Micing Acoustic Guitar
Many people have a difficult time Micing an acoustic guitar to where it will sit well in the final mix. Usually, it's too boomy or too tinny, or too many finger squeeks, etc. Here's a little trick I use to record a mono rhythm guitar when I need it. I use an omni, but a cardioid should work almost as well.
With the player seated in a comfortable position, bring the microphone in (from a boom stand behind the player) over the player's right shoulder, about level with the player's ear, and roughly 6" out in front of the player. Here's how the setup should appear:
Here's a front view:
I use the Audix TR-40 Omni Calibration mic (also sold as the MB-550 by MBHO), but any good omni or cardioid should work as well.
The basic idea behind this setup is that the mic hears what the player hears. You avoid proximity problems (bass build-up from close mic placement), amplifying finger squeaks, and the uneven radiation of the guitar face.
This method works pretty well with most acoustic guitars and it usually requires no eq to sound right in the mix. It's also a lot easier to duplicate and repeat the sound if the guitarist has to come in a week later to do punch-ins to fix a part. Try it, you just might like it.
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And you probably won't need compression, since it uses the principles of acoustic compression. Very nice, Harvey, I can't wait to try that placement.
Another thought, in a fairly dense rock production where the acoustic has to compete with electric guitars, I sometimes place a 57 directly on the guitar (adjust placement to taste). The mother fucker cuts like a knife through everything even at low volumes.
The problem is that really big, hi fi acoustic guitars easily dwarf electric guitars. This is not usually a desired effect in a full on rock production.
Mixerman
Originally posted by Rick Greenly:
Great tip Harvey. Does it work equally well on nylon or steel string guitars? Any difference in micing technique if the player is a fingerstyle or classical guitarist as opposed to a flatpicker?
Thanks for sharing your time and experience with us! Rick It seems to work equally well for all types of guitars and playing styles. Part of the reason is the lack of proximity effect by some reasonable spacing and the use of an omni, and because the mic is placed about how the person hears their guitar anyway.
I've also used this same trick on miking guitar amplifiers when the player was unhappy with the tone from the mic up close. Most guitar players will fiddle with the controls and then back up about 4 to 6 feet away and play, usually slightly off axis. When they get the tone they want, I'll put a mic right where their ear was when they heard the sound they wanted. I think it's more mental, but that technique makes sense to them, and the session moves forward. :D
Originally posted by Mixerman:
And you probably won't need compression, since it uses the principles of acoustic compression. Very nice, Harvey, I can't wait to try that placement.
Another thought, in a fairly dense rock production where the acoustic has to compete with electric guitars, I sometimes place a 57 directly on the guitar (adjust placement to taste). The mother fucker cuts like a knife through everything even at low volumes.
The problem is that really big, hi fi acoustic guitars easily dwarf electric guitars. This is not usually a desired effect in a full on rock production.
MixermanWow, great tip, MM. I gotta try that too!! I'd probably use a 57 pointed back somewhere towards the bridge. That's where I hear most of the top end coming from on an acoustic guitar. Fitting an acoustic into a rock mix is always hard for me.
For the dense rock mix thing I've had good results with taping a PZM to the acoustic. The player has to be somewhat skilled--as in not a swinging bash-scratch guy who's pick scrapes all over his guitar while he plays(OK--maybe it was just this particular jack-ass). I usually go for taping it on the front as far back and down in the corner as it needs to be to get out of the player's way. The sound is a super crunchy, almost buzz-saw sort of thing(as far as acoustic guitar can be).
The big bonus fun is telling the player to slowly walk or turn in the room until finally getting on the phones and to say, "Stop!!" when they hit the sweet spot. I've gotten odd but useful sounds with players facing corners or walls and one neat track with a guy in his socks walking in and out of his basement stairwell!
Originally posted by Bear's Gone Fission:
BTW, I also like the "player perspective" micing on drum kits,
da Bear
At the Live Aid concert in 1985, at JFK, 100,000 people simultaneously air drummed the fill to "In the Air Tonight" from left to right, as Phil Collins played it solo on the piano. That was just before I got into that racket. But this event was a defining moment for my decision to use drummers perspective.
Of course, the really funny part of all that is the fact that Phil, is a left handed drummer. So that means that the audience actually played the drum fill in drummers perspective. But they don't know that.
People love to air drum. Let them dream, record and mix drummers perspective.
Mixerman
I have been doing x/y overheads behind the drummers back above his head lately, a lot of drummers have been happy saying that is how they hear there kit.
The stereo spread is not as good as spaced.
I have miked acoustics with three mics.
1 behind the the players back near the ear a small condenser.
A large condesner in front like normal
and a third small condenser in front of the nut or 3rd fret for the finger sounds.
You have to watch the phase although the finger sounds are great for accoustic bands.
I have my own Maton accoustic thinline with a good pre and I use direct for players with to much finger buzz and pick sound.
Originally posted by Mixerman:
The problem is that really big, hi fi acoustic guitars easily dwarf electric guitars. This is not usually a desired effect in a full on rock production.
Mixerman
I find in cases like this that I'm using a high pass filter to get rid of most of the low end of the acoustic, up to around 250hz and then carving out a bit of the mid-range as well to make it sit in a densly populated track. I may end up boosting 12Khz to bring out the over tones as well and possibly adding a bit of compression depending how it's sitting.
Has this been your experience as well MM?
Originally posted by davemc:
I have been doing x/y overheads behind the drummers back above his head lately, a lot of drummers have been happy saying that is how they hear there kit.
I've been using a modified version of this recently which is kind of a bastardized decendant of the Fletcher three mic technique. I'm using two large diaphram condensers, last time it was a Lawson L47 and an AKG 414EB placed around ear level on either side of the drummers head. I angled the mics so that the floor tom side mic was pointed between the rack and floor tom and the high hat side was point over the snare towards the rack tom.
What a sound, I haven't mixed these tracks yet but I'm pretty excited about the raw sound on tape. Of course, a good drummer helps too.
Hi Harv!!!
Originally posted by mp@soundtechrecording.com:
I find in cases like this that I'm using a high pass filter to get rid of most of the low end of the acoustic, up to around 250hz and then carving out a bit of the mid-range as well to make it sit in a densly populated track. I may end up boosting 12Khz to bring out the over tones as well and possibly adding a bit of compression depending how it's sitting.
Has this been your experience as well MM?
Yeah, well you have to do all sorts of carzy EQ to make an acoustic 'fit' in a dense production. That's why I suggested the 57 method of recording, then it has that sound to start with.
Sometimes engineers are slightly hesitant to get anything but a great sound on every instrument. I like to get the right sound on every instrument. Sometimes that's not a sound that stands on it's own.
Mixerman
Well, that was a picture I took for EvAnna Manley's photo page of some of the rec.audio.pro people. Only stipulation was that you had to be naked. I still wanted to have some sort of audio theme so, I did this picture for her. The rest of the pictures are at:
CIPO - OPIC
All my photos of the AES 2000 show (which include Fletcher, Stephen Paul and a bunch of other people) are ar:
http://www.itrstudio.com/aes/
With the player seated in a comfortable position, bring the microphone in (from a boom stand behind the player) over the player's right shoulder, about level with the player's ear, and roughly 6" out in front of the player.
I like to try this position before all others because it's seems to sound the most natural,(most likely for the reasons you've mentioned). I will then 'add in' other mics if that is what I'm looking for, but this,(as well as micing about 3 ft. in front of the performer) gives me the best reference of what the sound is actually like IMO.
Good to see you here Harvey
Steve
Originally posted by hargerst:
Originally posted by Rick Greenly:
Great tip Harvey. Does it work equally well on nylon or steel string guitars? Any difference in micing technique if the player is a fingerstyle or classical guitarist as opposed to a flatpicker?
Thanks for sharing your time and experience with us! Rick It seems to work equally well for all types of guitars and playing styles.
I've also used this same trick on miking guitar amplifiers when the player was unhappy with the tone from the mic up close. Most guitar players will fiddle with the controls and then back up about 4 to 6 feet away and play, usually slightly off axis. When they get the tone they want, I'll put a mic right where their ear was when they heard the sound they wanted. I think it's more mental, but that technique makes sense to them, and the session moves forward. :D
AS DB noted in his RAP message about the piano recording he did on the Boston album, it's actually a very useful position on just about everything a musician plays. I've done it on piano before with mics placed just slightly wider than the player's ears, with acoustic guitar as you have here, and with congas, and as a different take on drum overheads (although that can become problematic with the mics pointing somewhat back out to the other players). Doesn't work real hot with horn and woodwind players!
Miking Acoustic Guitar
Harvey, I used a cheap LCD mike for this
technique recently and it worked remarkably
well for me. I found that because I was
the rather bass-shy R0de NT-1 (ok, so please
don't evict me), I not only did not have any
problem with boominess, but I had not *enough*
low end. So I augmented with an SM-57 (ok,
sm-58 with the ball head removed) down at
the saddle (whatever it's called) pointing
up across the bridge, but slightly in front
to avoid too much variation from guitar
movement and to get a bit of oomph from the
sound hole. The proximity effect was just
enough. My relatively-untrained ears judged
this to be by far the best sound I've gotten
from that particular acoustic guitar yet. I
also picked up just enough room ambience to
make me feel that my small room sounds pretty
nice. So, in conclusion, I think this is
not only a great miking position, but a great
starting point for others.
Great tip Harvey,
Does it work equally well on nylon or steel string guitars?
Any difference in micing technique if the player is a fingerstyle or classical guitarist as opposed to a flatpicker?
Thanks for sharing your time and experience with us!
Rick