therecordingart wrote: I'm also sick of using SM57's on toms.

F*ck a 57 on toms!!!
I hate a damn 57 on toms! The D2 is nice, real nice! I have one. Use a good pre amp, and a "tom" mic. IMO a 57 is NOT a "tom" mic
I know some people like a 57 on everydamn thing under the Sun. But not me! A 57 has it's place, but not on a tom :!:
I'm done ranting :oops:

My recordings sound like an F'ing SM57 because they are on the snare, toms, guitar cabs.....nothing gets it's own space!

Art,

I have the audix DP5 kit [d1,(2) d2, d4,d6] and im very happy with it. $650 for 5 killer mic drums is a good buy.

therecordingart wrote: My recordings sound like an F'ing SM57 because they are on the snare, toms, guitar cabs.....nothing gets it's own space!

Well 57 is only bunch of advertisment and works OK on prety much everything.As a singel mic just sucks on everything.

I've been using the e604's for a couple of years (and 602 on kick). They're very natural sounding to my ears. The drummer who does the majority of work here refers to the tom sound as the "Ringo" sound, if that helps. Sometimes if there are only two toms in the kit, I'll take the 3rd one and clip it to the bottom rim of the floor tom for a clapper mike.

stickers wrote: Art,

I have the audix DP5 kit [d1,(2) d2, d4,d6] and im very happy with it. $650 for 5 killer mic drums is a good buy.

I have this same DP5 drum mic kit. I love it as well. Very nice mic's!
I paid quite a bit less for them however. :roll:

re

I have used a beta56, e609, AT pro25, a nice radioshack drum mic (kind of looks like the e604), beta 57, beta52 and md421 on toms. I've yet to try a condensor on toms. But in my experience I think that drum sound is more important that the mic, if you have the tunning and the correct drum size for the sound you want then you can move to the mic, and the ones i've like the most would be the pro25- nice smooth low, needs some 4k sometimes though to cut through, and and i've recently tried my e609 with good results on the rack tom, the placement of the 609 is so easy due to its side adress diaphram. I wasn't too happy with the beta56, so i use that as my under snare mic, and surprisingly I do enjoy my radioshack percusion mic, its small has good cut through sound, it just doesn't have much lowend, it says it will go down to 70hz but it seems more like 100-120hz. as for my floor tom i will sitck with my beta52, md421, or the pro25. right now my kit is miced with an e609 on the rack tom, and the md421 on my floor tom going into my nice stock dps24 pres, but i do like the beta52 on the floor tom too.

here is a link of just something our band is working on, this is just a scratch recording but uses the above mics for the toms. I am just a hobby recordist and do some work for other bands, so i'm not a pro engineer and i've not used lots of mics on toms going through really nice pres and comps, that would make a big difference in the sound of the mic too.

http://www.songramp.com/view.ez?sampleid=30525

enjoy, and let me know what mics you end up getting.

bob

its that guy again wrote: ....... A 57 has it's place, but not on a tom :!:

Is it down the drain ???

Not a 57 fan at all..
They are a close range mic with a really dull responce...
When I head to a studio and they start unpacking 57s i start packing back up...
I've found it's useually old live techs that swear by them...
"I've had 25 years of live experiance.............and a 57 is the Bee's Leg joint"

And yes, I know the Snare on "Thriller" was recorded with a 57, :roll:
I'm just sick of there tone....
:wink: :wink:

flexo wrote: Not a 57 fan at all..
They are a close range mic with a really dull responce..

:lol:
I am soooo glad that others hear the same thing I hear in a 57.
I am certainly NO genius. But my ears work just fine. And 57's are not as good as alot of "just as good mic's" out there. (my opinion)
IMO my Audix mic's are all better than any of my Shure mic's.

well that is not true.
I do own the 44 and for dark sounding vocals or instruments is very good.
I love it on chelo,upright bass,even dark sounding violin.

impro wrote: the 44

I guess you are referring to the KSM44. Sorry I don't have one. I have heard great things about the KSM44. I also hear great things about SM57's also. :? And I have 3 of those. I imagine I will have a KSM44 one day as well. But I wonder about that. Maybe I could just skip it and go a Neumann U 87 ai.

i think it comes down to the source. To say that the 57 is a crappy mic or that an audix mic will beat it out in all situations is ludicrus. If you put a 57 on every snare drum you record then you have problems, but matching the mic to the source is the key. There are some kick drums where i've exhausted all possibilities and found that the 57 sounds better than anything else. Thats after i've tried a D6 and beta 52. I also prefer the 57 to 421s on many rack toms. Sometimes i don't. I'm still a fan of them on guitar cabs, but if it doesn't sound good i don't blame the mic, i go grab another one. But i still find myself going to a 57 over many other mics quite often for snare drums, the beater side of kick drums, and rack toms. But it is important to have a good source first. I perfectly tuned kit in a perfect room will sound incredible with 2 kareoke mics.... trying to fix inadaquacies in the drums tone with a microphone is the wrong way to look at it. If you want a rock tom sound then go out and buy some rock sounding toms. Then it won't matter what mic you use.

K

Kswiss wrote: If you want a rock tom sound then go out and buy some rock sounding toms. Then it won't matter what mic you use.

Very true!
.... And after that .....try miking it with a "tom" mic. :lol:
NOT a frinkin 57! :lol: hehe

its that guy again wrote: [quote=impro]the 44

I guess you are referring to the KSM44. Sorry I don't have one. I have heard great things about the KSM44. I also hear great things about SM57's also. :? And I have 3 of those. I imagine I will have a KSM44 one day as well. But I wonder about that. Maybe I could just skip it and go a Neumann U87 ai.

Well U87 is a whole other level of microphones.I wish I had only 87 for everything even toms,and hi hats but well KSM44 is $600 and u87 is over $2000.
A lot of people do not like dark sounding mics.But I kinda dig thr 44 on strings,double bass.It is very clear sounding with less output and dynamics then my tlm 103.
I personaly favor TLM 127 over U87.BUt that is me.

By the way every audix I have heard"mostly on allen and heith mixer wich preamps sounds very well" sounded very small.

Kswiss wrote: i think it comes down to the source. To say that the 57 is a crappy mic or that an audix mic will beat it out in all situations is ludicrus. If you put a 57 on every snare drum you record then you have problems, but matching the mic to the source is the key.
There are some kick drums where i've exhausted all possibilities and found that the 57 sounds better than anything else.

Well I am sorry I do not want to be mean or pick on you but this statement is just nonsense.

Thats after i've tried a D6 and beta 52. I also prefer the 57 to 421s on many rack toms.

I guess something in your chain is weak to say that.Preamps?Room?AD converters?

Sometimes i don't. I'm still a fan of them on guitar cabs, but if it doesn't sound good i don't blame the mic, i go grab another one. But i still find myself going to a 57 over many other mics quite often for snare drums, the beater side of kick drums, and rack toms. But it is important to have a good source first. I perfectly tuned kit in a perfect room will sound incredible with 2 kareoke mics.... trying to fix inadaquacies in the drums tone with a microphone is the wrong way to look at it. If you want a rock tom sound then go out and buy some rock sounding toms. Then it won't matter what mic you use.

K

I am not saying 57 si crap.It is good for the price and sounds desent on almost everything in home recording...But to be a choice in a studio is just plain wrong.
By the way I hate how the snare sounds in thriller. (-:

impro wrote: Well U87 is a whole other level of microphones.
A lot of people do not like dark sounding mics.
By the way every audix I have heard"mostly on allen and heith mixer wich preamps sounds very well" sounded very small.

I can dig it. But first I feel I must agree with you that the "U87 is a whole other level of microphone". And I would like to add, in comparision, that the Shure KSM44 microphone and the Shure SM57 microphone is also "a whole other level".
But, I LOVE dark sounding mic's. So with your words (and like many, many others on here) I will most likely have a KSM44 sooner than later.
As far as the Allen & Heath pre-amps are concerned....I try REAL hard NOT to use those at all. They are everything that sucks about a compact mixer. It is worth what I paid for it, I just need to upgrade soon. My taste are way too high for budget type gear.
Even though I'm...on a budget :lol: :(
What I will say about the A&H pre's and an Audix OM6 is, it sounds, O.K. at best.
But with the same pre's and a SM57, it still sounds, just O.K. but with a little more bass (in the lower end). And I hate all that bass in the vocals, but maybe it's just my voice.
Now, just forget those damn Allen & Heath pre-amp's. When I use my Great River MP2NV the Audix mic's, it sounds AWESOME. And the SM57's are just not as good, again could just be my voice, my ears, whatever.

its that guy again wrote: [quote=impro]Well U87 is a whole other level of microphones.
A lot of people do not like dark sounding mics.
By the way every audix I have heard"mostly on allen and heith mixer wich preamps sounds very well" sounded very small.

I can dig it. But first I feel I must agree with you that the "U87 is a whole other level of microphone". And I would like to add, in comparision, that the Shure KSM44 microphone and the Shure SM57 microphone is also "a whole other level".
But, I LOVE dark sounding mic's. So with your words (and like many, many others on here) I will most likely have a KSM44 sooner than later.
As far as the Allen & Heath pre-amps are concerned....I try REAL hard NOT to use those at all. They are everything that sucks about a compact mixer.

Well the noise is huge but musicly they sound very decent.I don't use them at all just sometimes house engineers do not let me have the signal before the mixer so i get the direct out.REaly I am amazed how well they sound for a mixer.Preamp and Qs.A lot more musical then ONYX.

It is worth what I paid for it, I just need to upgrade soon. My taste are way too high for budget type gear.
Even though I'm...on a budget :lol: :(
What I will say about the A&H pre's and an Audix OM6 is, it sounds, O.K. at best.
But with the same pre's and a SM57, it still sounds, just O.K. but with a little more bass (in the lower end). And I hate all that bass in the vocals, but maybe it's just my voice.
Now, just forget those damn Allen & Heath pre-amp's. When I use my Great River MP2NV the Audix mic's, it sounds AWESOME. And the SM57's are just not as good, again could just be my voice, my ears, whatever.

impro...i find your statements equally nonsensical.... if the sound that i am going for is a snare drum through an sm57 than only an sm57 will work. I think your misunderstanding me. If i try 30 microphones and the 57 is the one that i like the best, then there is no better alternative for that specific source. I'm not saying the 57 is my favorite mic. On many sources i hate it. Including many snare drums. I'm not saying its the only mic someone should grab for rack toms. I am saying that on some rack toms it sounds better than a 421. On some it doesn't. You match the mic to the source..... I have a decent array of mics pres and gear at my disposal, and i've worked in pro studios. At one session in a pro studio in my area, we had to stop the session and buy an SM58 because it was the only mic that worked on a particular song for a particular snare drum. I've had to go home from several pro studios to grab a D6 because it was the only mic that worked for a certain song on a certain bass drum. I have audix mics that i use for drums all the time, but sometimes a 57 sounds better. I'm not saying it should be pulled out for every source, as its not an end all by any means. But to some engineers, including me, it works well on some sources, and my clients tend to agree. If you have other mics that you think work better than thats your choice, but do not personally attack me because i think different. There are more expensive mics out there, but only the 57 sounds like a 57 and if thats the sound i'm going for than i use it. Make sense? I'm not trying to attack you, i'm trying to say that sound is subjective and no two snare drum sound a like....so what sounds good for one person on a particular drum might sound like crap to someone else.

K

Well you stated that
1 sometimes 57 sounds best on kick...
2 57 sounds better then 421 on toms.Hard to believe.

And 57-58 might be ok for snare but I thing they have huge ugly sounding leak from the other drums.
On amp is just fine I guess.Wes recorded guitar with 57...

If you like it better that is a defernt thing.It is a personal choice. I personaly wouldn't advise anybody to use 57 on toms and especialy on KICK.Never.

No offense taken.This is a healthy conversession.

Just to let you know 57/58 have a cut low end for better vocal response.That is not what you need for toms and especialy KICK.

re

Just to let you know 57/58 have a cut low end for better vocal response.That is not what you need for toms and especialy KICK.

mabey thats the sound that they are going for, not every kick has to go down to 30hz, and mabey he/she/they wanted to run it through a nice eq to bring the lows out more, etc.

And 57-58 might be ok for snare but I thing they have huge ugly sounding leak from the other drums.
On amp is just fine I guess.Wes recorded guitar with 57...

i've recorded sessions with a 57/or beta57a on snare top, and have had little leakage and some sessions where the leakage is high. Its just like the other guy is trying to say and you are not hearing, it depends on the situation and what sounds good. I recorded a tom a while back with an old radioshack drum mic (looks like a e604) and it sounded good for that perticular tom, and i actually had quite a few comments on that session.

You need to judge based on the sound you want and not the pricetag or reputation, if its right for the job then its right for the job.

bob

I agree with you on most of the things you are saying.But Maybe my preamps doesn't like the mic.Who knows?...It sounds like very far away sound gained..