I've been saying the same thing for a long time too...

Within the next couple months, look for an article in Mix (and EQ?) about the 6 CD special edition set of the music of Disneyland. The whole project was done in Sequoia using the Algorithmix plugins- all of them. The EQ's, denoise, decrackle, and reNOVAtor.

--Ben

FifthCircle wrote: I've been saying the same thing for a long time too...

Within the next couple months, look for an article in Mix (and EQ?) about the 6 CD special edition set of the music of Disneyland. The whole project was done in Sequoia using the Algorithmix plugins- all of them. The EQ's, denoise, decrackle, and reNOVAtor.

--Ben

Yeah, I guess you have - props due... :oops:

Is this one of the big projects you've been working on lately?

Copies available??

Sorry-

I didn't do the project (I wish), my colleague Jeff Sheridan did it... I just watched him do a lot of it when I'd be over at his studio.

I've been busy with other projects lately, but nothing of quite that stature. I have a christmas choral CD coming out this fall, a big brass band CD, just had an acapella choir CD come out that I edited and mastered. I'm going to Oklahoma this week to record a festival that will go out on Performance Today... We'll have some really awesome artists out there (mostly Chamber Music Lincoln Center people).

--Ben

That's good to hear you say that, Jeremy; I've been considering the Alogorithmix noise reduction tools.

I have reNOVAtor, and I can tell you it is truly as awesome for what it does - similar to your description of the EQ and Denoiser. I'm still learning with it, but it's an amazing tool.

I'm working on a review of it, but I think there's more to learn about it before I finish it. It's one of those "why didn't they think of this before?" tools. It's a plug in for Sequoia or Pyramix (although they claim a stand-alone version is coming out), and it's not cheap. When you open a sound clip, there is a spectral view display that is pitch (vertical), time (horizontal), and amplitude (colors - the quietest being blue/green and the loudest goes from red to orange to yellow/white.)

The logic is simple: You draw a box around the area you want to remove and select "process." (not at all unlike the "Crop" tool in photoshop, etc.) reNOVAtor removes the noise gently (on a graded curve, no doubt) and 'Fills in' the area with sound from before and after the noise. You can also zoom in tight for more accurate reduction and greater control; and nothing is permanent until you hit "Accept".

It's not perfect nor is it foolproof; I'd suggest a few improvements like letting you hear the highlighted area, before hitting 'process', but wow....when it works, it's astounding. WHat helps it work much better is if the music is sustained, and the offensive noise is spikey or non-sinewave (music) like. Sustained notes remain unaffected, for example,while spikes and transients get whisked away.

You can also see infrasonics and other wierdness you might miss with just an FFT display, it's truly a 3-D view of your music tracks. For many CDs I master, it's a great tool to take one last final look at each track to make sure I didn't miss something - either rumbly sub-bass, or highpitched gremlins.

Between the almost magical ability to "Wipe away" extraneous noise and "See" the good as well as the bad, this is a tool that will just blow you away, and you'll wonder how you ever lived without it.

I've been saveing up for six months now to get the full monty of Algoritmix plugs! What You write here guy's just makes me more eager!!!

Both the reNOVAtor and the deNOICER sounds like the absolutely best!

/ptr

Holy ....

And here I was happy that I could afford Samplitude Pro. Not sure what to do.

Between you, you have just made one of the most impressive reviews I have read, meaning that it gave an impression on me.

Start saving I guess.

Gunnar.

ghellquist wrote: Holy ....

And here I was happy that I could afford Samplitude Pro. Not sure what to do.

http://www.fairfaxcryobank.com/

It's a hot commodity nowadays...

Do any of you Algo users have access to Adobe Audition? That's what I'm currently using for noise reduction, and consider it to be quite good. I'd be interested in a comparison.

FWIW, I have requested a demo - so I'll be able to compare myself - I assume - soon. I recently recorded a violin recital with BAD AC noise in the background. AA cleaned it up pretty darn well. I only messed with the Samplitude denoiser for a few minutes, but that was long enough for me to get the impression that it doesn't hold a candle to Auditions NR tool.

Hey Karl,

I've used the NR tool in Cool Edit Pro 2.0 and found it to be quite good but still had issues with artifacts. Don't get me wrong, it did milder processing quite well, but once you started to get aggressive with the processing, it simply caused way to many artifacts. It's possible Adobe made this better, but I don't know.

As for the comparison between the 2, it simply comes down to this for me - the Algo stuff can be pushed rather aggressively before artificacts begin to appear - then you can tweak the heck out of it and then the artifacts go away altogether. True, if you try to go nuts with the correction, you'll hear serious artifacts, but any level of sane reduction is possible sans artifacts with the Algo stuff.

J.

CEDAR Retouch

JoeH wrote: I'm working on a review of it, but I think there's more to learn about it before I finish it. It's one of those "why didn't they think of this before?" tools.

Actually, they did! CEDAR Retouch has been doing exactly this since before reNOVAtor came along. I think there may even be a huff over how similar it is...

I've never used the Algorithmix version, but I agree that this kind of software is a must in the digital age of strange noises, chair squeaks, coughs, whathaveyou. Retouch works incredibly well, but for those tricky or longer noises it does require a real art, just like editing. So keep fooling with it... try small individual horizontal pieces on top of each other instead of one long vertical on a noise, for example. I agree and I don't see how a mastering engineer could get by without it!

The Algorithmix EQ's and NoiseFree are indeed incredible. Very smooth. I think the NoiseFree beat the pants off the System 6000 Backdrop, and finding a great setting was much quicker than the same with CEDAR Denoise. It includes some great controls.

Hi to all! I am new to this forum and when I saw this thread I felt I had to chime in. I agree with all of the above posting regarding all of the algotithmix plug-ins. They are all phenomenal! I first started using the windows stand-alone version of reNOVAtor this year and I have been continually shocked by how fantastic it is. I have done a few restoration projects for some of my clients and they have amazed as well.

After using reNOVAtor, I then became interested in the other plug-ins. I tried using NoiseFree to remove AC rumble from a solo violin recording of Bach and the result was amazing. The recording was unusable prior to using NoiesFree. After ruuning it through NoiseFree it removed 99% of the AC rumble without any artifacts!

Then I had a client who is one of the first violinist for the LA Philharmonic that wanted me to "bring out the violin solo" in a previosly recorded violin and chamber orchestra recording. I used the Algorithmix Linear Phase EQ Red and I was again shocked. I never thought that one could have such precise and artifact-free and natural sounding EQ until I used the EQs by Algorithmix.

As far as I am concerned these guys make the best plug-ins on the planet and if you are serious about your audio take a good look at the Algorithmix plug-ins. Yuo can request Demos from their website. It was the best money that I ever spent.

I recently found out that there is a version of reNOVAtor that can be used within Wavelab 5 and soon to be used within Nuendo 3.

I downloaded the demo, but I can't open the EQs in Samplitude. The authorisation went ok, but the only one I have been able to use is reNOVAtor, and it's a wonderful tool. Things don't sound like they've been messed with -which is really cool! You change something and it sounds like it was meant to be that way. I think that is seriously impressive!

I've been really interested in an EQ that doesn't cause phase anomalies, so I'm more than a little disappointed that I can't use the EQ demos. I REALLY wanted to be able to play with these :cry:

John

As I understand it, a program needs additional programming hooks to work with this plugin series (other than Renovator), and this is one of the ways that Samplitude is intentionally crippled, to differentiate it from Sequoia.

So for us Samplitude owners, we have to add the cost of the Sequoia upgrade before we can even consider these plugins.

foldedpath wrote: As I understand it, a program needs additional programming hooks to work with this plugin series (other than Renovator), and this is one of the ways that Samplitude is intentionally crippled, to differentiate it from Sequoia.

So for us Samplitude owners, we have to add the cost of the Sequoia upgrade before we can even consider these plugins.

Thanks for clearing that up. I looked at the documentation and right enough it said that Sequoia was required for the demo, but on the website it says Sam7 will work but not with full functionality :evil:
John

I can't comment on the functionality of the EQ demos, but I know that the fully functional version of the Linear phase EQ Red and Orange are Direct -X plugins that should work on any host program that implements the Direct-X specification. I currently use both of these programs in Wavelab 4 and Nuendo 3 with no problems. These EQs are fantastic! They are the most naturally sounding EQs that I have ever heard and I do not hear any phase problems or artifacts.

Try sending Algorithmix an email and maybe they can help you get the demos to in Samplitude.

Good Luck!

I think only Sequoia is required for the ReNOVAtor plug. All the others you can load, but will give you the error that you need the WIBU-Key to unlock. If you send the proper file to Algo, they'll modify it for you so that you have a working demo (for roughly 2 weeks.)

I had a little confusion with this at first, but I since figured it out.

J.

Yeah, I had that backwards in my previous post, sorry. The Algorithmix LP EQ's are normal DirectX plugins and will run in Samplitude. It's the ReNOVator that requires Sequoia, although it looks like there is also a standalone Win/XP version that you might be able to use if you didn't want to upgrade from Samplitude.

Yea, there is a stand-alone Windows XP version of reNOVAtor that is available as a demo that can be requested from Algorithmix.

I also had a chance to test the Red and Orange EQ. I was also VERY impressed by the neutrality and the absence of any coloration of any kind (pre-echo, phase anomalies, etc.).

HOWEVER I am very much concerned by the CPU requirements to run these tools. On my 2.8GHz P4-2Gb mem system, I can only run 3-4 instances of Orange EQ at High Quality setting making it unsusable in a mix (freeze can obviously help but...). For mastering purposes, I think it is an awesome product.

All in all, I finally decided not to shell out the cash because of the CPU hit issue. For that kind of money, I think Algorithmix should have provided an hardware acceleration solution, IMHO.

Best,
Thomas

Hey Thomas -

I'm glad you point this out. I am terribly thrilled with ALL the plugs that I've tried so far, but you are absolutely right. I run a P4 3.0 Ghz Extreme Edition (large cashe, hyperthreading, etc.) For some reason, if I use 2 noise reduction plugs and 2 EQs, my system can't handle it. The CPU does just fine and it shows in "Task Manager" a CPU load of roughly 60%, but Sequoia registers this as 110% (since it doesn't see the second CPU) and won't allow it to continue. It's rather frustrating.

For the noise-reduction solution, I've heard some great things about the NR tool on the new TC Powercore card - I think I'll give it a try. As for the EQ, I'm torn - I really do love the Orange, but I may have to go with the Weiss or the Z-Systems afterall.

The ReNOVAtor though - this is an absolute necessity. I just wish it didn't cost an arm and a leg...

J.

A couple things-

First of all, listen- you are complaining about multiple instances of a plugin that was designed to be used as a mastering tool- ie single instances. Just like a piece of hardware. I agree that it is a CPU hog. The few times I've used it, I've been pretty amazed at what it does to my processing load, but I'd be willing to put up with that for how it sounds.

If you are using it to mix, use the Freeze function and you'll regain your CPU. You still come out ahead using a tool of the quality of stand-alone hardware where you get to use it multiple times. Either that or get a very powerful computer to run them on.

Second- Jeremy, I have the powercore restoration suite. The quality it just mediocre. I'm really not overly impressed with it. Feel free to contact me if you need specifics, but what it comes down to is that it is very difficult to remove much of anything without substantial artifacts. Multiple instances don't necessarily help, either. Rather, I find myself using a little PoCo restoration and a little bit of the Sequoia dehisser/declipper/etc.. With the Algorithmix tools, I find that I don't need to do that.

--Ben

I am running a single P4 2.8 and I have experienced the same problem, so I simply audition the EQ in "low" accuracy and when I am satisfied I bounce it, which I would have to do to get a redbook WAV and DDP anyway.

If you want different EQ on several channels, that means several outboard boxes-- OUCH$$!! And if you are bouncing to avoid that, you are already in the same boat as my scenario, unless I have misunderstood your problem.

Rich

No, the EQ I like to use as a mastering tool, but again, it's a CPU hog. If I use it (even 1 instance) with a few other tools, I find the system to overloaded. And the PC I use is one of the most powerful on the market. Hence, an outboard box still isn't that much of a problem. I can do it one of a few ways - route the sub-master through the external box into a master recorder such as the masterlink -OR- route it back into another instance of Sequoia. Neither of these poses a problem.

The NR tool is what I'm complaining about most. It works best when you use it on a track by track basis. (It is significantly better that way!) Using it on the final mix, you are still dealing with a lot of artifacts. Of course, you could easily freeze each track, but you're talking about a LOT of hard drive space on a 6 to 8 track project lasting over an hour.

Don't get me wrong, I still really like the plugs - I'm just curious how much benefit these VERY expensive plugs will give me. A Weiss or Z-Sys box is a universal tool - if I go Sadie or Pyramix or Sonic or Sonoma, I can still use all either of these devices - no dough wasted.

As for the NR, it's just difficult to say. I find the Algo stuff VERY powerful, but just too resource intensive. Maybe I'll find a good compromise somewhere down the line.

But I must stress, the ReNOVAtor is simply an indispensible (if not really expensive) tool.

J.

No argument-- they are CPU hogs. The way I use NoiseFree is to sample each track where noise is significant. You are correct about the track-by-track approach as each noise profiel differs with the mic and location. I will tweak each track and then bounce the whole mess to redbook when I'm done, so I avoid the increased storage of freezing tracks. Plus in Seq v7 there are sometimes latency problems that freezing does not avoid.

That said, I rarely need to use NR on more tracks than the mains and hall. The others are usually insignificant or can be fixed with a hipass filter.

Even if you are doing a surround mix, this intermediate bounce should not take THAT much real estate, esp with 200GB Barracudas going for about $100.

For the stereo redbook fold-down you have no increased file size, just increased time for the bounce.

Or am I just not getting it?

Rich

Nope, I think you got it.

Good point about the mains being the primary ones needing NR - it's true.

For the most part (I would say 95-98%) I don't use NR at all on a mix, but when I need it, I need it bad.

I still think it's the best one I've ever heard, I just wish I could farm the responsibilities out to a different processor. (There are some mods that allow you to farm some plugs out to a 3D processor on AGP buses to alleviate the strain on CPUs - that would be AWESOME!)

J.

Well, patience will have its rewards. The Dual (and quad) core 64 bit CPU's coming out (late in the year, so they say) should take care of a lot of the horsepower needed for this sort of thing.

Of course, as water always seeks its own level, we'll no sooner get the added CPU power and then we'll find new ways to stop it up with even MORE DSP stuff. :twisted:

First of all, listen- you are complaining about multiple instances of a plugin that was designed to be used as a mastering tool- ie single instances. Just like a piece of hardware.

Well, I am sorry Ben, but this is not hardware so I expect more. Also knowing that it was designed for mastering purposes will not change my decision. IMO I think Algorithmix should propose an hardware option for these plugs, and make them available to all DAW users (not only Sequoia) to extend their client base and reduce the price tag.

Just my 2 cents,

Best,
Thomas

Thomas_Vingtrinier wrote: IMO I think Algorithmix should propose an hardware option for these plugs, and make them available to all DAW users (not only Sequoia) to extend their client base and reduce the price tag.

Please explain how adding hardware will reduce the pricetag!

Rich

If you want hardware, buy a box. The point of [especially native] software is that you don't need to buy some sort of DSP card for it. I own both a Powercore and a UAD-1 that I use for mixing, but I would be happy to own the Algorithmix plugs- despite the fact that I can only get a couple instances per session. If Algorithmix had to develop hardware for their plugs, it would raise the cost of them by a huge ammount. To me, native saves the cost of a Weiss box so it is well worth the bucks and you still can have multiple instances.

As of now, I've got other things to spend my money on so I'll survive with my Waves linear phase plugs, but I've used the Algorithmix and they stomp all over them. The comparison isn't even close. I just need to get things like mics, pres and things that my clients are willing to pay for.

--Ben

Please explain how adding hardware will reduce the pricetag!

By extending the client base. How many licences do you think they have already sold by now? In addition, I do not think the hardware would be very difficult to develop for such plugs: sounds like it is based on a brute force convolution algorithm to me (but I may well be wrong). My point here is not to bash the product (never!) but to say the technology is already there to allow a relatively easy implementation of hardware acceleration.

In comparison, TC and UAD stuff cost less than 1200 euros for their top range versions (including a good bunch of plugins and hardware). For both Algorithmix native EQ you need to shell out 1700 euros. I'd be surprised if Algorithmix do not find a ROI for this sort of money (= below 2000 euros) provided the fact that they sell it as standard DirectX or VST plugs to address more clients. But I'd be happy to be proven wrong..

Just an other guy's opinion,

Best,
Thomas

Just a quick chime in - we use Red on a Dell Precision 690 and while the machine handles single stereo instance fine it does have the 1 sec latency. While not an issue at that stage it would be great to not see the CPU go POW when it kicks in on high settings. I work at NVIDIA as well and it would be great to see them take advantage of CUDA acceleration so they could offload to the GPU and get 10/100 maybe faster X performance. Now THAT would be amazing since I think they make the best stuff on the planet right now

That's digging up an old thread!!!

I know - i actually didn't realize how old it was until after i hit enter. We just bought Red a short while back so enthusiasm got the best of me

Hey no worries. I love enthusiasm! Just like Flo!

I've been wondering if audio DAW and processing manufacturers would be using GPU acceleration any time soon! After all, even IE9 and Mozilla will be doing it soon, why not stuff that really NEEDS the high end boost from a GPU?