I have both a 2408 (mark 1) and a 1224. The 1224 definitely smokes the old 2408's converters to my ears: phatter, more dimensional, creamier, pick your adjective. Supposedly the 2408mkII narrows the gap somewhat, but you're still looking at 24-bit conversion (on the 1224) versus 20-bit (2408).

If you want some more real-world commentary from people who have both boxes, try the MOTU-Mac mailing list on Topica.com and do a keyword search under "2408 vs 1224" - you'll find a LOT of user comments.

On a related note...

I'm looking at getting a bunch more D-to-A conversion for my MOTU rig, and I really need it to sound as slammin' as possible.

I was gonna buy a stack of Apogee AD-8000's, which I have used and loved on several ProTools rigs in the past... but I did some more looking around. Apparently the Mytek 8X96 boxes are getting rave reviews, and you can pick 'em up for substantially cheaper than the Apogees. Also dbTech makes a comparably priced multichannel converter. Then you've got the Prism stuff, which is pricier but I'm sure sounds killer... it had better, for that kind of dough.

It's going to be beyond me to set up a converter shootout with *ALL* of the above mentioned converters... so I'm hoping for some words of wisdom from you guys. Has anyone had a chance to audition any or all of the converters mentioned above, especially on the D-to-A side of things? Which of these are absolutely "must-hear"? Is the Mytek as good as everyone claims?

I dunno how you guys feel about Apogee, but I've always been partial to the coloration of Apogee converters, and I think the AD-8000 is a great-sounding box... but for that kind of $$ I definitely wanna check out all the options.

Input appreciated!

-e

Kid,
The 2408 mk2 is not as deep as the 1224, the 1224 is 116 db dynamic range (they claim) and the 2408 is 105 db dynamic range and you can hear it big time. If you got the bucks the 1296 looks like a good deal also (the way of the NEAR future is 96khz). I heard it was a little wider and cleaner than the 1224 in the upper register (above 15K).
Jolson,
What about the Millennia converters? They have some of the most unadulterated supper high end boxes out there. IMO I think Apogee is great stuff but a little over priced. Then again maybe I’m just a little spoiled from the great prices you get MOTU stuff for. ;)

[ March 17, 2001: Message edited by: Tony C ]

Jolson, I just saw my previous post and realized I mad a mistake in mentioning "Mellennia". What I ment was *Mytek*. I have pres on my mind lately, sorry :confused:

So have you had a chance to audition the Myteks yourself? I'm trying to get my dealer to set up an A/B test (Mytek vs. Apogee vs. 1224, just for yuks). Anything else I should be looking at, converter-wise? Prism? DB Tech? Lucid?

dont forget to try RME's ADI-8 DS/Pro.

i think im adding a 1296. anyone used this yet? comments?

Over christmas I got a 1296 to basically take over all duties from my 2408 (original). It's a great unit. ABing the two, the differences are obvious: more depth, more 3D, etc. etc.
And the meters are great too. I don't know if it would hold its own against an Apogee (I don't really care), but it's a significant step up. I consider it a good investment.

thats what [2408] im replacing and an ADAT XT's ADAC's. i dont really care if it doesnt compete with an apogee but apogees are losing value REALLY quickly nowadays. i know several people unloading them lately as these new generations of ADACs simply outweight cost with performance.

So has anyone else picked up the 1296 yet?

I'd sure like to hear some reports from the trenches about what 96kHz *really* sounds like. Anyone done any listening tests?

I have been at this ab thing for awhile motu,appogee,mytek ect.. Most of these box's with just a few tracks it is very hard to tell the differance(sittin there like somekind of bloudhound trying to hear it)but when I got ahold of a Lucid box it was flat out night and day.I got rid of a adi 8 pro in a heartbeat and you don't need 24 tracks to hear it just 1. Check it out!
BT

i ended up getting a 1296 and quite impressed, its remarkably better than the 2408[v.1]. night and day.

i've owned a 2408 and an apogee rosetta and the motu 1296.

there is a difference...motu told me the A/d converters going in on the 2408 and 1296 are the same but the D/A coming out are different (the 1296 is better). i agree.

but no D/A converters sound great on these boxes...you have to spend big money for those sounds...so most people prefer to keep it digital AFTER the first A/D conversion.

i a/B tested the apogee with the 1296. it sounds better...but not to the point where i could see the image in my speakers 100 times clearer than with the 1296. but i kept the rosetta too...maybe simply becuase the name apogee has been pounded into my brain.

i hear great things about RME AD boxes (steinberg puts them in their nuendo stuff too).

BT..I've got some tracks coming in for mixing that Fletcher recorded with Lucid to Radar at a studio "down the street"
Gonna mix it in Dp on a D8b with Bomb, Channelstrip, Waves and Altiverb
Analog boy (fletcher..we're neigbors and good buds) will be amazed

just a prediction :-)

Chris,
I read a thread on Fletchers forum about the tracking he did with the Lucid/Radar and how he was pretty happy with it. The question I had was...if he wasn't using the Radar converters why not just record to a computer hard disk (it seemed he already knew it was going to be mixed in DP)? Was the Radar used for ease of tracking...or was there some other reason.
Also, once you get the tracks it looks like you aren't going to return to analog for anything. If you are recording with good quality converters like Lucid is it possible to return to analog for some processing and get back to digital without negative effects? I know in theory its not a good thing to do...I was just wondering if the new crop of converters or 96k/24bit might make this less of a no no than it is in a 44.1/16bit world. Do these studios with great racks of gear just sit idle after tracking to digital, resorting just to plugs for mixing, because they don't want another AD/DA?

Chris wrote:
BT..I've got some tracks coming in for mixing that Fletcher recorded with Lucid to Radar at a studio "down the street"
Gonna mix it in Dp on a D8b with Bomb, Channelstrip, Waves and Altiverb

The question I had was...if he wasn't using the Radar converters why not just record to a computer hard disk (it seemed he already knew it was going to be mixed in DP)?

I think he wanted both options

He had the Radar unit handy at the shop and the client would have had to dismantle their studio to get the job done..ya know?

Was the Radar used for ease of tracking...or was there some other reason.

I think he wanted to see the Radar in action at one of his own sessions..Screwing around with a CPU/DAW ain't his cup of tea

Also, once you get the tracks it looks like you aren't going to return to analog for anything.

I might..in fact I do all the time..things like tape delay and spring reverb float my boat often. It's only an effects return ..no big deal right?

If you are recording with good quality converters like Lucid is it possible to return to analog for some processing and get back to digital without negative effects?

sure

I know in theory its not a good thing to do...I was just wondering if the new crop of converters or 96k/24bit might make this less of a no no than it is in a 44.1/16bit world.

bingo

Do these studios with great racks of gear just sit idle after tracking to digital, resorting just to plugs for mixing, because they don't want another AD/DA?

Depends on who's driving. right? In my view it depends apon what the track sounds like to begin with.. (can I sacrifice this to obtain that) My personal taste supercedes conventional wisdom hands down every time.. but this is an area I'm looking to delve into on this project. Surely ..if I want to wak the lead vocal with my Summit compressor a Lucid I/O would calm my nerves a bit :-)

I just set up a new rig with an 896 and I am going nuts with the converter thing again.All my drums are tracked at a studio with a great room and top shelf stuff just about anything you could think of under the sun.Then it all comes to my house where we do guitars and vocal and some keys.I can do this 2 tracks at a time so it opens up a bunch of options Apogee PSX,Lucid,Hedd ect..can be aes in to the 896 and monitored great.The cheapest is the Lucid but when you put da in to the picture it closes the gap and I start looking at the other options.Let me know what you think of the tracks when you get them.
Peace
BT

BT

there was no "Lucid difference" in evidence. The tracks contained large amounts of leakage and some of the drum tracks were over-modulated..real tough to tell

We finished a mix using the apogee clock card in my D8b and are planning to redump the mix with the Lucid soon. If there's going to be a sonic difference we may hear it then..
I'll keep ya posted