Limit of 5 attachments here's the rest of the first cost sheet.

Attached files

" How much does a studio cost?"

LOL.. how much ya got?

or, "if you have to ask, then you probably can't afford it..."

We are talking Home studio here, right ?
My first question would be, what do you want to record and what level of quality do you want?

You can do some effective podcast for arounds 500$.
In my situation, I was aiming high quality and I wanted to be able to produce a full band, so I'm in for about 25k of investment so far.

pcrecord, post: 436522, member: 46460 wrote: In my situation, I was aiming high quality and I wanted to be able to produce a full band, so I'm in for about 25k of investment so far.

Have you posted any pictures on RO previously Marco?...if so I'd like to have a look at them if you can remember the thread.

DonnyThompson, post: 436521, member: 46114 wrote: " How much does a studio cost?"

LOL.. how much ya got?

or, "if you have to ask, then you probably can't afford it..."

Lol, way more than your wife will let you spend.

pcrecord, post: 436522, member: 46460 wrote: We are talking Home studio here, right ?
My first question would be, what do you want to record and what level of quality do you want?

You can do some effective podcast for arounds 500$.
In my situation, I was aiming high quality and I wanted to be able to produce a full band, so I'm in for about 25k of investment so far.

Yeah Marco we discussed about 20k being the number right now. I think that's about what it takes 20-30k. Your right in there. Something around the 900-1000 sqf seems to land around 35-50k

If you DIY everything you could probably pull off 10k which is where the materials will probably land on this one.

In fact lol the materials for the whole house structurally probably land about 10k lol.

From what I gather it's the cost of the basic room x3-5.

25k is a serious investment Marco. But I think considering a lot of rigs fall in that range between the computers recording gear and instruments, that you truly need 'good rooms' to get the most out of it.

It's funny how easy it is to make a podcast type thing sound good as you mentioned, but remarkable how many audio how to vids, and vlogs have terrible acoustics. Particularly the audio how to's should know better.

Sean G, post: 436524, member: 49362 wrote: Have you posted any pictures on RO previously Marco?...if so I'd like to have a look at them if you can remember the thread.

I've changed many things in the last year. I think I'm in for another photoshot.. ;)
But here's a quick pic I took

Looks tight Marco. I'm nervous if I sneeze over here in Massachusetts I might knock over that killer bunch of rack stuff you got there buddy. I'll refrain from sneezing lol.

Did you do the work and design yourself?

kmetal, post: 436533, member: 37533 wrote: Did you do the work and design yourself?

Yes, I did it all by myself (and some help from my girlfriend).
I know very well that my settup is not ideal but it's the best I could do with the space that was given to me.
I built a room in a room 11x10' with an air space double wall and the rest of the place is 17 x 14'.
I have a small tool space where I can put guitar amps too.. (10x7)

That looks like a nice setup Marco, well done.

- Is that little bobble-head on the right nearfield a little version of you ?

I imagine when your mixing he's rockin' right along to the beat with you. :D

Sean G, post: 436541, member: 49362 wrote: That looks like a nice setup Marco, well done.

- Is that little bobble-head on the right nearfield a little version of you ?

Yes it's a mini me !! It was a gift from my girlfriend, she ordered it from japan !! :)

i don't think that space is suitable to invest that much into. i wouldn't put more than $200 or $300 for treatments into it but i certainly wouldn't do any construction. not if you're really serious about recording and mixing real instruments live. if all you do is vst's you could record but i would still worry about mixing. the C/R as presented has issues too, mainly the fact you have it firing into compression. mix rooms should open up (like a horn) not close down. treatments cannot compensate for that.

by the time you divide it in to a C/R and live room, along with how low the ceiling is, you just don't have a suitable space. even if you do a one room thing, you still have the ceiling that is way too low. if you could raise the ceiling to 14 feet, you could do a mix room there.

pcrecord, post: 436543, member: 46460 wrote: Yes it's a mini me !! It was a gift from my girlfriend, she ordered it from japan !! :)

I thought it was !

He needs to get sketch up or a cad program.

kmetal, post: 436533, member: 37533 wrote: Looks tight Marco. I'm nervous if I sneeze over here in Massachusetts I might knock over that killer bunch of rack stuff you got there buddy. I'll refrain from sneezing lol.

Use one of those Kleenex tissues on your NS-10s' Kyle....;)

Kurt Foster, post: 436544, member: 7836 wrote: i don't think that space is suitable to invest that much into. i wouldn't put more than $200 or $300 for treatments into it but i certainly wouldn't do any construction. not if you're really serious about recording and mixing real instruments live. if all you do is vst's you could record but i would still worry about mixing. the C/R as presented has issues too, mainly the fact you have it firing into compression. mix rooms should open up (like a horn) not close down. treatments cannot compensate for that.

by the time you divide it in to a C/R and live room, along with how low the ceiling is, you just don't have a suitable space. even if you do a one room thing, you still have the ceiling that is way too low. if you could raise the ceiling to 14 feet, you could do a mix room there.

I wouldn't say it's impossible to get a decent mix in a room with a ceiling lower than 14' - much of mixing is being familiar with the inadequacies or issues of a particular environment, too. That's not to say that it isn't preferred - to have a good sounding space - but it's not impossible to get a good mix in a room that is less than perfect - if you are familiar with your room and your monitors.

a lot of things can be done in less than perfect circumstances. we're talking about putting thousands of dollars into a room for what? less than desirable results? to have to be "familer" with the room to use it? a few hundred in removable treatments (fiberglass panels and fluffy pink for absorption) will get you there without destroying the value of your house.

Yeah - investing $25K in 8 foot ceilings doesn't seem like a good ROI. If I'm spending anything over $10k I would demand 14 ft ceilings or higher. Actually, I wouldn't invest any money at all in something that has 8 foot ceilings...removable treatments at best.

However, it is a good point being made that you can "learn the room", as I have had to learn my home studio's control room with a 12 foot ceiling. But 8 foot ceilings would really make that exponentially tough.

it all depends on what the intended use of the room is. a 50 hZ wave is 22 feet plus long. 140 Hz wave is 8 feet plus. these are simple criterion we can apply to discern the suitability of a space for the intended purpose.

Allen Sides insists he needs to hear a 33Hz wave to correctly mix a kick drum. he builds custom monitor systems that deliver that low, however they are quite large and require huge rooms to operate in. this is why all the mix rooms he owns are very large. a simple solution is to limit the bandwith of the monitor system you use but these days everyone is obsessed with very deep bass. it's a recipe for disaster i tell 'ya! to spend an inordinate amount on a room that small would be imo, a disservice to the client. we can install a jet engine in a lawn mower but just because it's possible, doesn't mean it's a great idea. lol.

http://www.mcsquared.com/wavelength.htm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/publications/rdreport_1993_08

please don't shoot the messenger. i don't make these rules.

Kurt Foster, post: 436575, member: 7836 wrote: Allen Sides insists he needs to hear a 33Hz wave to correctly mix a kick drum.

I'm not even sure if my Alesis Monitor One passives will even reproduce that low... I think they're good to down around 40 - or so - maybe. I can't recall now, I'd have to look up the specs.

DonnyThompson, post: 436579, member: 46114 wrote: I'm not even sure if my Alesis Monitor One passives will even reproduce that low... I think they're good to down around 40 - or so - maybe. I can't recall now, I'd have to look up the specs.

lol. one word. subwoofer.

Most of us know what's an ideal environement. Since money flies fast in our business, we all have our own limits to our passion. To me, there's no way the height of my ceilling will stop me from doing music.. Even in my little drum room, I'm able to record nice drums and other instruments. What good is a perfect room if you're gonna use drum replacement anyway? Which I don't have to do with my kit for it to sound good. Of course, brum replacement is a saver when I need to record a 100$ pawnshop drum ... ;)

Of course I'm talking at my level, I own an home studio. The quality is good enough that I get some WoW and thanks all the time.
If I had 50k of gear in my room I'd still do some recording with better quality or not, that's what I like to do.
And you know what ? When you buy highend stuff you can resell it, if you buy cheap you just have to trash it.

what kind of treatments do you have Marco? Did you spend $4k on construction?

The entire reason you incorporate treatments and low frequency trapping is to aid in attempting to overcome the limitations of an existing mix rooms dimensions. Any room in any situation can over come low frequency if given a few acceptable perimeters.

1. Windows that open
2. Doors that open
3. Neighbors that tolerate

Kurt Foster, post: 436583, member: 7836 wrote: what kind of treatments do you have Marco? Did you spend $4k on construction?

• Isolated the whole ceiling with roxul (17x36)
• Built a recording room (10x11) kept 6x10 for storage and tools and recording guitar cabs seperatly.
  • The floor is sited on isolation foam on the concreat
  • Some high density cardboard (we call that tentess here), roxul, 2 layer of sheetrock and sonopan (rapped with fabric) inside the room
  • Hotel grade carpet (got a very good deal) it didn't need a liner.
• The rest of the 17x36 serves for mixing and home theater (needed something for the girlfriend too)
• Built a second wall with a 2'' air space from the room
• 3 sound proof doors (2 in front of each other and one to get to the storage)
• A dismentle patio door, each half served as angled windows in the 2 walls.
• a new breaker and all it takes to have power in the room and for the mixing station
• Some fixtures to light the place
• Paint for the whole thing

It spent about 3.5k if I include some chairs and self made mixing desk ; bought a kitchen countertop and put a rackmount and a computer cabinet I had to go under it.

When I get time this summer, I may build a few bass trap to go in the recording room because it tends to accentuate 200-400hz a bit. But it's easily corrected with a 3db EQ cut.

The only thing I regret is that the recording room is air thight so it can be hot in there sometime.. But an AC system would have been way too expensive...

pcrecord, post: 436540, member: 46460 wrote: Yes, I did it all by myself (and some help from my girlfriend).
I know very well that my settup is not ideal but it's the best I could do with the space that was given to me.
I built a room in a room 11x10' with an air space double wall and the rest of the place is 17 x 14'.
I have a small tool space where I can put guitar amps too.. (10x7)

17x14x8 meets the 1,500 cubic criteria for a listening room. I've recorded drums in a booth about 9x11 (splayed walls and ceiling) and didn't get that 70's uber dry sound. It's for me 5 mics did it and keeping the snare fairly open.

I'd post it but I have no computer setup and don't have a wav. To MP3 converter. Maybe I'll just upload to sound cloud.

It can be done in all sorts of rooms, ideally no, but engineering isn't always ideal.

3k isn't a whole lot for a basic room to have some privacy in. I've never built a studio for myself but I've done 5 so far, 6 is half through, and 7 is in the first stages, which hopefully lands me my 15% commission plus hourly wages.

Nobody's first one come out ideal.

To me I had plenty of fun in my bedroom and adjoining 12x19 living area w 6'8 ceilings. Close mincing on a cheap lot to a 4 track. One day it didn't sound smeary, didn't know what I did but I accidentally got the mic placement done right, and drums tuned well.

Wake up, breakfast, burn some green, and play and mix till the parents came home. It was a hell of a lot of fun those couple college years.

Let's not forget home studios are about inspiration, not ultimate fidelity.

Steve millers joker was recorded in a two car garage studio by a guy who new what's up.

Adeles keeper acoustic and vocals for Rollin in the deep, in an Apartment on a MacBook.

If I were Marco is mix in the big room. I went from a 12x14 bedroom w a nasty null at 78.2hz, into the bigger room w the speakers and I could mix bass pretty much as I heard it.

Anyone else can feel free to post their home rooms. I'll post my old and current one as an example of how terrible things can be.

JayTerrance, post: 436574, member: 49019 wrote: Yeah - investing $25K in 8 foot ceilings doesn't seem like a good ROI. If I'm spending anything over $10k I would demand 14 ft ceilings or higher. Actually, I wouldn't invest any money at all in something that has 8 foot ceilings...removable treatments at best.

However, it is a good point being made that you can "learn the room", as I have had to learn my home studio's control room with a 12 foot ceiling. But 8 foot ceilings would really make that exponentially tough.

Demanding 14' ceilings is fine, but how many houses have them? Maybe you'll find a vaulted one, that's about it.

All the golden room ratios, and sound tests in general wich are reference points not law, are based on 10' ceilings. No more. No less. And they aren't scaleable. I work in a room that produced a handful of platinum and gold records and it has 10' ceilings 9.5 up to the drop ceiling. I was lucky enough to rebuild it, and have not produced platinum or gold myself :)

Kurt Foster, post: 436544, member: 7836 wrote: i don't think that space is suitable to invest that much into. i wouldn't put more than $200 or $300 for treatments into it but i certainly wouldn't do any construction. not if you're really serious about recording and mixing real instruments live. if all you do is vst's you could record but i would still worry about mixing. the C/R as presented has issues too, mainly the fact you have it firing into compression. mix rooms should open up (like a horn) not close down. treatments cannot compensate for that.

by the time you divide it in to a C/R and live room, along with how low the ceiling is, you just don't have a suitable space. even if you do a one room thing, you still have the ceiling that is way too low. if you could raise the ceiling to 14 feet, you could do a mix room there.

The LEDE room I mix in has a compression ceiling and honest bass they the 813cs.

Let's not forget that a trap needs 1/4 wavelength of the mode to be effective. And tuned helmholtz resonators set in a corner can dip to 80hz with about an octave wffwctive bandwidth. This achieved with a 1.5-2' cavity, and 1/8" board spacing, dampened by insulation.

Subwoofers don't do anything to fix the nulls. A cancellation is a cancellation.

Lol this is my old bedroom mix spot. Many things are far from ideal. Notice the crappy gear and 80hz resonators, and 4" mineral panels that are pillowy because i didn't use Ridgid stuff. The cloud was 1x2 frame with a moving blanket. About $400 of stuff.

Punkers in action! Go!

Bonello criteria for small rooms

And one of my favorite memes lol

This is my pathetic setup now, as a couch dweller. So belive me Marcos spot is looking pretty good. Although this is a 12x 32 room with a hallway so it's bass is decent on those speakers, which are sealed with a passive radiator at 40hz to give it some sub before the sharp cutoff at 37hz. I don't mix here or record or evaluate, just listen. I've also have a 32" led hdtv in between now. Without chaos there can be no order.

Well I sprung for a 3$ file converter app so hopefully this will work. This is unmastered, unreleased we ended up going w the version we did to tape at the practice space. This was so time around 2013.

D-112 kick out, 57 an top, 414(s) overhead and I ther a hi hat snare bottom or kick in mic. 5 total reguardless.

In 9x11x8.5 booth. Splayed walls and ceiling. We barely fit the Yamaha kit in, and the drummer was sweating. The owner didn't want to install ac. A huge oversight...

[MEDIA=audio]http://recording.or…

Attached files Lefty_-_Where_I_GO(EP_versio.mp3 (4.8 MB) 

@Brien Holcombe

I was wondering if you could tell us how to Calculate 'how much' attenuation a corner resonator or trap in general would absorb at the center frequency.

I can't seem to find a breakdown of how is done. I think it relates to GFR, density, volume, and distance from source, and amplitude. The 'what frequency' is fairly easily calculated, but the 'how much' at that frequency in terms of db's seems evasive.

I was made to think about the notion you 33Hz capability to properly when I tried to watch a bass tutorial on youtube today - and my macbook proved it's sonic quality by not letting me hear any bass, whatsoever - It was all low end stuff and the Macbook couldn't tell me if it was mixed properly or not. It's fine to have monitors that go that low, but there seems little point if few people listening have them?

paulears, post: 436617, member: 47782 wrote: I was made to think about the notion you 33Hz capability to properly when I tried to watch a bass tutorial on youtube today - and my macbook proved it's sonic quality by not letting me hear any bass, whatsoever - It was all low end stuff and the Macbook couldn't tell me if it was mixed properly or not. It's fine to have monitors that go that low, but there seems little point if few people listening have them?

I know that some soundcard and audio interface have settings that can affect the frequencies. In the driver or in the OS, I've seen filters that were reducing HF I wouldn't surprise the same can happen for LF.

A long time ago, I was doing some Spectral analisis and was puzzle by the results. I found it was one of those settings. lol
My reference is from a PC but I'm currious as if it could be something similar for you Paul.

I suspect it's just tiny speakers - headphones fine! I'd just assumed the bass was rolled off - not totally absent. I'll try it with some tones!

EDIT
Not at all what I expected. Using test tones - there is output at 200Hz, 160Hz nothing!, and below that the same, and normal output levels are not restored until 300Hz and over. even worse is the pink noise response. Out of phase pink noise reduces drastically in volume and is very weedy. There's a bit at 1K, then a trough, then another peak at 2K then another at 8K then it drops off. Looking at pink noise at 500mm away from the computer, the bottom end starts to tail off steeply below 250Hz

That's a very unusual result, and I don't quite know what it means. On music, it doesn't sound so severe as it perhaps should?

paulears, post: 436617, member: 47782 wrote: I was made to think about the notion you 33Hz capability to properly when I tried to watch a bass tutorial on youtube today - and my macbook proved it's sonic quality by not letting me hear any bass, whatsoever - It was all low end stuff and the Macbook couldn't tell me if it was mixed properly or not. It's fine to have monitors that go that low, but there seems little point if few people listening have them?

Not "letting you" hear any bass does not prove the quality, that only displays the limitations of a small speaker. You have to remember with equipment comes "fundamental frequency", e.g. the best you are going to get out of your speaker is not a reflection of the entire spectrum of what is present, only what it is "your" equipment will allow to pass.

That's exact5ly my point, Brien - what is the point in spending time on a perfect mix for people with super-systems only? I'd not realised my mac was as poor at the bottom as it is, and even taking the size of the speakers into account, it's bad.

paulears, post: 436634, member: 47782 wrote: That's exact5ly my point, Brien - what is the point in spending time on a perfect mix for people with super-systems only? I'd not realised my mac was as poor at the bottom as it is, and even taking the size of the speakers into account, it's bad.

Man you've got to satisfy those teenager with modified Honda Civic, They've got BASS !! :ROFLMAO:

Seriously, There's a trend of people going for good headphones. At least some of them will hear more of our work..
Living room music is becoming rare, most sound systems are movie sound oriented and not music.. I've got a 1k surround sound PA for my home theator, man music sucks on it !!

pcrecord, post: 436635, member: 46460 wrote: Man you've got to satisfy those teenager with modified Honda Civic, They've got BASS !! :ROFLMAO:

Correct. It is invalid to think that the 20 somethings are the target audience for music and that music is consumed via small gadgets. Even in the day of AM only radio the frequency spectrum was still available even if the equipment that the material was presented on had limitations. I still listen to things on various different platforms and the bigger it gets the wider the spectrum gets and the better I like it. I know we are way way off the topic of "How Much Does A Recording Studio Cost?", but let me ask this.

How much does a recording studio cost if all you can do is generate music that can only be heard correctly if it is on a Mac? When I listen to it in my truck with 250 watt rms...all I hear is a thin sounding lifeless piece of work, loud, but thin. So the cost of developing a recording studio that is aimed at the lowest common denominator is now costing me since I have to focus on a small slice of the pie and nothing outside of that.

In the software world they call it "backwards compatibility".

Yes as far as costs DonnyThompson Kurt Foster JayTerrance

I am curious what your investments were. For two reasons total cost, and cost per sqf.

It is my hunch that cost per Sqft is the same reguardless of scale. And I think that the 2milion (like the defunct but beautiful ante up in Ohio) dollar builds are mostly cosmetic and could be done at about 1/3 of that figure done economically. That's speculation.

If you scale the money with inflation I think it'd all be about the same, or cheaper today by a bit.

I think we will see 3 price points 5-10k home, 25k small comercial level, and 75k full comcerial level.

My hunch is $100 per sqf average for studio construction accross the board. If you have a board double that number lol.

kmetal, post: 436645, member: 37533 wrote: I am curious what your investments were. For two reasons total cost, and cost per sqf.

Oh Lord, Kyle... that was so long ago, and I spent so much money over a period of so many years....because I was continually making improvements over time; I'd have to go back and look to get an exact figure. (Of course, in those days, it wasn't as difficult to recoup your outlay, as it it today, either).

I can tell you that my initial cost-outlay was around $20 G's or so, and this was in '87 (?)... for a 1500 Sq. Ft studio ( not including two offices, a tape duplication room, a lobby and various storage areas) which was construction only, of course... and this included the studio design by a former studio designer friend of mine, who had since moved on to more profitable pastures - LOL - but who came out of retirement to help me out, because I knew him well, and he wanted to help...so I probably got off cheap by the standards at that time.

And, we're talking about an initial investment of $20 G's in the mid 80's, which was 30+ years ago... that would be... what... almost 40 G's now?

That didn't include any gear, of course... and that figure would be really tough to nail down, because it was so ever-changing, as new pieces became available and older pieces became obsolete...and I didn't come into the business owning nothing - I had a decent amount of gear already at the time, having moved out of a home studio...

If I had to guess, and included gear overall, I'd say maybe a total of $70 grand? Which seems dirt-cheap when compared to a studio like Real World or The Record Plant... but then again, I was never in that league anyway; my studio was considered to be of the mid-level pro caliber.

Yeah, I was one of a few a big fish in a medium sized pond in this area (Northeast Ohio, which included Cleveland, Akron, Canton, Youngstown), but a very small "frye" indeed, ( a guppy, really, LOL) when compared to those million dollar A-Rooms in places like NYC, Nashville, Toronto and Los Angeles. While I'd mixed on Neve's and SSL's and Trident's as a hired gun engineer at other studios, I never had the luxury of owning that caliber of gear in my own studio. My stuff was mid-level pro; Neotek Console, MCI, Revox and Tascam 1" and 2" machines, a decent rack of OB gear... but I could have never competed with the more expensive rooms... and in my area, even if I'd had that gear, I doubt I could have ever paid for it through sessions...

But as you mentioned, some of that could be less - because the price of gear has come down considerably ( not including those classic sought after models)... conversion alone is much better - and much cheaper - if you compare it, dollar for dollar, against those early stand-alone models; and, digital provides much more bang for the buck in terms of track counts, built in processing, and editing; which equates to time spent working, which of course in this business equates to money - and because we can work more efficiently, and quicker, we can get more done in shorter amounts of time.... although there would be some that might argue that this is a money-loser and not a money-maker...

Your biggest obstacle isn't going to be in building your studio, my friend.... your biggest hurdle is going to be after your studio is built - trying to convince those bedroom DIY'ers why they should pay you, instead of doing it themselves for free, using an M-Box, Pro Tools First, and a Behringer C1 condenser as their main rig. You know the reasons, and I know the reasons... but you have to convince them of the reasons. And that's not all that easy to do these days, where everyone with a computer now has a "studio" in their bedroom.

The last thing I can tell you is this... whatever your project estimate is, whatever your budget is... you'd be best-off, at the very least, to multiply your original estimate by 1.5, because there will almost always be unforeseen obstacles to face, that will increase the cost of the project. And... it's not always the "big" unforeseen obstacles that will increase the costs, either... most of the time, it's a bunch of little ones that can end up jacking the cost up. ;)

FWIW

True words Donny, thanks for the reply. This is such a common question its good to have perspective. According to an inflation calculator 20k and 1985 is 44k today

Lol I use the term 'investment' loosely.

The way I see it is your upfront cost is not recoupable in the studio business. Which depending on financial situation and accounting methods might fly.

So you start from zero after upfront costs and hopefully can cover living and operating expenses.

It's interesting to try and find areas of finishing returns or truly wasted money.

6 years working at commercial studios (counting construction time) has not shown me full time work, or living wages. It's fun, and has upped my status as a true professional with plenty, plenty of room to improve. Mixing in a room you can mix to changed it for me. Recording real professionals also changed it. A true high end signal chain front to back was the last aha. But those have nothing to done finances. Just experience, mainly at others expense and my 'extra' time putting in tons of free labour to get it done.

I venture to say the 1.5 x the estimate is more like 3-5 in money and time.

Also another interesting point you bring up is the 'evolution' aspect. Very few studios seem to set and forget the acoustics. Normandy was rebuilt 3x in the heyday and once recently.

Even abbey road has redone studio 3, I belive is the one. And the main studio has undergone a lot of changes over the years as well. There's a great book on Abbey roads history from inception to common era. It's like $100 so I got it at the library.

Much of the reason my Buisness model has shifted to multimedia and remote mixing is because of the lack of local Buisness at the studios. Everyone said it and I didn't doubt it, and its turned out to be true.

It's seems at least the tracking phase is mostly done by the artist. And mixing work isn't super common either. I think expanding to a worldwide market is the only chance. A couple of nice photos of the fancy studio and an add for $100 per song is the angle I'm going to try.

And in truth live acoustic drums and strings are really the only things imo that keeps a large studio relavent in the current era. Everything else can be done on a similar level, all other things being equal.

A booth is a booth at a certain point. Yeah bigger is usually better. I've never liked the sound of my guitar amps in ISO booths. I've gotten just fine results with vocals in basements with some baffles around.

Good live drums are tough tho in non studio enviornments. Although augmenting w samples again levels the playing field.

Truth be told the only time I hear true 'album' quality work is from albums released commercially. This applies from home to the studios. I think a lot of people get dissapointed whe they get into the studio and it looks the part but the result isn't much better than a decent home job. Much of which has to do w talent, but still.

I'm glad I haven't invested (there's that word again) in a ton of gear and a full sized studio as I once wanted. The amount of time 18 channels gets used at once can't justify it to me.

I remember an interview w a lady studio manager (maybe sunset sound) and she said they upgrade the whole computer system every 1.5-3 years. How could I compete. That's a huge separation between mid pro and elite.

I've made much more money from building studios and helping people with their home stuff than recording. Live sound falls in the middle or exceeds both. I just got tired of the scene. I'm going to get in the door of a dedicated theater or performance club if/when I go that route.

Like I say everyone with a couple hundred and a computer records and they all want to lmao how to "soundproof" and treat the room. I don't see it going away.

I think that the bottom line - and it was true to an extent 25 years ago as well, but so much even more so now - because of the availability of the technology to whomever has the money to spend, regardless of talent and skill - is to do it for yourself, first.

Do it because you love doing it, and because it's what drives you. Do it because you'd do it whether you made any money at it or not. Do it so that you can record only yourself, if that's all that it ever comes down to... and if you do make some money at it, then that's an added bonus; and I'm not singlling you out, Kyle... I'd express this same sentiment to anyone who was serious about wanting to build a "pro" studio in this day and age, when truly pro and famous rooms are closing their doors at an alarming rate.

It's not a good investment, and as the years pass, it gets even worse... and if profit is your main goal, then there are infinitely more profitable business choices to look at instead.

Do it because you love it - first and foremost - and if you end up making a few bucks along the way, consider yourself to be very lucky. ;)

Agreed d. Encouraging words for anyone.

I think honestly (for me) having some variation in the career helps keep the actual recording and mixing fresh, it keeps that love alive in a way. I worked almost every day for a year and a half on a project, painstakingly editing (death metal note for note, kick for kick) and redoing because of technical problems and it wore on me. I actually started to hate it a bit (a lot), like when is this over!!!!??! Sleeping at the studio, staring at the screen to the point of like literal physical pain and exhaustion. The hiatus is doing me well.

Money aside I wouldn't have it any other way. I can hop on a construction crew or teach school or work my way into financing any day. I've seen many talented kids quit and go get other jobs for girls or stability. It's a test of attrition. I've just gotta evolve with the times and not let my personal taste and preferences rule all the time. It's a service industry.

I watch a thing called top 10 rules for success, short interviews with successful people like Steve jobs, will smith, Elon musk, very very rich men and women. 3 common threads with all of them. NONE of them picked what they do becuase they thought it would make them money. They all chased the passion. The all FAILED big time at one point or more, they say don't be afraid of failure. And at least half of them were dropouts or didn't attend college.

I've shared much of those sentiments. I stopped college end of junior year, I had my fill and gave sound a go. High school I finished early with all my credits and got booted for a stupid reason.

The funny thing is d, the phone rings. Not off the hook, but something seems to come up. I stopped worrying a few years ago about that. I kind of just belive. Besides rent (live with parents). I've managed to pay all my living expenses, gear purchases, and fun stuff. Everything but rent.

The only actual rule i put on myself was if I stopped loving it, I would hang it up. So between hating that death metal project, lifestyle reform, dealing w some personal issues i put off, and restructuring the Buisness plan, I'm reviving. I just officially registered a www domain, and I've got some stuff in the works. It doesn't bother me about my acruing debt or selling off most of my stuff. It's all part of 30's Kyle. My experiences have been mostly good, and enough proof that it can be done. And at the end of the day I'll hopefully feel satisfied. And maybe just maybe the world will know my name. There's always that chance. But if I make a decent living I'll consider myself lucky. There's a lot of great intelligent interesting people on the music community. I have very few regrets about jumping in full force, it's always all or nothing w me in any facet.

Here's to it!!