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anonymous 21 April 2002

i'm looking for an upgrade to our studio, was thinking of the radar or the d8b bundled w/ HDR2496 Recorder. i need some serious help making this choice, i will still be dumping ot a NUENDO DAW for some editing

thanks

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pete Sun, 04/21/2002 - 16:21

the Radar is getting great raves and is a really cool machine... I would stay away from the D8b , I did head to head tests with a D8b and Panasonic Da-7 a few years back and the Panasonic was the clear winner to me.... not a slam to D8b ( although the problems with it are well documented) just a preference on what sound I like and the way I like to work.... I just read there is a new problem with the D8B where it is actually not putting out at 24 bits in Vs3.0 it is actually puts out at 16 (check out the mackie forum it is on there I believe) go to http://www.da7.com to check out the panasonic. Good Luck. I enjoy other mackie stuff I have the 824's, a couple 1604's for live stuff and the MDR ( which sounds great to me!, couldn't afford the RADAR) I just didn't find the D8B worth it.... :)

anonymous Sun, 04/21/2002 - 18:19

Originally posted by Henchman:
Actually, one of the main things with the Mackie is to use an external wordclock. We went with the mackie, becasue of the number of inputs etc.

mark

Henchman,

I was reading today on the Mackie forum that people are upset over the fact that the D8B has been marketed as a 24 bit mixer but is only actually putting out 16 bits. The link is:
http://www.mackie.com/scripts/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001562

We have used the Panasonic DA 7 at iZ and have found it to be a great digital mixer. However alot of us like the spirit analog mixers. They are relatively inexpensive and sound great.

If you are concerned about the cost of RADAR - we now have four versions of the product that range from $6k to $14k. We are announcing a digital only version at $4k this week.

Call Dale, Dave or Eric at iZ: 1-800-776-1356 if you want details.

sjoko Sun, 04/21/2002 - 18:57

I have used Radar's every now and then over the years, from version 1 to the current model.
Twice I used Radars on the road.
One thing in all that time has never happened to me while using Radars - they never froze, I never lost anything, and they always work. Can't say that of anything (and I mean anything) else digital I've ever used.
On top of that, now Otari no longer functions as the middle man, the pricing has come down to an acceptable level.

Of cause you'll need a front end. But, really, there are so many good analog boards for sale second hand, and if you have a look around you'll be able to find some world class gear for well under $20K, which simply leaves any Mackie or Panasonic in the dust.
Some examples?
Odyssey Pro Sound has a D&R Triton 32x16 in-line, with VCA automation, PC & monitor and a complete patchbay for sale for $13.800 Now that is a top quality, outstanding sounding console. More?
Amek Angela(blue)32x24 TT bay, Mega Mix Automation, exc. cond. $13.000
Amek Angela 28x24(blue) TT bay + producers desk, rechipped 1999 $9.600
Trident 24 28x24x24 one owner $12.500
That's just a selection from one second hand supplier!
And, with every single one of the above mentioned consoles you'll have far superior pres, eq's etc than you'll ever find on a Mackie or Panasonic.

Conclusion - Radar for recording, with good sound and good editing facilities. And a good second hand console. I'd gladly do a whole project on such a combo.
(I once did one on a D8B and ADAT's - the only time I used either - and the last time as well)

Scott Gould Sun, 04/21/2002 - 23:18

Yeah, Mackie really #@%&ed up on the version 3 software for the d8b. If you use the analog inputs and don't adjust the level to tape off unity gain on the multitrack outs, the board puts out 16 bits to tape (HD). Since I don't use the d8b's converters it doesn't affect me, but a lot of users are pissed. I'm curious about the digital only Radar, since I was thinking of getting another Mackie HD - what would be the advantage of the Radar. Everyone I hear singing the praises of Radar specifically mentions the converters. A Radar sans converters is just another way to move bits to a HD - Yes? No? ...

Scott

Guest Mon, 04/22/2002 - 02:50

The Yamaha DM2000 looks to be the new kid in town, it has a load of tracks all already at 96k + great connectability, it's not too big a footprint either... I've had a look at one..

Al those analog boards mentioned above will be 'dying' - or full of crackle and parts crapping out - or about to...

It appears, from spkldbrd's original post, that it would be cool to stay digital.

pete Mon, 04/22/2002 - 04:30

Originally posted by sjoko:

Of cause you'll need a front end. But, really, there are so many good analog boards for sale second hand, and if you have a look around you'll be able to find some world class gear for well under $20K, which simply leaves any Mackie or Panasonic in the dust.
)

I agree with part's of what you say if you have that kinda cash to throw around:) You can get a Da-7 at a large instrument retail "center" ( dont know if you can mention names on this board) right now for $2000.00 w/out cards.( I paid $5000 for mine 3 years ago.) thats alot of extra change for outboard, I use my Da-7 for mixing a/d conversion and controling all my midi stuff. It has worked flawlessly from day one sounds great, automation is great, I sold an AMEK Magnum ( which I paid $23,000for) and have never looked back. While I am sure it isn't the answer for everyone... It works everytime does what it says it does and sounds good. My humble two cents.

anonymous Mon, 04/22/2002 - 05:15

Originally posted by DigitMus:
...I'm curious about the digital only Radar, since I was thinking of getting another Mackie HD - what would be the advantage of the Radar. Everyone I hear singing the praises of Radar specifically mentions the converters. A Radar sans converters is just another way to move bits to a HD - Yes? No? ...

Scott

Hi Scott,

Yes, but... while RADAR is known for it's converters it is also known for reliability and ease of use. When you want to get it done and stay in the creative groove you need to keep the flow. Interruptions to the creative process can be costly and make or break the song. Once you have used a RADAR - even if only a digital version - you'll experience this and not want to go back.

anonymous Mon, 04/22/2002 - 09:04

It would seem that one approach/upgrade path might be one of the new digital mixers, plus RADAR for storage/"tape". Probably in at less that $20K for both if you shop well.

Then later add the RADAR converters if you become convinced that they offer the sound you need.

It gets more interesting all the time....

anonymous Fri, 04/26/2002 - 01:34

Originally posted by Mike O:
It would seem that one approach/upgrade path might be one of the new digital mixers, plus RADAR for storage/"tape". Probably in at less that $20K for both if you shop well.

Then later add the RADAR converters if you become convinced that they offer the sound you need.

It gets more interesting all the time....

We now offer a Digital Only version of the RADAR Project for $3995. It's not on our web site yet. Hope this helps

pete Fri, 04/26/2002 - 18:08

Originally posted by Ted Nightshade:
Oh, and PeeTee and others,
what is the support like for the DA7? Panasonic has really pulled out of pro audio stuff in the US (US may be pregnant anyway), which makes me wonder if those things are so cheap at the GC because the are virtual orphans....
Sob....
?
Ted

From What I have encoutered the support is still in tact. I have had only one problem in 3 years of runing mine 7 days a week ( a minor software glitch from inferior power when a transformer blew outside my house) I posted it in on Da-7 and called panasonic within a 1/2 hour I had gotten a telephone call and email from 2 different techs from Panasonic who got me back up and running instantly ( the problem has not repeated itself) can't say that has ever happened before or since. so as far as I know no-one has been abandoned on this product anyway, Maric on that board is a tech rep who keeps everyone up to date on where to go and who to go to, panasonic just did an upgrade on the board where you could update to a MKII and a Fan and Talkback MOD on there as well... anyway I feel supported:)

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