Interesting discussion. (y)

Canada healthcare is great, but massively top heavy. Our healthcare system is way out of control.
The money spend on administration consumes a massive amount of public resources that could be used for actual healthcare.
Canada health care is not well designed to educate and reward those who look to better living practice. It is the cash cow for all things related to food and drug.
I love Canada and would not want to be anywhere else in the world. But I think we are going too socialistic. More and more administration is needed to keep track of all the paperwork. Someone has to pay for it all. People go to the doctor for a cut finger, sore throat, free drugs, insurance claims etc etc etc. And while all this is going on, there are actual people waiting for months to get the help that is really needed.

Health Care is based on needs priority here not who has the cash... so you have an urgent issue you get seen and attended to immediately. You have issues affecting work or your profession you get seen and treated quicker. You are younger and quality of life will be more affected by treatment - you get seen quicker. There's no such thing as pre-existing conditions or things that disqualify you for care or treatment relating to an insurance company wanting to profit and deny you treatment. Everybody - EVERYBODY is covered and has the same access to care.

This is funded through government (provincial and federal - but ultimately our taxes) and the funding is at a level where you get the biggest bang for your buck. We could allocate more money to funding but it's balance between needs (like I'm waiting to see a surgeon for a future hernia operation right now; it's been a few weeks - non-urgent). That whole process for me will play out over a couple months --- I'm cool with that. If I had the slightest issue with it being urgent I'd be in surgery as we speak. How much more funding would it be necessary to provide the system so that my non urgent hernia operation could happen the next day after my first doctor visit? Probably huge huge money. And I'd rather see a little kid get a fully funded wheelchair first, or a cancer patient get the best and latest chemo drugs.

Healthcare in any country is a pool -- the money goes in a pot and gets spent based on priority - it's all just math. Insurance companies want to eliminate people who cost them money (sick people - often poor people) from that pool and know that they can do so by charging more for coverage (and by denying coverage) to limit who gets in that pool. There's no denying that health-care costs money and the broader the population covered, the more expensive per capita it gets. That's why the US system has a prejudice against people that are actually sick and in need -- they want them put of the system. This is why in Obama-Care it was so important that everyone be insured -- because in order to cover the cost of sick people joining the system you need healthy people paying into it as well. That's where the whole mandate that made people get coverage came from.

Here's some basic math -- you have 20 people and they all pay $100 into the system -- and the average healthcare cost per person is $80 leaving $20 per person profit for the insurance companies... - $400 profit. That's a nice bit of business.
But you see that if we could eliminate the heavy users (say the sickest 5) buy either denying them coverage or by raising their rates beyond what they can pay you move to a system where 15 people pay $300 each for insurance and we can actually now double the amount of healthcare spending we give them (say $160 per person) - leaving a profit of $140 per person, or $2100 ----- this is the US system.

It just depends on the system you want. You can either wait a few weeks or a couple months for a non urgent hernia operation or you can participate in a system that costs you individually more money so you get seen immediately, and risk being ejected from that same system at any point in time at the whim of an insurance company, and watch while your neighbours (that single mom working to put food on her kid's table) suffer the consequences of not having health care while you hope never to be in her shoes.

Anyway - that's healthcare in Canada.

audiokid, post: 445533, member: 1 wrote: Interesting discussion. (y)

Canada healthcare is great, but massively top heavy. Our healthcare system is way out of control.
The money spend on administration consumes a massive amount of public resources that could be used for actual healthcare.
Canada health care is not well designed to educate and reward those who look to better living practice. It is the cash cow for all things related to food and drug.
I love Canada and would not want to be anywhere else in the world. But I think we are going too socialistic. More and more administration is needed to keep track of all the paperwork. Someone has to pay for it all. People go to the doctor for a cut finger, sore throat, free drugs, insurance claims etc etc etc. And while all this is going on, there are actual people waiting for months to get the help that is really needed.

This is true but it's not the result of socialism per say - it's the result of not having the will (or skill) to administer the system and police it.

But here's a little fact. I don't have a GP (family doctor) anymore. Mine retired and until recently I had not see a doctor for about 7 years.... a new clinic opened up where I live and my wife went there right away and signed up with a new GP.... since doing so about a year ago she's gone through 3 GP's at the clinic (on her 4th now) because they'll all moved out of province (back to Ontario) because they couldn't "afford" to live in Vancouver..... I get seen at the same clinic - but I was too late to actually sign on to a specific doctor so I see whoever is on staff when I come in.... Took me 7 days to get an ultrasound on my hernia and now I wait for the surgeon --- probably complicated by the holidays - so I expect to see one in January.

I have two family members whom are doctors and I too have worked for Northern Health in BC. I have seen a few sides of the system. Its a money maker good and bad.
Never the less, we are lucky to live in such a great country. Thank goodness there are people willing to go into medicine despite how hard they have to work to keep up with the demands.

Good luck on what you need done. Happy holidays as well.

audiokid, post: 445536, member: 1 wrote: I have two family members whom are doctors and I too have worked for Northern Health in BC. I have seen a few sides of the system. Its a money maker good and bad.
Never the less, we are lucky to live in such a great country. Thank goodness there are people willing to go into medicine despite how hard they have to work to keep up with the demands.

Good luck on what you need done. Happy holidays as well.

Thanks --- I'm going to be fine --- just a bit of a hassle because I can't run (I'm a runner).

Interesting note; first noticed the issue standing on the floor of a concert about 15 years ago.. tiny little pain.... nothing showed up until about 5 years ago - of course I've been neglectful.... typical man stuff - no time to deal with it... all my fault for letting it go on this long.

DogsoverLava, post: 445537, member: 48175 wrote: typical man stuff - no time to deal with it... all my fault for letting it go on this long.

isn't that text book. I hate going to the doctor or dentist. I make sure my family is looked after but neglect myself.
I wish dental was covered like healthcare. I have to see a dentist this week. $$ and needles. :eek:

I watched "Creed" last night

Spoilers ahead.....

So when Rocky got his diagnosis it wasn't the macho that made him turn down the chemo -- it was a certain sense of fatalism mixed with fair-play --- a "I had my run" mixed with "I'm not worthy"..... I get that. I'd gladly lay down my life for others but it's hard to accept certain efforts on my behalf.... we play the cards we're dealt -- to intervene or call for a re-deal violates a certain sense of fairness. I've got that self sacrifice gene all over me -- I need more of the self interest gene.

Socialism has become a naughty word in America. Omg, if you dare to say the word, you are labeled a communist. I don't see a problem with either word (the word, not the type of govt) I'll tell you why.

In America, health care is socialist. My wife and I (no kids) pay a family rate. If you are single, you pay 1x, if you are married, it's not 2x, it's closer to 3x. That's called the family plan. Anyone married pays the same rate as people with 18 kids. The people w/o kids are subsidizing the people with kids. That's socialism. But it's necessary.

Taxes are a socialist construct. Again, I don't have kids, but I pay the same property tax rates as people who are using the school system for 13 years. I'm paying for part of the library even though I don't use it etc. I'm not complaining, I'm simply saying when people in America use that word, "Socialism" it's an ill informed persuasion technique. "Socialism is bad, you want to pay for other people's stuff?" "I'm sorry Mr. 5 kids that you don't realize that people ARE paying for YOUR stuff. You aren't carrying the financial load of your family on your own, and I doubt you want to try it.

Since when don't we pay for other people's stuff? What kills me is it's often people with kids shouting this at me. But the word has been indoctrinated to only mean bad. The draft, is a socialist construct, military is a socialist construct. I could keep going. I have no problem with kids. I love kids. I'm not able to have my own bc of health problems. And I don't mind paying the extra share to make it affordable for the families that have them, bc, that's the future. And also because I'm a nice, rational, compassionate, human being. Not a Teddy Ruxpin with no brain, and just repeats the stuff on the tape he is fed. It's a little bit infuriating how people will just hear the buzz words and run with it, w/o actually looking to see whether what they are saying is true.

But often times you hear people shouting, "It's my wallet, not yours!" Or, "Stay out of my wallet!"

Well sir, if you have children, and you really don't want anything to do with Socialism, your financial future is very bleak indeed. I, and the 50% like me, are subsidizing your life, and I don't mind. All I ask is that you stop being a buzz word box and examine what you're saying. Socialism is helping you, it's hurting me. I could be self sufficient. The average family of 5, if not subsidized, could not. School in my area averages $10k per kid, per year. You telling me you have an extra $30k for 12 years (nm the health care cost).

Btw, none of that was directed at you audiokid (you were the first to mention "Socialism") I understand what you are saying. And actually, it's happening here too.

And as to what you said, even when it was completely capitalist, healthcare here was a bloated mess. Now people are complaining the costs are going up (they have gone way up. I used to pay $450 a month for two people, now it's $950. This happened in the last 3 years. People blame Obamacare etc...a lot of it has to do with the fact that they can't turn people away anymore bc of pre-existing conditions. The people with cancer have to be covered now, I have severe epilepsy, companies have to cover me now.

What I was more curious about was the fact that they say (here) that in Canada, you have to wait 6 months for an MRI machine etc. Because it's nationalized, it's run so poorly that people are getting sick and dying.

Is that part true? Basically, in this clip, Trump, covers what I'm talking about. In your experience, is any of this true? (I know it's a hack video, it's the Trump clip I'm concerned about)

Also, when he says that every year 45,000 Canadians come here for health care. Perhaps that's true, but I would like to also know the numbers for how many Americans leave the US for treatment....bc otherwise, that number is absolutely useless. E.g. They might quote that number....but 90K people may go from the US to Canada to healthcare. Know what I mean?It then has to be adjusted for population differences, diseases have to be categorized etc. I doubt that 45k people is the adjusted figure, and I find that disingenuous. It's the tactic of someone who is intentionally lying to you.

When they bring up the faults of the Canadian system (here in the USA) it's not cost they have a problem with, they say the treatment sucks.

A "Capitalist" took over an Aids drug company, and jacked up the price several thousand %, and people were angry. But it's his company, his drugs, and remember capitalism is THE ultimate....so it must be great! Let the aids patients die if they can't afford it, that's capitalism. But they are trying to force him to lower the price...that's socialism. Stay out of his wallet right?

I just can't understand how people can be so stupid, so utterly ignorant, that they can't recognize that we already live in a capitalist/socialist hybrid.

I mean if I, as a high school educated (though admitted genius ;) person can observe this on my own, surely...surely, the news pundits and people spreading this message can see it. But it's like the world is hypnotized by materialism. Lulled into stupidity and abject ignorance.

It's really weird.

Brother Junk, post: 445548, member: 49944 wrote:

What I was more curious about was the fact that they say (here) that in Canada, you have to wait 6 months for an MRI machine etc. Because it's nationalized, it's run so poorly that people are getting sick and dying.

Is that part true? Basically, in this clip, Trump, covers what I'm talking about. In your experience, is any of this true?

It's not true. Will there be examples you can find if you dig through the records? Yes --- statistical outliers not in any way reflective of the state of the nation. If you need an MRI and your issue is urgent in any way you get one right away. If you have a sore shoulder from chopping firewood all winter you might wait a few weeks or a few months... My niece (13 years old) was in the hospital for over a week last month. Had a weird viral thing that messed up her blood count and gave indications that it could be cancer. She had every test known to man including a full MRI - didn't have to wait 5 minutes for an MRI. Turns out it was a virus - nothing serious beyond that but she didn't wait nor was any expense spared in investigating her issues.

Like I said - I have a hernia I've been ignoring for years - finally went to the doctor -- said let's sort this out. Got an ultrasound about a week later to confirm some size and placement issues (also to ensure minimal risk of obstruction etc) and have a consult with a surgeon coming up (not scheduled yet - waiting to hear back). If the hernia was affecting my job or ability to live my life in any way I'd be bumped up on the queue and sorted much quicker. If it was in any way urgent (like painful, indication of obstruction in bowel etc) I'd be under the knife immediately - as in hours from complaint. I expect the surgery to happen sometime in January or possibly February. And when I get it I'll get first class care with a first class team with state of the art procedures and equipment --- and it wont cost me a dime. And no one will be looking at a balance sheet or raise my rate or consider me a burden on the system or seek to deny me coverage for any future need or want no matter if I'm working or unemployed or sleeping under a bridge. And if I move to a new province or change jobs I wont have any delay in getting immediate (continuous) coverage.

Also - as a Canadian (when I was younger) I traveled to the UK (we can get a 2 year work stay permit automatically if we are under 26). As I had just come out of a few years in the 3rd world (traveled a long time) I needed some medical attention -- got a doctor there immediately on the British NHS (National Health Service) --- saw doctors and specialists - got treated for all kinds of tropical nasties -- lived there for a year before moving on -- didn't pay a dime for my medical expenses.

Could our system be run better? Yes. Are costs getting higher? Yes. Is there waste and abuse? Yes. Do we enjoy a really good standard of health care and is it universally available to everyone? Yes. Is our life expectancy higher than that of the USA? Yes. Is our infant mortality rate lower than the USA? Yes. Do we still get HBO and see new release movies at the same time in the cinema? Yes.

Brother Junk, post: 445548, member: 49944 wrote: School in my area averages $10k per kid, per year. You telling me you have an extra $30k for 12 years (nm the health care cost).

Maybe my math doesn't work in English but 10k per kid for 12year is not 30k .. for 1 kid it's 120k ! just teasing ;)

I guess, we've been served too many lies and pretends both sides of the border.
Our actual governement just decided to give 400 million to doctors. Many were happy and others not. Some said oh yes, we don't have enough doctors ! Some said, they should take half and give in credit to the poor familly who need help for food. Some say the money of the doctors will go back in the economy and help sustain jobs. Other say ... etc...

I'm honest, I think too many people work in the administration of our system and far less that actually make the jobs done.
Our ministers don't need to go oversea to have better plans for us, just go in the street and ask around. What's wrong will become obvious.
Riches getting richer over the poors is a story that began with the invention of society. I'll bet my studio we will not solve this here today ! ;)

This is my understanding of the US healthcare system as a Canadian, it be may be the result of misleading information and some may be false information, and some may not go far enough in the actual truth - I don't know.

But, as I said it is my understanding that - in the past, before Obamacare - if you had a good insurance plan, you'd get fantastic care in the US. OR if you had the cash, you could get the care.

If you had a 'basic' plan, you would get great care, unless they cut you off for any of a hundred reasons - or delayed your care until 'it took care of itself.'

If you didn't have a plan, you might get emergency care - but you'd likely loose any property you had because of the bills you'd get charged for. Many people just didn't bother to get care because they didn't have money.

In Alberta - because of a previous government we have an odd situation where our medical insurance became totally paid for by the provincial government, but health care systems were reduced to lower taxes.

The current government has brought health care spending up and service is approaching quite usable in the majority of cases. I recently had a hospital visit suffering from what - for all appearances - was a heart attack. Luckily, it turned out to be a pinched nerve in my neck. But, during the night I had wound up on the floor of the bathroom unable to move, sweating, tightness in my chest, grey skin. Yeah - good times. Once I got to the hospital they hooked me up to EKG and determined it was not a heart attack. A few hours later I saw the emergency doc who ordered a CT scan to make sure I wasn't having a stroke. Within about 40 minutes the scan was done. In the end they could do nothing for me and sent me home with a suggestion of massage and acupuncture!

My girlfriend was stationed with forestry services out of town for 5 months, and because of her duties wound up with a pretty bad case of carpal tunnel syndrome - probably started before she went out actually. Within a month of getting back into town the surgery was done and she's now healing up. (A hint for anyone who needs that surgery - apparently you should go to a plastic surgeon as they do a much better job of it.)

So, in Canada and Alberta in particular, health care is very available - even when we did have to personally pay for it, it was $40 a month.

The people who go to the US for care are most likely not urgent care patients (so not at the top of the list) and have a lot of money and are not willing to wait for their turn in the regular system - which is okay because that does open up spaces for people who don't have money to fly to the US for treatment.

In the US, if someone works as a janitor or behind the cash register at a 7-11, what is their health care like?

DogsoverLava, post: 445558, member: 48175 wrote: It's not true. Will there be examples you can find if you dig through the records? Yes ---

Exactly....those examples will be in any health care system.

DogsoverLava, post: 445558, member: 48175 wrote: Turns out it was a virus - nothing serious beyond that but she didn't wait nor was any expense spared in investigating her issues.

I'm glad.

DogsoverLava, post: 445558, member: 48175 wrote: Could our system be run better? Yes. Are costs getting higher? Yes. Is there waste and abuse? Yes. Do we enjoy a really good standard of health care and is it universally available to everyone? Yes. Is our life expectancy higher than that of the USA? Yes. Is our infant mortality rate lower than the USA? Yes. Do we still get HBO and see new release movies at the same time in the cinema? Yes.

lol. All boxes checked!

pcrecord, post: 445561, member: 46460 wrote: I'll bet my studio we will not solve this here today ! ;)

lol. I think that's a safe bet

Neil Speers, post: 445571, member: 49793 wrote: But, as I said it is my understanding that - in the past, before Obamacare - if you had a good insurance plan, you'd get fantastic care in the US. OR if you had the cash, you could get the care.

Yes...

Neil Speers, post: 445571, member: 49793 wrote: If you had a 'basic' plan, you would get great care, unless they cut you off for any of a hundred reasons - or delayed your care until 'it took care of itself.'

The plan tiers, for the most part, are about how much you pay for services, and sometimes, what is covered at all. You don't get cut off really, but once something is discovered, you could be refused health care the next year. You enroll every year, so if they discovered you had something that would be very expensive to take care of, they just wouldn't cover you at all. Essentially, health care co's were picking and choosing who they wanted to cover. The blunder (blunder makes it sound unintentional, it's very intentional) their is that if you cherry pick your health insurance clients, you're going to leave the sick ones out...the ones who are actually in need of the service

Neil Speers, post: 445571, member: 49793 wrote: If you didn't have a plan, you might get emergency care - but you'd likely loose any property you had because of the bills you'd get charged for. Many people just didn't bother to get care because they didn't have money.

Everyone gets emergency care. The law has always been (way before Obamacare) that way. You will get a bill for it, and if you can show with your financial records that you can't pay for it, it gets absorbed by the hospital.

If the hospital deems that it's not "emergency" care, you could be refused. If you don't qualify for free care, you have to pay the bill. Which could easily be $10k depending on why you were there. So, yes, people were either desperate and losing their house, or they would just not seek care for fear of the bill.

Neil Speers, post: 445571, member: 49793 wrote: So, in Canada and Alberta in particular, health care is very available - even when we did have to personally pay for it, it was $40 a month.

Wait a minute, you guys don't pay for healthcare? Is it just done through a tax increase? Like I said, just for my wife and I, we are around $1k a month. ($950 every two weeks) and that is just the portion that we pay. The town kicks in (as most companies do) $2,400 per family this year. So, in my town, with my insurance, the family cost is $3400 per month. I pay $1k-ish, the town pays $2400-ish. It seems really ridiculous.

One thing I don't understand is (and I think this is paid media again) they say, "the cost of health insurance is skyrocketing!" And that becomes the verbatim quote people complain about all month. But when I look at the health care co's profits, they are also skyrocketing. So, is it that healthcare is more expensive? Or is it that insurance co's are just making more money? It seems like the latter. But again, no one seems interested in pointing that out? Increases get kicked down to the customers, while million $ raises are being given out to the health care ceo's. (I understand very well the reason for this, but most people aren't aware it's even happening).

Neil Speers, post: 445571, member: 49793 wrote: The people who go to the US for care are most likely not urgent care patients (so not at the top of the list) and have a lot of money and are not willing to wait for their turn in the regular system - which is okay because that does open up spaces for people who don't have money to fly to the US for treatment.

That is what I suspect. Which makes me angry (if it is so) that people quote that number. Lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Neil Speers, post: 445571, member: 49793 wrote: In the US, if someone works as a janitor or behind the cash register at a 7-11, what is their health care like?

They usually don't have it. It's simply not affordable. However, you are forced to have health insurance now, or pay a financial penalty. But the penalty costs less than Obamacare. I'll give you fake numbers to explain what I mean. Obamacare would cost the janitor, say, $3k a year. The penalty for not having it, is $600. So, a lot of young people, just choose not to have it. It's cheaper to pay the fine than the insurance costs.

It's a socialist system, there is no denying it. And Obama had the right idea, but the whole thing got massacred in congress. But young people need to be in the socialist system of Health Insurance...bc they are the ones who use it the least. So they need to cover the older people...and the younger people will cover them when they are old etc. Congress basically made it so that it doesn't work as well....bc of partisan politics. And it will only get marginally better (if at all) because Dems won't let Republicans be the ones to fix it now....they were the major party who tore up the bill structure in the beginning. But now they can fix it, and look like the heros.....but...the Democrats won't allow that...so they will tear apart the measures that republicans take to fix the bill.

They are like a bunch of kids fighting in a sand box, thinking they are the only sandbox that matters.

So, Obamacare, (Hillary was the one who started it actually, when Bill was Prez) was a good idea when it started....then it went through the house of reps and they took important stuff out. Then in the Senate, the republicans took more important stuff out. They basically made it so that it wouldn't work well, and then they will try to be the heroes who fix it.

I think it would be a mistake for Trump to repeal it. He has the majority in the House, the Senate, and the Presidency. They can ram a lot of stuff through. They should make Obamacare work, and claim credit....that would be the smarter play imo. No contest compared to repealing it.

$40 a month for health Insurance in Canada...when you DID have to pay for it? Wow.

p.s. I went to a hospital in Quebec one time. I was on a ski trip (it only takes me 4 hours to get there) and we had an off day, so we were going to see this Ice Hotel place. On the way, I had one of the biggest panic attacks I've ever had. I've had them since I was 18 or so....I've never gone to a hospital. I was in a foreign country, that spoke French no less, and I needed to go to a hospital.

It was terrible. Not because of Canada, but bc I was having such a severe panic attack (you feel like you are dying) and I'm wandering around the hospital trying to read signs, or find someone. It took me almost an hour in panic attack time (probably 15 min lol) to find someone. Then I sat there, explained, they made me a card that looked like a CC but it was red. And then about 30 min later, a Dr. came in and gave me an Ativan.

About a month later I got a bill for $400 and it was almost laughable for what ended up being 2 reasons. 1. I spent about 2 minutes with an actual Dr. and about 15 with a secretary type person. The $400 seemed a little unreasonable (this was in like 2003)... but at the point I was at, I would have paid anything for the panic attack to stop. But I assumed it's just bc I'm not a resident. But the second thing that was funny: I speak fluent Portugues, read, write, speak, translate...all of it. Spanish is very similar, so I can understand most of it, I can read it. I can speak it poorly and if you needed a translator, I'm better than nothing. But I also know a little French. I took it in school, I have relatives who live there and visit frequently... knowing other languages makes it easy to understand a 3rd, 4th, or 5th language etc.

In trying to figure out this bill over the phone, I was speaking my best French....I had a translation dictionary in front of me and everything. I remember a lot of the conjugations for simple sentences etc...and then I found out it's not the same French lol. Or if it is....they were pretending to have a very hard time with it. They put an English speaker on the phone after they could find one, and I spoke to her in a little French and said, "Am I that difficult to understand?" She replied, "No, I understand you fine. It's just that they are that difficult to impress. Next time just ask for an English speaker right away." lol...I hope there is no "next time."

Brother Junk, post: 445575, member: 49944 wrote: "Am I that difficult to understand?" She replied, "No, I understand you fine. It's just that they are that difficult to impress. Next time just ask for an English speaker right away." lol...I hope there is no "next time."

Reminds me of my time in Paris. I managed to generate a hilariously snooty look from a stereotypical French waiter when I was there. That was more memorable than the Centre Pompidou.

bouldersound, post: 445582, member: 38959 wrote: Reminds me of my time in Paris. I managed to generate a hilariously snooty look from a stereotypical French waiter when I was there. That was more memorable than the Centre Pompidou.

lolol....I wish I saw that look.

To be clear, the woman wasn't talking about "Quebec." She was talking about the people she works with. She intimated that they were snobby, but her tone made it pretty clear she was talking about her co-workers, not her province/area. My thought at the time was that she gets called a lot to take phone calls that she feels like her co-workers could have handled but they just don't want to. She seemed a bit irritated that they were making her take this call. But she was very nice to me.

I've actually never met a Canadian who wasn't nice. Even the woman who I felt was giving me a hard time was pretty nice. I'm sure not all of you are "top tier" people, but anecdotally...all of you have been lol.

Here's another one (that's too broad to google, opinions are better) The USA, is pretty much, constantly involved in a war somewhere, in order to promote American interests (e.g. suppressing communism from the 50's to the 80's, then after that, more forcefully aligning with oil etc). They are constantly putting people into power in other countries, taking people out etc. It's all hidden from the masses, but what I'm saying is fact, not conspiracy theory. E.g. Bush 2's regime knowingly lied about the WMD's and invaded Iraq...to employ a plan (I forget the name) that was invented many years earlier. That's why all that happened. The Generals seem to be the ones who really run the country. But if you pay attention, or research, you can see that this has always been like this...

Does that happen in Canada? ....Or maybe my question is what is the general sentiment of Canada's military actions/decisions? People here are really sick of it, but feel powerless to stop it.

Brother Junk, post: 445573, member: 49944 wrote: Everyone gets emergency care. The law has always been (way before Obamacare) that way. You will get a bill for it, and if you can show with your financial records that you can't pay for it, it gets absorbed by the hospital.

If the hospital deems that it's not "emergency" care, you could be refused. If you don't qualify for free care, you have to pay the bill. Which could easily be $10k depending on why you were there. So, yes, people were either desperate and losing their house, or they would just not seek care for fear of the bill.

So - in an emergency you'd better be really rich or dirt poor - the middle class gets the shaft.

Brother Junk, post: 445588, member: 49944 wrote: Here's another one (that's too broad to google, opinions are better) Do you guys get into wars that the Country disagrees with? The USA, is pretty much, constantly involved in a war somewhere, in order to promote American interests (e.g. suppressing communism, aligning with oil etc). They are constantly putting people into power in other countries, taking people out etc. It's all hidden from the masses, but what I'm saying is fact, not conspiracy theory. E.g. Bush 2's regime knowingly lied about the WMD's and invaded Iraq...to employ a plan (I forget the name) that was invented many years earlier. That's why all that happened.

Not nearly as often as the US and it's always to support the US or other ally (because it makes good politics).

Brother Junk, post: 445588, member: 49944 wrote: To be clear, the woman wasn't talking about "Quebec." She was talking about the people she works with. She intimated that they were snobby, but her tone made it pretty clear she was talking about her co-workers, not her province/area. My thought at the time was that she gets called a lot to take phone calls that she feels like her co-workers could have handled but they just don't want to. She seemed a bit irritated that they were making her take this call. But she was very nice to me.

Actually - it's a large number of the French speaking population that gets snooty (not all but some) - they are a minority in the country and even though French is an official language they know they could be overrun by English language and culture from both the rest of Canada and the US, so they do what they can to defend their way of life.

What I find really interesting was going to restaurants in Quebec I found the service was far better than I've seen in the majority of the rest of Canada. Even when I could tell the server was kind of pissed that I didn't speak French – I still got better service than I usually do elsewhere. Amazing. I love visiting Montreal - don't want to live there but its a great place to visit.

Neil Speers, post: 445592, member: 49793 wrote: What I find really interesting was going to restaurants in Quebec I found the service was far better than I've seen in the majority of the rest of Canada. Even when I could tell the server was kind of pissed that I didn't speak French – I still got better service than I usually do elsewhere. Amazing.

I agree. I didn't get that vibe anywhere but the ski slopes, but the service everywhere was better. Everyone is just, nice?

It's weird lol.

Brother Junk, post: 445588, member: 49944 wrote: The Generals seem to be the ones who really run the country. But if you pay attention, or research, you can see that this has always been like this...

Does that happen in Canada? ....Or maybe my question is what is the general sentiment of Canada's military actions/decisions? People here are really sick of it, but feel powerless to stop it.

No the banks and a small group of rich people secretly run the country...
It all started when our government let the banks create the money instead of doing it itself. Now our governement can't pay the national debt so the bank owns us...
Legally, the government could overun this and become the one who create money and loan it to the banks with profit. But they won't, because the need money to get elected so.. it's a vicious circle...

pcrecord, post: 445594, member: 46460 wrote: No the banks and a small group of rich people secretly run the country...
It all started when our government let the banks create the money instead of doing it itself. Now our governement can't pay the national debt so the bank owns us...
Legally, the government could overun this and become the one who create money and loan it to the banks with profit. But they won't, because the need money to get elected so.. it's a vicious circle...

And the government forms (left, right centre :rolleyes:)> NDP (same as the Democratic), Liberal , Conservative (same as Republican) parties to "serve".... which is all BS special interest regardless of the party (imho).
We continue being screwed over like mindless robots marching the assembly line.

It takes 10 people to dig a hole in Canada. And another 10 to sort out the paperwork and deal with Unions, grievances, accidents, claims, disputes, strikes, ... . Then insurance, lawyers, doctors are all lined up with their hands in it as well while the Drug companies keep us coming back for more.The drug companies control everything. In fact... I'm told 2 companies pretty much own all the products in our Grocery stores. They dictate who sells and grows food. They write the rules and restrictions.
Good thing we have high taxes, I don't know how else we would keep it all going so well.
Good thing we have natural resources to sell. I just don't know how else we would keep all the people in offices busy.

Collection agents are busy. They must be coining $$$ it.
Good thing the Chinese are buying our homes here. Its sure giving the baby boomers a big chunk of money. Vancouver homes that cost 30 thousand in the 60's are now selling for 2 million dollars and up.
The young families can only now dream of owning a shack with a 40 year mortgage.

Yup... good thing we have this awesome healthcare, run by the drug companies..

audiokid - actually Canadian personal taxes are very middling, lower now than in the US and way below most European taxes. If you want low taxes - go to Russia, there its about 15%.

And I'm glad my local - fairly independent - grocery store carries a lot of foods that aren't from the big suppliers. Quite interesting to walk in there occasionally and see some really odd things, some of which have become favourites.

Neil Speers, post: 445607, member: 49793 wrote: audiokid - actually Canadian personal taxes are very middling, lower now than in the US and way below most European taxes. If you want low taxes - go to Russia, there its about 15%.

really? Thats funny, I live in Canada and my taxes are around 35%. And I also have to pay for other things too. But I'm not complaining about taxes. I am complaining about the lame way we run our resources and how TOP heavy we are with administration BS. If you don't know that, you need to get out of your bubble. No disrespect intended either.

Neil Speers, post: 445607, member: 49793 wrote: And I'm glad my local - fairly independent - grocery store carries a lot of foods that aren't from the big suppliers. Quite interesting to walk in there occasionally and see some really odd things, some of which have become favourites.

Well you are lucky to have independent grocery stores in Calgary that carry all you need. I'm not complaining about the amount of food available either. I am discussing who owns the aisles in the stores; and how that relates to the drug companies; ;) which is related to our health system; ;) which is related to politics ;).

I try and support health food stores. Which do carry some of the main stream stuff too.

Being said, I don't think you understand my comments at all. But that's okay. I'd rather be playing a guitar and not worrying about all this crap..

If you look around big name grocery stores, we have a lot of the same products coming from the USA and abroad. We are connected.
Last time I looked, I don't see much in the way of agriculture in Northern BC either,
Whats interesting, so I am told... most products sold in these stores (toothpaste, vitamins, canned food, dog food, flour, sugar etc) are owned by about 2 or 3 companies. If you research who these companies are, I'm also told they are likely the same drug companies writing the rules, setting quotas, dictating who sells what. Always controlling. Its a big topic, not in the least what I want to expand on in a music forum but if we think our country is so free, I'm glad for those who are innocent thinkers just going along with the flow.

Neil Speers, post: 445607, member: 49793 wrote: If you want low taxes - go to Russia, there its about 15%.

Suggesting to move to Russia. I think I'll pass. . Again, I'm fine if our taxes were 70% and it was actually going to good use.
I think we are due for an overhaul in quite a few areas. Health care is one of them. I'd like to see more tax put on junk food, the products full of chemicals that make us sick.

Happy Holidays.

No - I get what you're saying, I totally agree with parts and disagree with some. Lovely thing about freedom, we can do that.

And yes I do occasionally shop at Safeway and similar stores and see the crap that gets sold by the monopolies.

And I wasn't seriously suggesting moving to Russia- but you knew that.

Oh - and the US taxes, most recent figure I saw 39% and they have sales taxes too.

Reform the system - hell ya.

Let's get on that.

Not that we need to high jack this thread with politics ;-)

Neil Speers, post: 445610, member: 49793 wrote: Not that we need to high jack this thread with politics ;-)

I think I'll stay safe and hold steady on threads about healthcare and drug companies. I don't want to talk politics right now. :)

... but I had indicated sometime back in December that I was going to get a hernia surgery at some point in the new year -- well it happened Ttursday -- so from GP referral to surgery for non emergency surgery was just over 3 months or so which included separate visits and appointments to get ultrasound, surgical consult, blood lungs and heart testing (all pre surgical) then the operation itself - the timeline was further influenced by the holidays basically making December a write off. Just an FYI for guys who might have been curious on the timeline.

I'm 48 hrs post and doing pretty good. creeping around the house and getting good after care by my wife. pretty big procedure in the end - the hole in my belly (umbilical) was the size of a Golf ball -- 6 scopic type incisions as far as I can tell plus whatever crazy mesh and stitching they did internally....