can anyone recommend either individual AD and DA converters that are of the big names (lynx, mytek, lucid, Lavry, genex, DAD, DCS, Prism, benchmark) that are of 192kHz and somewhat cheaper price range (not 3 grand a piece.) either that or mainly can someone tell me an A/D/A converter that is one of those brands and can do simultaneous A/D and D/A conversion?
ive checked out an RME AI2 as well, i ifavour mytek, but whatever just tell me what you think
Comments
With he Mytek STEREO converter you can start by buying ONLY the
With he Mytek STEREO converter you can start by buying ONLY the A/D unit and later, add the D/A unit when you have the cash/need for it. They are 1/2 U space so, they fill fit side by side.
I have Apogee PSX-100 SE and Lavry Blue and a friend brought his newly acquired Mytek A/D converter over to my studio. We recorded a custom made classical guitar, some alto ^ soprano sax, electric bass, ac. steel & electric guitar and some drums & percussion.
While there is subjective taste at play (in every comparison tests) I have to say that the Mytek (the CHEAPEST of the three!) offered a somewhat cleaner, more open sound than the Apogee PSX-100 SE (which was slightly mid-rich compared to the other two). SHaker patterns were well defined on the Mytek and the high hend is very clean and focused. The basses were more open on the Mytek than the Apogee and you could hear more space between notes/drum hits. Guitar chords sounded much more defined and you could hear every note int he chord clearly.
We were both very, very surprised considering the difference in costs among the three units.
While all three units are excellent (and while some tracks will require one sound over another) I think the Mytek is a KEEPER, even if you buy a Lavry later, or whatever else you may buy.
I have Apogee Rosetta 200. I'm not impressed much. My friend als
I have Apogee Rosetta 200. I'm not impressed much. My friend also has R 200. In comparison test we have found significant differences between both devices and channels too and for my opinion high level of dc offset.
I think the Lavry is the best way to go for the money.
Lynx and RME are higher rated than Motu.
yeah but whether you believe it or not, the 192kHz thing comes i
yeah but whether you believe it or not, the 192kHz thing comes into factor. i was thinking about using a mytek on the front end for A/D conversion the 192ADC. then for the D/A conversion use a lavry or DAD probably lavry. isn't it less common to use 192kHz during D/A conversion anyways, given that you believe it over what lavry himself says?
With very very good converters and mixing ITB I don't see the re
With very very good converters and mixing ITB I don't see the reason why to go with higher SR than 88.2. Even the 44.1 should be fine with good ADDA design. OTB could be somewhat different story but cost fortune. Imagine SSL and 48 channels of high class D/A!
There’s a lot about pro et contra on higher SR and one comes pretty obvious – using higher SR is less important with good adda design ($).
my 2c
liquidstudios wrote: yeah but whether you believe it or not, the
liquidstudios wrote: yeah but whether you believe it or not, the 192kHz thing comes into factor. i was thinking about using a mytek on the front end for A/D conversion the 192ADC. then for the D/A conversion use a lavry or DAD probably lavry. isn't it less common to use 192kHz during D/A conversion anyways, given that you believe it over what lavry himself says?
My advice - save your money.
Just 1 week ago, you hadn't even heard of these brands of converters and now you're talking about dropping between $5 and $10 K on them? (Yup - $10K for the DADs). If you hadn't heard of them, I'm fairly certain you haven't heard them. Personally, I don't like the DADs, but the difference is, I've heard them.
Get a MOTU and be happy.
J.
as far as pyschoacoustics are concerned, sure technically a lot
as far as pyschoacoustics are concerned, sure technically a lot of people will tell you that 20-20 is the only sensibilty, and solid state is better than tube, and digital is better than analog, neo is better than alnico. these classic methods of audio production are just plain cases of ingenuity and bright innovation.
so how many of you people think that i won't be able to sense much of a difference between built in converters on an M-AUDIO against a mytek or lavry?
In an A/B comparison, I think anyone could hear the difference.
In an A/B comparison, I think anyone could hear the difference. If you went out and bought the MOTU I doubt that you would be unsatisfied unless of course you've had experience with higher end converters in which case, yes, you would probably know the difference. If you're room is poorly treated, it won't matter how good your converters are, you won't be able to take advantage of them. I think that's what Scoobie is getting at. In other words, Pirellis won't make a Pinto go any faster.
liquidstudios wrote: as far as pyschoacoustics are concerned, su
liquidstudios wrote: as far as pyschoacoustics are concerned, sure technically a lot of people will tell you that 20-20 is the only sensibilty, and solid state is better than tube, and digital is better than analog, neo is better than alnico. these classic methods of audio production are just plain cases of ingenuity and bright innovation.
It doesn't have much to do with psychoacoustics - many of these statements are simply wrong and those that would make them are guilty of gross over-generalizations.
As is true with most everything in life, everything has its advantages and disadvantages. It all depends on how those work or don't work for you at the moment.
liquidstudios wrote:
so how many of you people think that i won't be able to sense much of a difference between built in converters on an M-AUDIO against a mytek or lavry?
Well, you know my answer to that. Unless you have a VERY well treated room, a very nice amp and monitors and something better than Hosa cables...no, you won't hear a difference. The funny thing is, neither will most if not all of your clients.
AD Conversion is just a tool in the whole mix. If everything else isn't quite perfect, the conversion won't make a difference. Many great records have been made on less than ideal converters (like those built into an ADAT machine or DAT recorder, etc.)
My litmus test for when I need to upgrade my converters comes when I get my mix EXACTLY where I want it, but I can't get that last 1% out of it and new converters would do the trick.
I haven't ever reached that point yet, so I'm not too worried.
J.
im not sure but cucco i think it was you who said "for the guy w
im not sure but cucco i think it was you who said "for the guy who is listening to my work on his hi fi audio system, i might as well produce the recording that will satisfy him" or was it someone else.
your statements are accurate, but you are basically telling me then that the average listeners with sound setups won't have a fuller more headroom kind of recording after going through a nice 192 converter?
either that or they would have to listen to record on album?
Well...yes, that was me that said that. And I firmly believe it
Well...yes, that was me that said that. And I firmly believe it. However, I record audiophile classical and jazz works. Also, I use some of the finest mics and microphones available.
For mid-level/amatuer to semi-pro studios who don't have my kind of budget, dropping $5k-$10k is simply a poor investment.
Besides, a good or bad converter shouldn't make the difference in headroom - unless of course that bad converter has some kind of serious design or build flaw.
J.
ok i understand the concept of it being a bad investment in that
ok i understand the concept of it being a bad investment in that sense. but are you inferring that the ONLY way you can hear and sense better conversion is with a well treated room, great monitors, etc.?
in other words, none of that good conversion will permeate to the average listeners audio?
you talk about getting a motu, well thats 1500 for the hd192. why would i honestly get that over a mytek. realiziation of more inputs,etc. do you think that the Mytek SRC 192 would be a good investment? just using the converters of the M-AUDIO but allowing for a 192khz conversion, and with the quality of mytek no less?
i mean tell me what you think for like a thousand dollar or little more price range, what would be a good way to go.
and yeah i suppose this is all based on the assumption that you believe in 192kHz sampling as being benefitial.
Hello again Liquidstudio............. I didn't want to get yo
Hello again Liquidstudio.............
I didn't want to get your panties in awade, I was just saying that i though
you could spend your money more wisely.
Hueseph and Cucco hit the nail on the head.........There is alot of factors involved in the equation of a good signal chain, I think you will be better off spending your money on the front end. Better pre's and mic's, just my 2cents.
Peace.........Scoobie
P.S. Some of the best recording I've ever did was, 16 / 44.1,
I'm sure the preformance had alot to do with it!
Cucco wrote: ... I use some of the finest mics and microphones a
Cucco wrote: ... I use some of the finest mics and microphones available.
For mid-level/amatuer to semi-pro studios who don't have my kind of budget, dropping $5k-$10k is simply a poor investment.
Cucco summed it up
when you have a genuine quality recording and monitoring chain
mic all the way to speaker
INCLUDING a room you can hear the diferences
then, and only then can you really hear the differences in some of these high class AD and DAs
just get a sensibly priced interface and then concerntrate on the stuff above
... you are going to change you coverter in a few years anyway.
You remind me of Walters. Anyway, consider that CDs are 16 bit 4
You remind me of Walters. Anyway, consider that CDs are 16 bit 44.1 kHz. Then there's MP3s. Does a 192k file translate well when downsampled to 44.1k? Maybe. If you're going to spend money on the Mytek, make sure it's worth your hard earned cash. That is, given the considerations, does your signal flow, room treatment and end product justify it? If so, go for it! If not, do the best with what you have.
liquidstudios wrote: so like i said, would a more sensible appro
liquidstudios wrote: so like i said, would a more sensible approach be to continue using the M-AUDIO converters which are standard 16/24, 44, 96 etc. and get a SRC 192 stereo mytek? that way you get a good quality brand, with the coveted 192 sampling. tell me what you think
I would get off the whole concept/idea of 192 kHz. Are you planning on releasing a lot of SACDs or DVD-As??
Stick with 44.1 or 88.2 unless you are. 192 = HUGE file sizes and difficult processing. Using the Mytek SRC will provide you little to no benefit. The Mytek SRC is better for down-converting than upconverting.
Any of the MOTU devices are great. I would say the 24I/O, for example, would be a great deal if you happen to have a lot of outboard gear. If not, and you need some pres, try something like the Mackie Onyx boards.
If you are planning on having some amazing pres, great external gear, excellent mics, etc., then get something like the Mytek or the Prism, or the DAD, etc. However, I would get all of the other stuff first.
If I weren't recording orchestras and were only recording traditional studio fare, I would be MORE than satisfied with any of the MOTU gear or RME gear, etc.
J.
>>the coveted 192 sampling. tell me what you think There is not
>>the coveted 192 sampling. tell me what you think<<
There is nothing 'coveted' about 192khz sampling. Those who use it have extremely high budgets (out of reach of most people) which allow them to have the entire recording, editing and mixing chain at the frequency.
From your posts that I have read so far it seems you are just starting out. I would therefore, suggest you put a budget together and then, buy accordingly. No need to ovre-do it at this juncture. If you have (or are planning to have) a DAW you could start with a MOTU 2408 MKII (yes the older one) and that would be plenty for the moment. Spend more on a good pre amp and/or compressor, etc...
As you gain more experience (and your client list grows) you'll know what to buy to upgrade your studio.
At this stage, we can go on forever talking about gear...but, it would be pointless, from a practical POV.
i have an m-audio projectmix, akg 414, trident s20, la-610, etc.
i have an m-audio projectmix, akg 414, trident s20, la-610, etc. i would tend to say thats a pretty good line of signal for starters.
im just starting with the general assumption that an interfaces internal preamps and converters are going to be about the same in quality from one another.
yet you tell me to focus on getting the preamps, whilst not the conversion. yeah so i have some pretty good preamps. if i didn't already make that somehow clear enough.
and even then that is not to say that i am not going to extend my reach of pre's and different microphones.
the reason i am asking help on seeking proper conversion, is because i have been looking deeply into the otari mx-5050 for recording to analog before i go to digital. that coupled with the analog outboard gear i posess is a valid reason for me to at least question high quality outboard conversion.
when i say high quality, i mean lavry and mytek essentially. i'm not talking about the insanely high priced stuff. if i wasn't clear on that either.
again, i realize the importance monitors, and a well tempered room can play on all this. just give me some recommendations, as to what would be the next step, because these MOTU recommendations are interfaces, and nonetheless i am going to assume are about the same quality as that of my current M-AUDIO project mix. if you think what i have in conversion, which i've previously stated is the by all and end all, then please let me know.
obviously i want to spend money on things that will make a difference. i realize the limitations of CD, so it seems to me you guys are really on the lavry side of things, if i could possibly sum it up in that respect. you're saying why bother with this, if this is good enough, you sample to a cd at such and such frequencies anyways so its overkill and makes no difference. i've asked numerous times but must be ceasing to understand the valuability of 192kHz sampling. i've made this possible misunderstanding from deducing that the primary absence that i might have, in respects to a hi fidelity converter is the lack of a high frequency sampling rate. i realize design definently matters, and a poor design is no constitution for state of the art components. but i've thought that the brands we are talking about namely Mytek and Lavry are great designs, at somewhat attainable prices.
MAudio and MOTU are decent designs with basic conversion. so just tell me anything else that you might think.
What is lacking in what you have now? With the gear that you lis
What is lacking in what you have now? With the gear that you listed, you should be able to produce some decent recordings. Exceptional recordings even. Certainly for any rock oriented music. Even for Classical or Jazz for that matter. I've heard some pretty amazing things done on a simple mbox2 setup. What "absence" is there? You can't make your recordings sound better by throwing money at them.
Well, the gear you have is fine. However, it appears that you m
Well, the gear you have is fine. However, it appears that you may be putting all of your eggs in one basket. One quality piece in each category ain't enough...perhaps if you had 4 414s, an M50, C12, U67, some schoeps and dpa with some Neve, amek, summit, millennia pres, etc. then I might suggest a better converter. I still stand by my statement that a standard MOTU or something will be fine. (btw...the 24i/o has no pres, it's strictly 24 ins and outs.)
I'm not trying to say that it's all about the gear - it isn't. But, until your gear and your skills and your room are in top form, you will get no benefit from a better converter.
j
I would like to help here if I could, but when it comes down to
I would like to help here if I could, but when it comes down to "is x better than y" I can't intelligently answer that question and neither can anyone else here because there are so many other factors involved.
The sampling rate debate is just like the debate between evolution vs "intelligent design". Some people believe one thing, other people believe something else. There are facts out there, and you should read them and make your own decision.
People have given their opinions and advice and it seems like you've made your decision on either a Lavry or Mytek. Everyone has said that they are both good devices, so just pick a model that has the features that you want and is at a price you can afford and be done with it. Then after using it, come back here and let us know what your thoughts are on how it performs.
I would like to help here if I could, but when it comes down to
I would like to help here if I could, but when it comes down to "is x better than y" I can't intelligently answer that question and neither can anyone else here because there are so many other factors involved.
The sampling rate debate is just like the debate between evolution vs "intelligent design". Some people believe one thing, other people believe something else. There are facts out there, and you should read them and make your own decision.
People have given their opinions and advice and it seems like you've made your decision on either a Lavry or Mytek. Everyone has said that they are both good devices, so just pick a model that has the features that you want and is at a price you can afford and be done with it. Then after using it, come back here and let us know what your thoughts are on how it performs.
its only far cheaper if you desire a 16 or 24 track, and that ba
its only far cheaper if you desire a 16 or 24 track, and that basically tells that you don't record in that process too often.
but nonetheless im only asking as wondering if your built-in conversion was sufficient. more than sufficient, noticably good.
and obviously you must think so.
well, i don't doubt the validity of the opinion that nice outboard A/D conversion is what you guys say it is. but any of you or anyone else care to give further elaboration on your beliefs concerning conversion?
Personally, in a perfect world where I am incredibly rich and ha
Personally, in a perfect world where I am incredibly rich and have nothing but time, I would love to record straight to tape with musicians that play from beginning to end and are willing to do it over again if it's not quite right. Keep it on tape until the mix. And, mix it right before it goes to master. Less conversion is better. I'd rather keep a bit of noise and maintain the analog "warmth" than dump it all to individual digital files, then end up editing the tone that I worked so hard at out of the mix. That's just me and part of it is definitely that I'm lazy. The other part is the likelyhood that I will ever see another reel to reel in my lifetime are close to zero if not zero.
liquidstudios wrote: its only far cheaper if you desire a 16 or
liquidstudios wrote: its only far cheaper if you desire a 16 or 24 track,
Why would I want to record to 2 track? That makes no sense. 2 Track is intended for bounce down, not tracking.
liquidstudios wrote:
but nonetheless im only asking as wondering if your built-in conversion was sufficient. more than sufficient, noticably good.
Built-in conversion?????? In the tape deck???? Conversion from what? Analog to Analog conversion? There is no built-in conversion a 24 track tape deck.
liquidstudios wrote:
and that basically tells that you don't record in that process too often.
Damn straight. VERY rarely do customers actually ask for that.
J.
damnit cucco i thought we already got into this over in the reel
damnit cucco i thought we already got into this over in the reel to reel topic. hueseph stated that you can use a 2 track for tracking, it's kind of the same concept where a lot of interfaces designed for the project studio only use 8 tracks. i wonder why.
primarily in the studio enviroment are they used for mastering, yea. but as hueseph said, if its good enough for mastering its good enough for tracking.
when i was referring to built in conversion i was talking about that you find on the MOTU's you keep ranting about. or the M-AUDIO, or everything for that matter that is a digital recorder. or most everything.
Hello liquidstudio....... From what i've been checking into
Hello liquidstudio.......
From what i've been checking into is the Lynx offerings. Im's using RME products and like them , but i'm using what i can afford at the time.
I have some friends that swear by Lynx. I know there is a hell of a lot better , but like you said........3 grand a piece. You can get into some big money with converters.
Have fun shopping.....
Peace.....Scoobie