??????

Anyone at all??? Oh and with the link above, the song is called *Recuerdos de Ipacarai* That's a great song I really like the quality of sound engineering done on it. Not too much over the top with super clear effects or plugins, not poor either like a ham or am radio. I hope someone can help me I'm having a crappy time trying to figure out how to finish my recordings. Thanks

If your looking for more eqipment that might help, try looking at some pre-amps, maybe focusrite or Presonus. You can get several decent ones for under 1K.

As for getting a good recording out of what you got, as long as you know what you are doing, you will be fine. Its not always in the equipment, its in your ears and your know-how.

You can put a great producer or songwriter, and he can make a masterpiece with your equipment, then you can dump and amatuer into a 120 track Pro Tools studio, and he will probably record a piece of $@%!.

Dont forget, the Beatles recorded Sgt Pepper on a 4-track. Not quite sure how, but its probably the songwriting.

A preamp is something I would need? I'll look into that. Where should I go to learn more? I'd really like to get the most out of what I have.....but how? Should I study that AudioPro home recording course? http://musicbooksplus.com/product_info.php/products_id/1400?osCsid=6ac43b1b72f93636d0e8c42f3a15def7

It seems good but I'm not sure if recording is something I could study at home like this. I'm really interested in learning more but I just need to be pointed in the right direction. I tell ya that Javier Solis song is just great. Do I need anything else to produce a better recording? Thanks.

ok, well i listened to some of the Javier Solis songs you are referring too, and unfortunately, unless your voice is as good as his, you are not going to sound like that. Other than a nice microphone, probably a very nice pre-amp/compressor, and a spectacular voice, they didnt use anything special to record that.

The preamp and mic they used does not make him sing like that, they only help to even out the recording, giving it a little "life", then let the talent take over.

Not sure what level your coming from. Do you have any formal training in recording, are you self taught, or are you a complete newbie?

I went to school for audio production for 2 years, and am still light years behind some of these guys. Its practice, listen, practice, listen, study, and maybe read some books. Understand the theory's, as there are no rules. understand what each tool does, then use your ear to integrate them. A compressor is probably the most needed piece of outboard gear to start making your recordings more "professional", as it keeps the audio level even. Just dont overdo it, its really not an effect.

"recording and Producing in the Home Studio" by David Franz is a great book for beginners/intermediate.

Check out the Focusrite Voicemaster, it has a compressor built intot the preamp, and is geared towards vocals.

Goto Sweetwater.com, look up Focusrite, and there you will find plenty of preamps ranging from 500 to 5000 dollars.

Also, as for your Boss-8 track, its a great way to learn, but sometimes a computer based system is better for learning, because its more visual. you can edit on the monitor, as opposed to a little LCD screen of a Boss multitrack. Plus, the computer is generally only limited in number of tracks by your computers power. And with today's newer pc's or macs, it is quite a bit. (32 tracks is a minimum you be able to get, probably more, depending on your software package.)

Thanks artgug! All this information was really helpful. I'm actually self teaching myself the whole recording deal. I'm looking to take some classes at my local college but they use pro tools and computers instead of standalone workstations which is what I usually lean towards. So really I'm just a newbie just trying to soak up as much info as I can.

I looked into the focusrite and it looks like something I would buy especially if it would really help my vocal recordings. It's true, I don't use a compressor and the vocals get horribly distorted....I give them no threshold so anything I sing above 0 db will more than likely distort soon thereafter. I actually was thinking of getting a DBX 166 compressor/limiter but now since you mentioned the focusrite preamp with built in compressor......which is the better buy?

Ok here's the dumb question *well not really since no question is ever stupid if it's sincere*: What is a preamp for? I mean, I use phantom power for my condenser mic but a preamp I've read is also used in ADDITION to the phantom power. What does it do?

Everything is coming more together and clearer for me. I record in the bedroom with no sound proofing at all.....is that an important factor when recording? I guess I could dampen the natural echo in the room with covers and what-not since I doubt I could put that studio foam on the walls. Nobody has ever mention if it's important to have a room that absorbs sound instead of bounce it back. Is it?

.....So is it the DBX 166 or the focusrite? and why a preamp? Apparently if it gives the recording more *life* to it, which is exactly how I described what I needed from my recordings, it must be a useful tool. Thanks a lot for the help I really appreciate it. I'm gonna have to send you a copy of my cd when it's done....it's a 2 man band kind of a thing and it's going really good.....except for those damn vocals haha.....

A preamp is essentially one strip of a really nice mixer. Mixers all have multiple strips, with built in preamps, but they are not as high quality as a true preamp. When you buy a focusrite, or the equivalent, you are buying one strip of a mixer, taylored to improving the sound and boost it to a proper recording level, such as a mic, line instrument, or whatever. Plus they generally have compressors on them to further insure you are recording the best possible signal from step one.

As for the class you mentioned, the same theories apply whether its Pro tools, or a boss. Dont take a class for "press this button, press that button", take a class for "What does a compressor do?, How do i properly record a bass ? How do i ensure good vocal recordings", etc etc

Although it would be nice for the DBX AND the preamp, if you have to go for one or the other, get the preamp. (eventually get a stand alone dual channel compressor also)

BTW, where are you located ? I am in NJ.

phantom power is for providing power to the microphones... instead of batteries or a wall wart that might cause hum, it pulls its power through the cable from whatever the cable is plugged into... a preamp is something entirely different. a pre just boosts microphones up to the proper signal strength, but it also imparts some "color" or "dimension" while its at it that kinda gives it the "gloss" you hear on professional recordings...

I kinda only skimmed through the first post, but are you recording your instruments direct? or are you using Mics? because if you are micing up instruments, than getting a good sounding room (not just a dead sounding room, mind you) is important... but recording direct is just straight signal, no open air in between, if you see what I'm saying...

hope I helped out

edit:
haha, he beat me to it...

OK a couple of things ..

I don't think that the Boss has provisions to use an external pre amp with it .. Unless there's inserts on the channel strips.

My opinion of the mid level Focusrite and PreSonus pres differs from some other peoples .. I don't feel they are significant improvment to warrent the added costs when compared overall to everything else ...

That is to say I do not believe you would get a better recording only by using them and doing everything else the same ...

The use of some compression on the inputs will keep the dynamics in check and prevent clipping so in that respect you might gain some ground but the pres in those things (Focusrite & PreSonus) really aren't any better than a Mackie IMO.

Ok!

Alright thank you all for the replies.

Artgug I'm in Los Angeles here. Lots of work for musicians, especially mariachi musicians like myself. I'm thinking of getting the preamp and the dbx dual channel compressor. Maybe not the focusrite but a preamp standalone without the compressor (maybe cheaper?)

Bitburn: Ya I'm recording through a microphone as I play trumpet and acoustic bass/guitar and violins. I'm wondering what's the best way to make a bedroom a bit more acoustically pleasing to a recording without spending lots of money on improvements? That *color* you're talking about is what I've been observing while listening to past pro recordings. I've wondered about how that came about.......now I know it's probably a preamp and compressor among other basic things.

Kurt: You know I'm not sure if the BR 8 allows for a preamp or even the dbx 166 XL compressor. On the back of my BR-8 I have a Midi Out socket, a digital out socket, a Foot Sw socket, a EXP pedal socket, a headphone socket, a red and white RCA Line out, a red and white RCA Line in, a Mic 1 (vocal) socket, a mic 2 socket, and a guitar/bass socket. If I bought the DBX 166 XL compressor would I be able to connect it? Is the DBX even good enough as a compressor/limiter??? Also, what preamp do you recommend in addition to the compressor? Something less than 1000 dollars is what I can afford. Also something that may work with my BR-8. This is pretty tough since compatibility is an issue. Will the compressor and preamp make a difference to my recordings instead of just using a preamp with no compressor?

What are your AIM screennames? If any....

I'm really looking for that *color* and dimension that Bit burn mentioned for my vocals....

Last big question: I enjoy working with standalone workstations instead of a computer. Can I still produce a good recording on say a Roland VS-2480CD 24 track workstation than on a computer? Is that Roland a better buy for the future?

Thanks again for all the help

I does not sound from your discription like there is any way to use external mic pres and compressors with your Boss ... the Roland has the same problems as does the KORG D1600 anda lot of the all in one porta studios. Look for one that has inserts on the XLR inputs ... the AKAI has this as does some of the others ... look at the Yamaha too. You can bypass the mic pres by plugging into the insert returns.

The DBX is as good as any other inexpensive comps ... there are some comps in the mid price range that are actually fairly decent .. the RNC from FMR comes to mind.

But mic pres are a different thing ... The absolute least expensive mic pres that IMO are really any good are (here we go again, everybody join in) the Sebatrons! They make a very nice single channel pre for under $1000 ... take a look at the website http://www.sebaron.com and check out the "THORAX". It's a channel strip, with mic pre, eq and compressor all in one ... I should be getting one for review soon (I hope).

I don't have an AOL instant messnger screen name ... I do all my talk here where it can be archived and of available to others in the future. But I am more than glad to answer all your questions if I can.

I hope the product is better than the website, as of 7:30 am EST, the website is down. (sebaron.com)

Are they a new company, I am totally unfamiliar with their stuff, and searches on google, and at Sweetwater, Sam Ash, Manny's, and Musicians friend bring up nothing.

Very interested in checking them out, just cant find it.

ArtGug

Hi dudes, (and dudettes where applicable)

Mine is a non expert opinion, but looking at this, a few things strike me.

I mean no disrespect, but we always have to ask the right question. The question isn't: "What GEAR should I buy to sound good?" The question is: "What do I have to DO to sound good?" There's a subtle but real difference.

It seems to me, in my reading here, and my own recording experiences, that to get a great recording, there is a heirarchy of important things to be done. Number one has to be figured out first, before we allow ourselves to address number two, and so on.

This is my heirarchy of issues to address on the road to a great recording:

1-A great song

Only after you have that, can you move to number 2

2-Great musicians

Once you have that, go to number 3

3-A great room. You said you record in an untreated bedroom, and I'd bet that has more to do with the quality of your recordings than your gear. I know this isn't popular, because investing time and money in room acoustics just isn't sexy, but it's a HUGE factor in the recording.

Once your room is 'to die for,' go to 4

4-a great recording engineer, even if it's you.

Practice, practice, practice, fiddle, experiment, record every chance you get. Learn your craft. Gear is NEVER a substitue for a keen ear.

Notice we're most of the way through the list, and we haven't even addressed things that plug in to a wall, that's because I believe if we're at this point, we're 95% of the way there.

5-a decent compressor

If you held a gun to my head and asked me to choose one piece of gear, this is it.

I think if you have all these in place, and each one figured out BEFORE you move on to the next, you could record the thing on a 20 year old 4 track cassette with a $150 mic, with no other outboard gear and, and you could get something that people would want to slide into their CD player. That's because if you have a great song, done by great musicians, in a great room, with great technique, and proper compression, how could you NOT have a great recording?

6-a great pre-amp

The cherry on top, and the extra 5% to a really great recording.

Now that your first CD has made you rich, you can invest in U87's, $5K pre-amps, and other sexy gear that makes us all drool...

If you've ever seen my other posts, my own questions are quite naive too, so take my opinions for what they are worth.

I'll be interested to hear what those in the know have to say.

Cheers
Keith

Keith,
I think you just emphasized what I had been saying, with the talent level of the performers, and the knowledge of the engineer being formost.

Also, i did suggest the compressor and its importance, although those on a limited budget can get a preamp with some compression abilities, although no a substitute for a great compressor, its a start.

Hi all
http://www.sebaron.com is, in fact a lousy company!!! :D

However -- http://www.sebatron.com is a great company and has a forum on this very sight.

Solis88-
Before you buy anything -- do a bunch of browsing and searching on this site you'll understand why after you start reading the recommendations.

In particular check out the "Before you buy" , "importance of great monitors" "KF mic recommendations" the acoustics forum, etc....
You waited two years, a few more weeks won't hurt and may save you plenty of time and money later.

You also may want to spend the money on taking a track or two to a professional studio w/ the recording you like and see how a pro does it. Ask questions and take notes - then you can make a better decision.

[/url]

Great thanks for all the input! Well it seems like a good compressor and preamp is what is favoured after good technique and good musicians. My playing technique I feel is good enough to make people want to listen again.....but my recording skills suck.

If the all in one porta studios usually have the compatibility problem, what's the best way to be able to use all those preamps, compressors, exciters etc.....???? I mean, I always thought that those Roland workstations and Boss workstations were all you needed and that ALL recording systems came like that. Now I'm beginning to suspect that that's why mixers are involved SEPERATE from the recording medium. What kind of hardware should I buy to record and use all these other devices like a preamp, compressor etc...?? I use the Boss BR 8 and it has an onboard mixer.....I figure it's a good start, but if I were to invest money on a decent recording setup, would a workstation be the way to go? Or is the harddisk recorder, seperate mixer, and other devices a better way? I'm thinking of taking my recording to a studio and see what they have to say. My mic is pretty decent but that's about the best equipment I have that makes up my set. Before spending more money, should I change my recording setup from an all in one portastudio to a piece by piece recording studio??? It's something that' I'd be willing to do in it's time.

I was thinking about the room acoustics......what can I do for a bedroom to make it more useful when I'm doing my recordings? Thanks a lot.....that sebatron looks great.

Porta studios are primarily intended as a starting point for people just getting into recording or as a remote recording solution. All the tools needed are included ... there are compressors and effects built in so there is no provision for the use of out board gear for the most part. The higher end porta studios like the AKAI will allow for the use of outboard pres and comps as well as effects.

I doubt that most experienced recordists would be very content with the restrictions imposed with these porta studio products. Your quandary is a perfect example ... people usually outgrow those things pretty quickly .

With a computer based DAW, you need to have pre amps, compressors, EQ's (all considered front end) which are patched in prior to the converters.

When analog ruled, mic pres used were usually found in the mixing console ... and the consoles used were of sufficient quality not to necessitate the use of outboard pres. Not to say that outboard pres weren't used, they just weren't as critical as they are with DAWs. Now days we need pres as a front end for the DAW because most of us are using either inexpensive boards to only monitor with in which the pres pretty much suck or no mixer at all.

So if you are interested in using better pres and compressors, you need to either get into a porta studio that has inserts on the mic pres, get a stand alone recorder and mixer combination or move into a DAW rig.

Hey Kurt thanks for that answer. That's really what I was looking for. I have a few musicians that have ridiculously developed voices *for the practice they still do* My uncle being one of them. He's one of those hidden Pavarotti voices working as a truck driver.....pisses me off I wish I had his voice. So the talent is there, but the equipment and knowledge is just inching up.

You mentioned a stand alone recorder and mixer. What do you recommend to start out? (If you go back there's a link to a song by Javier Solis called Recuerdos de Ipacarai) They obviously didn't use computers since that recording was made in 1961.....I don't want any kind of contemporary sound because I'd be perfectly happy with something like what Javier Solis used to record. Since he didn't use any computers and worked with analog, I know that if I don't use a computer based DAW I could still achieve a good sounding recording. For some reason I'm not really into using a computer to record. Some say it's cheaper and (better) but I'd much rather prefer using hardware and devices instead of software to record into. The only reason I'd want to use a computer is to transfer a finished Mix and recording for possibly mastering if anything and eventually to burn a CD but that's about it.

Any products that will start me on my way towards that direction? Thanks a lot I hope this post will also help other people that are interested in hardware based recordings and not computer based.

BTW what does DAW stand for? I see it thrown around a lot and I can't find the answer in the forums.

Digital
Audio
Workstation

DAW = Digital Audio Workstation

The thing is to achieve the kind of quality you want you would need an analog recorder and a high end mixing desk.

Most likely the recordings you refer to were done with a few mics set up in a Decca Tree array recorded to 3 or 4 tracks (at best ... they may have been tracked to 2 track or even a mono tape machine. But it was probably a very good tape machine like a Studer, 3M or an AMPEX and the pres were probably UA pres or Telefunkins. (this is a conjecture based on what was commonly used in the early 60's)

Back to the present.

As a stand alone recorder IMO digital is the way to go ... these would include the RADAR and Mackie or more on a budget the Alesis machine... but herein lies the rub ..

A good board is going to be very expensive ... and hard to find. Maintenance and a place to accommodate it will be an issue.

The solution most of us have come up with is DAWs ... no mixer, no huge rooms to house a lot of gear ... it's all in the box... a few good pres and mics and you're off to the races.

Of course, it's not going to have that old time analog sound or feel ... but its a new day and a new world. We can't live in the past no matter how good the memories are.

Ok I was researching more gear. Kurt you mentioned working with a DAW will have no mixer and no huge house to keep the gear in.....but isn't a DAW the same thing as a standalone workstation? A workstation where you can't plug in a preamp, compressor and all those other devices? Yet you mentioned that "a few good pres and mics and you're off to the races." I'm a bit confused about that one.

Well I found this gear to start off with, let me know if you think it's a good start for a better recording setup:

Alesis ADAT-HD24XR Digital 24-Track Hard Disk Recorder
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/246019/

Behringer Digital Mixer and Interface Package
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=rec/search/detail/base_pid/631253/
(This is the only one I found to be ADAT compatible, good price too)

166XL Dual Compressor Limiter
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=rec/search/detail/base_pid/183548/

DigiMAX 96 8-Channel Mic Preamp by Presonus
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=rec/search/detail/base_pid/184124/
(This Mic preamp has a 96Khz output resolution just as the Alesis ADAT recorder supports 96Khz so I figure that it would be a good buy)

I already have a Shure KSM-32 Mic. and some Edirol *cheap* studio monitors.

Oh and probably a neat recording desk to place all these devices in.

So let me know if you think this would be a good setup to begin my way to better recordings (in addition to some classes) This is the best I can think of but maybe I'm waaay off and none of these things work with each other? I sure hope that's not the case! Thanks!

P.S. Oh and what does IMO mean? I keep looking in forums but everyone already seems to know what it means.

Oh and probably should get better cables......How does the setup I have in mind sound?

Stand alones come in two flavors ... the all in one packages like many of the porta studios (these are the ones that usually present issues with outboard gear) or a recorder and mixer set up like an Alesis HDR24 and a mixer .. in which you are free to use anything.

With a DAW you need pre amps and converters ... there are some products available that have both pre and converters in one box, but often with these you run into the same problem ... not being able to use outboard pres comps etc. because there are no inserts on the pres ...

Almost any digital recorder is going to sound fine ... the differences are pretty small unless you get into the big guns like a RADAR with Nyquest converters.

I hate Behringer gear ... (nuff' said) Look at a Mackie or an Allen Heath ... anything else.

I hate PreSonus pres (nuff' said again) Look to the less expensive products available in this case ... a small Mackie mixer or a Studio Projects SP-828 will do the job fine ...

The SP-828 has the Burr Brown chip in it ... which a lot of people seem to like. The Sytek 4 channel pre everyone raves about offer the Burr Brown chip as an upgrade option but the SP-828 has it stock and has twice as many channels and a lot more features (like cascadeabilty and an included sub mixer) at a much lower price (list $799 / street $599) ... and as such is pricewise, more in line with what it should be, IMO.

Jez, for that money, you can go computer route. Is there some reason you are so dead set against the computer DAW?

(Mac + Pro Tools or Logic)
(PC + Cubase, Sonar, Pro Tools, Etc)

ArtGug

Okay, I'm in...again.

Related to this topic, what's the word on the street about the Tascam 1884?

Yes, the pre-amps are iffy, but if that's the only real hiccup, it seems like a decent route to go. It comes with a modest mixer, which is expandable as you get more cash, it comes with Cubase, as long as you don't have an aversion to Cubase, and all one has to do, or so it seems, is to pick up a dual G5 MAC and some pre's and taa daa!

So what's the scoop on this thing. Good stuf or waste of money?

http://www.tascam.com/Products/FW-1884.html

Let me know if y'all think this ought to be posted as a separate topic.

Cheers
Keith

Alright Kurt I looked for a mackie mixer and I found this one:

link removed

Now you mentioned that the SP-828 is a mixer and a preamp and that usually the problem is that you cannot add any outboard gear like the compressor to it. Do you recommend a preamp that is just a preamp and is compatible with compressors and other devices?? Thanks

Oh and I have a clip of a recording using the BR-8. It's pretty good, but the compressor isn't the very best. I wasn't using a preamp either.....but I don't know where to upload it to be able to host the file..... Anyway, what's a good preamp by itself?

Oh and I'm not sure why I don't like a computer recording setup....I feel more comfortable with hardware and knobs instead of moving it around with a mouse. Actually, I've seen setups where there's hardware mixers and recorders with an LCD monitor that's used to look at the music files. Not sure how that works though.....

I was looking around for an ADAT compatible preamp.

This one?
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=rec/search/detail/base_pid/188214/

this:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=rec/search/detail/base_pid/184030/

or this:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=rec/search/detail/base_pid/180310/

the mackie will be preferred since I'd probably be running with a Mackie mixer. and it's affordable. But big question, will any of these preamps allow to connect other devices through it in parallel? Compressors and other processors are things I'm really looking into buying as well and I wanna know that everything is compatible and able to be connected to the other.

Alright! I think I found a way to place my files online....If they one fails try the next, if they all fail just wait until the next day to try the download again......after all, it's a free webspace!

Ok this is a short clip. I played the Acoustic Bass *Guitarron*, the Tenor Guitar *Vihuela*, both trumpets and the upper voice. My dad played the violins and the lower voice. Let me know what you guys think, I'm just using the regular BR-8 and recording in the bedroom.

UMass Lowell SRT
UMass Lowell SRT
Link removed
Link removed
Link removed
Do you think that if I had the equipment I mentioned in my last 2 posts and a better room it would account for a better recording? Thanks so much.

Ok,I"ll put my two cents in also.I have a small setup myself and although my equipment is not top notch I still can prouduce songs that friends of mine sit up and say WOW!!! The point I"m trying to get to is I"ve seen some people pick up a piece of crap guitar and make it scream. If you did"nt know it was a Hondo you would have swore it was a PRS. Its all about how to use what you"ve got, although I"ve got a 100.00 pre-amp untill I can afford something better I find this little pre-amp along with other low end pieces give my studio a very differant sound in its own. Different studios have there own sound." Look at Abby Roads studio " There sound is very different from others. While you may wonder how other proformers get their " sound " work on YOUR sound, after all,what ever they did got you to sit up and notice did"nt it?
Whenever you can, sit down and go through these forms and read what other people are doing, their problems and other peoples advice.
I"m not a pro at recording nor do I think I"ll ever be.BUT!!! I"ve taken small bits of information from here and there from what I"ve learned from reading these forums and have learned more than I thought I would.
Good luck,
Brock

solis, that stuff sounds great! 8-)

Good music man, and thats what counts. Technically, it might not be the best "Recorded" piece, but people will see right through that, because the content is there.

The vocals are a bit hot, and if your looking for a piece of gear to still help you, definitely look at the preamp/compressor route.

All of that dont mean a damn thing when you can sing like that.

Good job, any help we can be, ask. Keep moving along on the technical aspect, and you'll get there. At least you obviously have the talent to enjoy the road along the way.

I wish we lived closer, I'd love to help you learn to record in person. unfortunately, I'm on the east coast (NJ), so it would be quite a commute for you.

You might want to check you gain stages as you record. Sounds like somewhere along the way, you were too hot. In the digital world, over 0db on the meters is getting into bad territory. Plug into the boss, use your "Trim" dial to make the meters just under 0db when the singer is at his loudest, then later in mixdown watch your levels. these rules apply with or without expensive preamps or compressors. Without those, your Boss is still more than capable of recording things without digital breakup, just watch your levels.

Hey Art thanks for the input. Ya there's no way to connect any preamps or compressors into my Boss.....I've recently been messing around with the built in compressor that's in the Boss. The settings for using the compressor are these:

Compressor effect- On/Off
Sustain- 1-100 (Adjusts the range (time) over which low-level signals are boosted. Larger values will result in longer sustain

Attack- 1-100
Adjusts the strength of the attack. Larger values will result in a sharper attack, creating a more clearly defined sound.

Level- 1-100
Adjusts the volume

The big big question I have is this: what should those levels be?? You know what happens is that when I sing softly you can hear it, but sometimes when I mess around with the controls the louder I sing, the MORE it compresses and actually dims the volume more so than it sounds when I sing softly......what I want is to sing softly and still listen to the vocals in the forefront and when they get a bit too loud, be able to clip them from going past that 0 db that you mentioned on your last post. You're right though over that 0 db it gets pretty bad. With those controls what would be a good setting range to level out my vocals? I also use a shure KSM 32 with the -15 db accentuator......but that lowers the input way too much. It does, however, have 3 little positions on the back of the mic for a "flat" frequency response, a Low frequency cutoff, and a low frequency rolloff.....Should I use those for anything?

There are other effects on the Boss like chorus, De-esser, Delay, Enhancer, and equalizer. I'm pretty lost with most of these input effects. I understand the Reverb loop effect and found a pretty good setting for that.....just the others I don't know what to do....Help with this and I"ll be able to have more control with my recordings, thanks a whole lot for the help! Hey Art do you have your own studio by the way?

well as every one has been saying invest in a good pre amp... xoh and spend some money on education on the music field...

Yeah, the compressor in that Boss is really geared towards a guitar. Thats really what those boxes were inteended to be from the start, a scratchpad for guitarists to lay down and record their ideas. Thats why the main parameter of the compressor is sustain. it is meant to be used as a special effect for a guitarist to add sustain to his/her playing.

Even if you get a fairly inexpensive outboard compressor, you will definitely have more control over the paarmeters in relation to vocal tracks.

Hey thanks for that, I didn't realize it would be geared for a guitar. I understand how to work threshold, sustain, release, and ratio....and when I didn't see them on here I started to worry what the hell to do. You know I'd buy an outboard processor TODAY, but from what Kurt has mentioned earlier before my Boss isn't made to be connected to an outboard processor? I was thinking of a DBX 166 XL compressor....if that doesn't work, is there ANY compressor that exists that I could use with my Boss? Thanks

A compressor should work fine with the Boss. the problem with preamps, and why some say they dont work, is that, the Boss "Re-colors" the tone coming from the preamp, negating some of the good it does.

The compressor, will still deliver a smoother signal into the boss, and you should be fine.

Hey I found a bunch of comps that may work! They have 1/4 inch inputs and xlr inputs.

My mic has three little prongs XLR??? it must be the male side. The cable is an xlr female. then the other end of the cable is an xlr male which I would connect into the input of the xlr female connector of the phantom input. then the output of the phantom is again a male xlr connected to a female xlr cable end, which finally is turned into a 1/4 inch plug at the end which goes into the back of the Boss.....funny how the boss doesn't use an xlr connector but a 1/4 inch...I wonder if that's common?

I have a list of compressors from musicians friend that I've seen:

Alesis 3630 compressor/limiter/gate *$99*

dbx 266 xl compressor/gate *$149*

Aphex 108 Easyrider 2-Channel Automatic Compressor *$199*

What's the good word? Of these which do you recommend a good buy for my setup? The dbx looks really neat....they all work for my setup with their XLR inputs.

Oh! last thing, in what order is the compressor placed? Is it Mic, phantom, compressor, boss studio.........or Mic, compressor, phantom, boss studio???? I've looked in the forums and cannot find that answer. I found that some engineers like to record completely natural and with no effects and add a compressor later on. I know I cannot do that because once I record, the sound or distortion *if any* cannot be removed with any effect. Once it's recorded distorted, a compressor will only lower the volume of the distortion instead of eliminate it. thanks for the help Art.

Ahh sorry about the last post I wanted to add something else to consider. I found this:

DBX 286A Microphone preamp Processor *$199*
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=rec/search/detail/base_pid/183541/

This is a preamp AND compressor in one. Is this one a better buy for my Boss setup or should I just get the compressor and invest in a better preamp later? It has an XLR mic input but a 1/4 inch output jack *I could just buy a 1/4 inch to 1/4 inch cable since my boss has a Mic input that is 1/4 inch as well*. This one seems perfect, but I really don't want to throw away my money on a product that will do me no good. Thanks.

I'll say it again ... the Boss has no inserts for the mic pre ... compressors are inserted after the mic pre ... you cannot use a compressor with the Boss without going into a mic pre first to get the level up to line level ... In the end all you will do is amplify the mic twice adding noise ... add a comp will make that even worse.

The discriptions provided in the Boss manual are a little confusing ... remember these mauals are usually written in Japanese and trasilated to English ... often something is lost in the trasilation.

I'll attempt to re define some of it

Attack- 1-100. 1 is fast / 100 is slow
Adjusts the onset of the attack. Larger values will result in a longer period of time elapsing before the comp kicks in ... this allows the inital envelope of the signal to pass before the comp kicks in. Guitars wiil usually ahve a fast attack while vocals my require a slower setting ... Try 20 for vocals.

Sustain- 1-100. This is often called release. Adjusts how long the compressor stays engaged before releasing.

Again guitars and bass may require a longer release. Vocals may not need as long ... again, try 20

Level- 1-100
Adjusts the volume after the comp ... it is for making up the gain lost when compressing.

Hey there,
My name is Phil Gates. I work for Roland Corporation US, as a Strategic Support Specialist for both Roland and BOSS. Your recordings on your BR-8 sound Great! I think that I may have some ideas for your existing situation with your BR-8. We have a Support Document in our On-line Help Desk that may help. Follow this link:

http://www.rolandus.com/products/details.asp?CatID=12&SubCatID=48&ProdID=BR-8&PageMode=19

and also some Help Desk info at this link:

http://support.rolandus.com/helpdesk/?product=BR-8

For the personal touch, you can call our staff in Product Support
Hard Disk Recorders/Digital Mixers: 323-890-3741
7:30 AM to 6PM pacific time. Mon- Friday.

Also, the other posters here are correct about there being no way to bypass the internal mic pre's. But the compressors under the mic input are dialed in more for vocals than the guitar compressors if you use the guitar input button.
Make sure you know the relationship between the input sensitivity knob and the Input Level knob. The Input sensitivity knob sets the level for the BR-8 gain structure for the machine itself, & for sending to effects, etc. The input level control knob is used to set the level being actually to be recorded onto the track. This relationship is important because the input level knob is after(post) all of the effects, compressors, etc. All of these little stages can play a big part in how your tracks and overall mix will sound. Gain structure is always important in recording.

If you have any further questions, or problems, just post them here, or Private Message me if you like. There are a great deal of knowledgeable and experienced posters here in this forum and just as another option, the Help Desk has a lot of great information on almost all Roland products old & new. http://support.rolandus.com/helpdesk/

Just my humble .02¢

Phil Gates
Strategic Specialist - Web Content Team
Roland Corp.