push 'em with an equally old (70's) Phase Linear 400 amp. It all comes down to the room.

+/- 3db of course :)

Dave P.Finally !!! a 4410 user BITCHEN!..Im dieing to use my new 4410As ,but I want to make sure that the amp is giving me a true reproduction of the signals its recieving.
Ive taken the time and money to place bass traps, deadners etc... in my room,so I would gladly spend some bucks on a good and well known amp.

Michael Fossenkemper wrote: [quote=eddies880][quote=Michael Fossenkemper]I don't think a 2B would be umph enough. 4B would be the way to go. They're out there, just keep hunting. They also have like a 20 year warranty.

I visited a local studio and noticed that they had a pair of ART SL1A amps,in the control room,the tech wasnt around so I wasnt able to hear them for myself,Im not so crazy on ART stuff,but then again,I havent heard them,,, thoughts Mike?

Never listened to one, so can't comment. But from experience, if you are looking for a main amp, something you can rely on and keep for a long time and enjoy it, don't look for a cheap option. If it's a side amp or a backup, then you can skimp. The price difference between a nice used amp and a cheap new amp is small.I totally agree, I know from past expierence that you get what you pay for,Ive read TOO many good things on Bryston,so Im gonna keep ,searching,if not the 4b then the 3b.

Cucco wrote: Sorry - I'm not Mike, but I'll answer.

ART is a paradox of a company. They are cheap, but in general, pretty damn good designs. However, their amps are *okay* at best. I certainly would not put it anywhere near the level of a Hafler or even Crown pro.

In any case, I wouldn't use ANY of the amps I just mentioned in my mastering studio.

I just followed my own advice and picked up a B&K, more for evaluation than anything else (ST3030 MKII). So far, I'm REALLY enjoying it. In fact, I dare say I enjoy it more than some of the more expensive amps I've heard recently. I'm currently enjoying Dvorak Symphony No 8 on LP (Cleveland/Szell) and REALLY dig the sound. Open, clear, not a hint of stridency and certainly not sterile. String basses are clean and clear; cellos are simply stunning! I'm noticing less of the background noise with this amp (not the amp's noise, the actual noise in the recording) than I have out of anything in a while!

I picked it up for $550 on Audiogon with the main intent of:
1 - evaluating it to see if I wanted to keep it (at that price, I can easily sell it with less than a 5% loss if need be).
2 - I need to get my Rotel in the shop (it's doing something a tad wonky - nothing major). When it comes back, it will be handling the surrounds and center - no longer will it power my fronts, the B&K has taken that role quite well now.

Good luck.
Which B&K models do you suggest for mastering?
J.

Which B&K model are you talking about?

WEll,I finally gotta hold of a simple Bryston 2b and gave it a test drive, :shock: :shock: This thing has suprised me to no end,it plenty loud for my room,and for my ears.

eddies880 wrote: [quote=Cucco]Sorry - I'm not Mike, but I'll answer.

ART is a paradox of a company. They are cheap, but in general, pretty damn good designs. However, their amps are *okay* at best. I certainly would not put it anywhere near the level of a Hafler or even Crown pro.

In any case, I wouldn't use ANY of the amps I just mentioned in my mastering studio.

I just followed my own advice and picked up a B&K, more for evaluation than anything else (ST3030 MKII). So far, I'm REALLY enjoying it. In fact, I dare say I enjoy it more than some of the more expensive amps I've heard recently. I'm currently enjoying Dvorak Symphony No 8 on LP (Cleveland/Szell) and REALLY dig the sound. Open, clear, not a hint of stridency and certainly not sterile. String basses are clean and clear; cellos are simply stunning! I'm noticing less of the background noise with this amp (not the amp's noise, the actual noise in the recording) than I have out of anything in a while!

I picked it up for $550 on Audiogon with the main intent of:
1 - evaluating it to see if I wanted to keep it (at that price, I can easily sell it with less than a 5% loss if need be).
2 - I need to get my Rotel in the shop (it's doing something a tad wonky - nothing major). When it comes back, it will be handling the surrounds and center - no longer will it power my fronts, the B&K has taken that role quite well now.

Good luck.
Which B&K models do you suggest for mastering?
J.

Which B&K model are you talking about?

ST3030MKII

eddies880 wrote: [quote=Cucco]Sorry - I'm not Mike, but I'll answer.

ART is a paradox of a company. They are cheap, but in general, pretty damn good designs. However, their amps are *okay* at best. I certainly would not put it anywhere near the level of a Hafler or even Crown pro.

In any case, I wouldn't use ANY of the amps I just mentioned in my mastering studio.

I just followed my own advice and picked up a B&K, more for evaluation than anything else (ST3030 MKII). So far, I'm REALLY enjoying it. In fact, I dare say I enjoy it more than some of the more expensive amps I've heard recently. I'm currently enjoying Dvorak Symphony No 8 on LP (Cleveland/Szell) and REALLY dig the sound. Open, clear, not a hint of stridency and certainly not sterile. String basses are clean and clear; cellos are simply stunning! I'm noticing less of the background noise with this amp (not the amp's noise, the actual noise in the recording) than I have out of anything in a while!

I picked it up for $550 on Audiogon with the main intent of:
1 - evaluating it to see if I wanted to keep it (at that price, I can easily sell it with less than a 5% loss if need be).
2 - I need to get my Rotel in the shop (it's doing something a tad wonky - nothing major). When it comes back, it will be handling the surrounds and center - no longer will it power my fronts, the B&K has taken that role quite well now.

Good luck.
Which B&K models do you suggest for mastering?
J.

Which B&K model are you talking about?

ST3030MKII

eddies880 wrote: WEll,I finally gotta hold of a simple Bryston 2b and gave it a test drive, :shock: :shock: This thing has suprised me to no end,it plenty loud for my room,and for my ears.

If a 2B is working for you, great. Just make sure you aren't running it too hot. These amps have a thermal shutdown on them. You don't want to be in the middle of a session and have the amp shut down and have to wait while it cools off to continue.

Michael Fossenkemper wrote: [quote=eddies880]WEll,I finally gotta hold of a simple Bryston 2b and gave it a test drive, :shock: :shock: This thing has suprised me to no end,it plenty loud for my room,and for my ears.

If a 2B is working for you, great. Just make sure you aren't running it too hot. These amps have a thermal shutdown on them. You don't want to be in the middle of a session and have the amp shut down and have to wait while it cools off to continue.While I was searching for the Bryston,I came across an ART SLA 1 and SLA 2,and an amp from Alesis RS300,the ART SLA 1 is rated at 50w at 8ohm per side,and the SLA 2 is 100w at 8ohm per side,the Alesis is 90w at 8ohms per side.
I was very suprised at how well all amps sounded through the JBL 4410As,the Brston has more air to it,tighter low end,the Alesis much to my suprise had very good overall tonal quality,even at modestly low volumes.
In the future I plan on upgrading to a 3b,but I ll have to wait for my son grad from college,.leaving me his room as my control room. :lol: