New projects - the ones we find ourselves attracted to - are always good!
They can shake us out of creative doldrums, motivate us to do more, give us something to sink our creative teeth into, and challenge us to learn/try new things that we might not have otherwise thought about.

I too have experience with learning a new DAW in the middle of an album project... so I'm sorta familiar with what you're going through. ;)
I switched from Sonar to Samplitude smack-dab in the middle of Terry Fairfax's "Love" album a few years ago.
It definitely had its challenges and...uhm..."moments of frustration" ( insert every swear word you can think of here, and even add some new ones, too.... LOL.)

But... it also lit a fire under my ass to get to know the program a lot quicker than I would have, if I hadn't had an actual goal to shoot for. Basically, I self crash-coursed Samplitude because I had to. Thank God for people like Chris, ( audiokid ) Boswell ( Boswell ), Tim Dolbear(TimDolbear) who all helped me over the occasional rough spots ... and Kraznet's Samplitude/Sequoia fantastic instructional vids on YouTube turned out to be mission-critical.

If you can find a really good Cubase video series, Tony, I'd really encourage you to use it. While I'm sure that there are uncountable instruction vids for Cubase out there ( because it's been around for so long now), finding Good instructional vids for a DAW program isn't always as easy to find as we assume....so many are convoluted, or you have to sit through 10 minutes of narrative crap before you get to the info that you need, and sometimes, they even give you wrong info - so if you can locate a series that you like, produced by either Cubase, or a knowledgeable user whom you feel you can trust, bookmark that puppy and lean on it! They can be really valuable to you when you hit the rough spots in the learning curve, as anyone would experience, regardless of the DAW they switch to.

Oh... and don't forget to have fun with the new project... sometimes, we can get so bogged down in the little technical details that we forget that it's supposed to be fun.
Keep us in the loop on this new project, if you can... Personally, I love hearing about what my colleagues are doing. :)
-d.

Greg Ondo from Cubase does an amazing job on YouTube of teaching, and he does live chats. He deserves a lot of praise!. Yes recording a new song in this case, not EP, is making me face small irritating things that don’t work the same already.

Good example, touching any of my tracks with controller auto enables record by default!. Can be turned off in preferences.. but that first time you want to set levels as you record and go, oh shit... I’ve recorded over previous tracks.. thank goodness for that undo button on my controller!.

Oh yes, I am having fun too, I promise.

Cheers,

Tony

Lol...yeah, I'd be in trouble without "Undo".
;)

Hi All,

Just realised I’ve been slack with updates... Adam (songwriter/singer) on this song came by just before Xmas and laid down an M/S combined guitar/vocal then M/S guitar and finally a vocal on a NT2. Currently working on mix and other tracks.

Today..
Rats is coming along nice. Today began at about 3am for me. Adams song started calling me to work on it. I have learned to automate and set cues, and all mixer console related work in amongst mixing today.

The Apollo is powerful and not entirely intuitive. Finding videos on YouTube to get the cue mix setup right was a matter of multiple sources with none specifically covering all in one.

The result is latency free playback while recording new parts in with single fader control over the existing mix for headphone monitoring.

Attached files

My favourite weekly torture victim. Floyd laying down bass for Adams song. I’ve spent most of the afternoon getting Floyd in bass player mode, and recording the ideas of how I hear the bass down. Overall I’m happy with how the song is coming along. More importantly, Adam is.

Bass was tracked through UAD Unison plugin of SVT3-Pro Bass amp, recorded to track, then treated through a J37 tape simulator and a neutron 2 instance.

Today update. Last week I did actually work on the song too, just forgot to update here :). Anyway, last week I worked out more tricks of Cubase Pro and the Apollo console. We recorded a rough track of a Wurlitzer piano track using the Motif XF8 into direct through the Apollo. Today I did that again through a UA610b unison preamp. Much nicer take, and in addition we put the drum roll parts in for the drumming. Superior Drummer 3.0 from Toontracks in glorious 11 mic just WOW.

When Floyd arrived today, first thing I did was, hey, listen to how the speaker setup sounds now that I calibrated them. And yes, he could hear the difference right away also. So, thinking about whether pink noise testing your speakers works or not, yes it does, for me at any rate.

Tony

Makzimia, post: 455415, member: 48344 wrote: When Floyd arrived today, first thing I did was, hey, listen to how the speaker setup sounds now that I calibrated them. And yes, he could hear the difference right away also. So, thinking about whether pink noise testing your speakers works or not, yes it does, for me at any rate.

I'm glad you enjoy your setup...
I think we can't debate how setting up monitors and calibration can help.
When it fails, in my opinion, is if the room is a mess. You can't cancel reflections and bad reverb with a pink noise and a calibration mic..
Of course I can't deny it can help but some people swear by it without discussing acoustics..

Keep in mind Marco, I don't rely on my ears completely. I can't allow myself to do that, there is no treatment in my room AT ALL. It's just got various bits that deflect and absorb like books etc. I use the Tonal balance control of Izotope to keep tabs on frequencies in the songs. Thing is though, honestly, so far, even by ear, I have been luckily very close, dumb luck I am sure ;D.

Tony

With all the work you put in, you surely start to know your room too...
You had limitations with your ears, was it ?
If you want, I could spot check your tracks and mix, just want you to know I can help ;)

pcrecord, post: 455421, member: 46460 wrote: With all the work you put in, you surely start to know your room too...
You had limitations with your ears, was it ?
If you want, I could spot check your tracks and mix, just want you to know I can help ;)

Be careful what you wish for :D. Thanks Marco, yes I have some ear issues, but I also have a small space. I do know it very well at this point though, yes.

I like to work on other's tracks a few times a year. Keeps me alert working on different sounds and issues...

Not a work done type of thing. Thought I’d post this in case anyone never thought of this. Single mic stand one boom two mics for the perfect M/S setup for small studio. Stereo bar cost me £12.00.

Tony

Hi All!,

Well, I wrapped up the song yesterday. Final steps were THE Hammond organ track and a very subtle use of one word as a echo track at times highlighting the main vocal. Overall, I am very happy with how the song has turned out. Ultimately of course it's about Adam, and how he feels. Now I get to wait with heart in throat for his reaction. He's not heard the whole song in a while. And not complete.

Tony

When do we hear this?

DogsoverLava, post: 455836, member: 48175 wrote: When do we hear this?

Soon mate :). pcrecord Marco kindly did an initial mix listen for me. I’ve a couple of small changes. Then I’ll post it up. Adam, performer, loves it.

Tony

OK,

Here we go, I dread this part always LOL. I have ( I hope) taken on board what Marco pcrecord told me. This is a 320k MP3, so I am sure it doesn't totally translate, but let me know.

Tony

[MEDIA=audio]https://recording.o…

Attached files RATS-MP3.mp3 (9.1 MB) 

I really like it except for one thing -- the drums. They have absolutely no swing. This song needs that swing because it's all there in the other performances (which are great) . It sounds like the drums even get out of sync at times - particularly evident in the fills. The Bass drum needs some attention as well -- it's pushing too much air -- over-compressed maybe? Hurts my right ear sonically. Just an armchair first listen reaction - drums need to be completely re-tracked with a drummer who can swing with this because the song is good.

DogsoverLava Thanks for listening. I claim no fame for the drums, actually played by a very A list drummer. Courtesy of Superior Drummer 3.0. I suspect the overall issue of the drums is me over reacting to Marco telling me my drums were too thin :D. I went overboard, they are very likely pumping. Luckily, I did not delete my previous mix, and so I can do it a little less drastic ;). I sweated for weeks over doing the final organ track, I was worried about manually setting the draw bars just right etc LOL. In the end, my favourite part is the final reverse gliss into the luscious Lexicon 244 :D. I'll take a stab at beefing the drums without quite so much extras hehe.

Tony

I'll wait until you remix the drums to see if there's something we're not getting with transients that's making me feel they are off time -- but I can say it's a painful drum mix to have headphones on particularly on the right ear and the kick.... I can't listen for the whole duration of the song without removing that ear cup for some relief.

I love the keys --- just awesome work there capturing those - they sound great.

DogsoverLava sorry mate :(. Glad you like the keys!. The Apollo is quite something for capturing stuff.

For future reference :- Adam Donaldson songwriter, acoustic guitar and vocals.
Floyd Tomlinson bass guitar
Tony Carpenter electric guitar and keys.

All recorded through UAD unison preamps etc to tracks.

What I think I’ll do is firstly post an MP3 version of the mix I gave to pcrecord to listen to, then go from there :).

All recorded right in this room.

Tony

Here is the version I gave to pcrecord Marco to hear, except in MP3 of course. Better place to start from :). I hope.

Tony

[MEDIA=audio]https://recording.o…

Attached files RATS-MP32.mp3 (9.1 MB) 

I do think your last mix was a lot better. The thing with the drums is that you may let too much sub frequencies in the bass drums.. If you high pass it and focus it to 70-80hz it won't be blowing subs anymore and will give space for the bass.

You are on the right path Tony !
It reminds me of the movie Kill Bill ! lol
When do we get vocals ?? ;)

Thanks Makzimia -- I do think this last mix posted brought the drums back into the correct sonic territory for me -- just a few more questions about the drums. Am I to gather that these are midi drums from superior drummer 3 - from some of their stock midi? If so - where these drums applied after recording -- ie - were the bed tracks all recorded to a click track, then the drums assembled and populated to the grid after the fact?

DogsoverLava all stock, the intro and main beat were recorded with. Near the end a choice of fills and where to put them was done. I was originally just going to leave it with intro bit and main beat only. It sounded fine, but lacked movement. Perhaps that works better for your taste :). Reality is that I suck at midi editing and I have no chance, or room to get real drums. It’s been out in the wild now, even got played by Adam over a PA at a gig.. so not sure.

Makzimia, post: 455961, member: 48344 wrote: DogsoverLava all stock, the intro and main beat were recorded with. Near the end a choice of fills and where to put them was done. I was originally just going to leave it with intro bit and main beat only. It sounded fine, but lacked movement. Perhaps that works better for your taste :). Reality is that I suck at midi editing and I have no chance, or room to get real drums. It’s been out in the wild now, even got played by Adam over a PA at a gig.. so not sure.

Thanks Mak -- I ask because my own process is very similar when I use Superior Drummer. This newer mix seems to have corrected most of what I thought I was hearing that caught my ear so it may have been the effect of the compression that was confusing my ear. I really liked the song and I really liked how clean and clear the acoustic guitar was throughout - how did you mic that one? It sounded great in the mix. And those keys were really beautifully captured, as well as your singer giving a very sublime vocal performance. This is a song that could definitely go somewhere for these guys - it's timeless but also of it's time. Good luck with it. Did you do a B-side as well or an album with them?

Hiya DogsoverLava the guys was mostly Adam and I :). Floyd is my regular studio offside, he and I perform locally. SD3 is an amazing program. I do think Marco is right about bringing the drums up just a little and making them thicker, I just have to be VERY careful I don't overdo LOL. The acoustic guitar is actually on 6 tracks. 4 with side of 2 with vocals at same time, and 2 times with just guitar. Then also mid 2 times, one with vocals at same time, one without. Then final vocals solo miced, then doubled and effected. I showed a picture earlier on of my M/S setup I use. The Apollo as I say, can't say enough about it's abilities.

The 3 mics I used on this recording are my gotos for all this sort of thing, and I love them. Oh, and no B side. Adam and I play together at local open mics. He also has gotten me gigs, when I wanted one. He asked 4 different producer friends which of his songs they wanted to work on. I asked to do Rats, it worked out a great match for him and I to do, I think. Love the song, lots of fun to make it more than just an acoustic guitar song.

Thank you for your kind words, I will pass on compliments to Floyd (bass) and Adam (songwriter and singer /acoustic guitarist).

Cheers,

Tony

Hi guys,

I did a few different takes on this in the end, similar in many ways but slightly different choices of emphasis on elements of the recordings. ANYWAY, this is the final choice Adam made. I think it represents the best parts of the song and keeps original intent of fixes that needed to be done.

Tony

P.S He will be taking to be mastered too, this is just mixed.

[MEDIA=audio]https://recording.o…

Attached files RATS-finalMP3.mp3 (9.1 MB)