LD condensers are preferred by most for Vocals but Dynamics are widely used. The key is what is best for the particular vocalist your working with. You certainly need a good preamp though. I've heaqrd good and bad vocal tracks done with dynamics. The good tracks where all done on preamps costing usually no less than $1000 and most twice that. The SM57s and 58s have been used on many gold and platinum albums. Paul Rogers used to use an SM57 standing right behind the engineer in the control room with the monitors blaring. When using non-traditional methods, the engineer just has to be able to recognize what's usable and what's not. Many popular Rap and Hip Hop artist are being recorded with the EV RE20. I've also talked to a few people who use the Sennheiser MD421 for RAP and Heavy Metal vox. Just get yourself a Sebatron, Great River, Avalon, Manley, Langevin ect... and experiment. Compressors are a part of the chain that makes a great deal of difference as well.

On these forums, dynamic mics generally get dissed for vocals because you got someone running dynamics through lower cost mic preamps. I've used a lot of mic pres and you got to get up to the FMR RNP before you get a reliable mic pre for dynamics. My favorite mic pre for dynamics is the A Designs MP-2. A better mic pre breathes life into dynamic mics. It's uncanny what difference a great mic pre can make with a dynamic.

So, if you're using inexpensive mics pres, then a reasonably priced condenser such as the Audio-Technica AT3035 would probably be the best bang for the buck for vocals.

If you are willing to upgrade to one or more quality mic preamps, then you'll find yourself getting some great sounds out of dynamics.

Steve
http://www.mojopie.com

Thanks guys...

Actually, I am in the market for a preamp, and I was just directed to Kurt Foster's mp3s in another thread... I could not believe how much difference an Amek / Neve system 9098 made over a Studio Projects VTB 1!! I was considering purchasing either the latter or the RNP... but I think now I might see what strings I can pull to get a higher level preamp (I might just stick with the RNP though)...

either way, this is great information.. thanks!

The RNP is pretty much the same approach as the VTB1 or a Mackie Pre in terms of design philosophy. They just charge a lot more for it. It may be executed in a better way but I really can't say as I have never had a chance to see or listen to one. The RNP runs on a low voltage, DC, wall wart power supply and in my p.o.v. this is an issue. What I can say about the RNP is it absolutely is not of the same quality as say a Millennia, 9098, JLM TMP8, Sebatron VMP, API or Great River MP2NV / Neve clone type pre.

You may be perfectly happy with the RNP and you may not, I can't say what you will be satisfied with. . What is for sure, is if you are very serious about recording, it will not be the last mic pre purchase you make. While it may be on the high end of the menu at Burger King, it's still fast food in terms of recording gear.

I'm not flaming the RNP, I am sure it is useful to a lot of people but it is not a product I heartily recommend.

Kurt, have you tried the RNP yet, or are you still bashing a product you haven't tried?

While it may be on the high end of the menu at Burger King, it's still fast food in terms of recording gear.

I'm not flaming the RNP, I am sure it is useful to a lot of people but it is not a product I heartily recommend.
Kurt, you may not be flaming it, but you are falme broiling it

Brad and reignman,
I notice that you both have only 5 or 6 posts here. Seems you have been waiting for a response from me just to jump on it..

I posted an opinion on the topic. The original question sited my mp3s I posted.. so I felt I should respond..

Let's keep the thread on topic and not make it about my opinion. You don't like what I said, then disagree. But if you want to try to hijack the thread by attacking me and turn this into a flame war, your posts will not stand. Consider this a moderator warning. Opinions are fine. Facts are fine. personal attacks are not fine and will be responded to like this ...

Originally posted by Kurt Foster:
The RNP is pretty much the same approach as the VTB1 or a Mackie Pre in terms of design philosophy.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. I don't even think that the VTB1 and the Mackie have the same design philosophy, so I'm not sure where the RNP fits in.

The RNP runs on a low voltage, DC, wall wart power supply and in my p.o.v. this is an issue.

So does the Grace 101, and you can't deny that's a really nice pre (more expensive than the RNP though). Certainly not a Mackie or a VTB1.

What I can say about the RNP is it absolutely is not of the same quality as say a Millennia, 9098, JLM TMP8, Sebatron VMP, API or Great River MP2NV / Neve clone type pre.

Maybe, but I don't think he's looking to spend that kind of cash. Can you think of a good, clean two-channel mic pre in the $450 range that comes near an RNP in performance? There doesn't seem to be a lot of competition until you get into much higher price echelons.

What is for sure, is if you are very serious about recording, it will not be the last mic pre purchase you make.

If you're very serious about recording, no mic pre will be the last mic pre you ever purchase. They're all different. That's we we need lots of them!

from Steve:

A better mic pre breathes life into dynamic mics. It's uncanny what difference a great mic pre can make with a dynamic.

Interesting ! Does this apply in general or specifically for vocals & dynamics ?

Thanks,

Peter

Originally posted by Kurt Foster:
I notice that you both have only 5 or 6 posts here. Seems you have been waiting for a response from me just to jump on it..

Sorry Kurt, I saw this after I posted my response. I'm new here, but I hope you don't think I'm trying to jump on you. I was discussing this with the guy that asked the question on that other thread before you posted your response, so I was just following up. No personal attack was intended.

To address a point that was made in the other thread though, I really think that someone getting their first good pre would be better off getting something that doesn't have as much of a sonic signature. If you're using it for everything, you don't necessarily want to be stuck with "warmth" and "color" on every track. There are plenty of other ways to get warmth and color from a neutral pre (choice of source, mic selection, compression, etc.). There is no way to get "neutral" from a colored pre though.

I am very interested to see what the RNP can do actually... sometimes people love the quasi-cheaper things because that's what they can afford (bang for buck... or as Kurt said, "high end ... fast food"), and sometimes good things don't have to be expensive... hard to say, but I thank all of you for your comments...

Basically, I am not expert, but I am not satisfied with my current sound either... I know I don't have enough money to be truly satisfied, but...

On one hand, there is the "weakest link" philosophy... where whatever is the "weakest link" is what needs to be fixed... so a reasonably priced mic, preamp, cables, etc. will not show their fullest potential through a SB Live! soundcard...

On the other hand, spending over $400 for 4 high end monster cables might be better spent towards a mic preamp, and buying (or making) $20-$30 cables... even if the cables are the weaker link (well, not a good example, but you know what I mean)...

At any rate, concerning me, I don't have a lot of money to throw around (a thousand or a little more).. but I'm assuming a mic preamp upgrade would show more results than other upgrades? And at that, a more trasparent preamp would get more jobs done than a colored one?

Sorry to cause so much trouble, I just like to learn and see others opinions...

Originally posted by Kurt Foster:
The RNP is pretty much the same approach as the VTB1 or a Mackie Pre in terms of design philosophy ....

I'm not sure what you mean by that. I don't even think that the VTB1 and the Mackie have the same design philosophy, so I'm not sure where the RNP fits in.

I mean they are inexpensive, non discreet, large scale integrated surface mount designs powered by pretty much inadequate power supplies. Difficult at best to service. Cheap to build and intentionally aimed at a segment of the market that doesn’t know any better. You don’t get it, do you?

Originally posted by Kurt Foster:

The RNP runs on a low voltage, DC, wall wart power supply and in my p.o.v. this is an issue.

So does the Grace 101, and you can't deny that's a really nice pre (more expensive than the RNP though). Certainly not a Mackie or a VTB1.

Well, I have not heard the Grace 101 either .. but I have my doubts about it too.. once again, the power supply is an issue to me and people I know and respect, have heard it and don’t seem to care much for it either. The Grace 201, uses an internal toridal power supply but sells for $650 more than two 101's. ($1850) This is because high quality internal power supplies ar far more expensive to build.

Maybe, but I don't think he's looking to spend that kind of cash. Can you think of a good, clean two-channel mic pre in the $450 range that comes near an RNP in performance? There doesn't seem to be a lot of competition until you get into much higher price echelons.

No I can’t. But that doesn’t mean I am going to recommend something just because it is inexpensive. Good stuff costs what is costs.. I have no control over that. At a price per channel breakdown, the JLM TMP 8 and the Sebatrons are very competitive but there is an initial cost for the good power supply. Once that is paid for, adding channels is the easy part. Sebatron could sell the vmp 2000 for 500 bucks and probably make a lot more profit if he used a wall wart power supply, but he doesn’t do that, does he? There’s a reason for that.

If you're very serious about recording, no mic pre will be the last mic pre you ever purchase. They're all different. That's we need lots of them!

I have 16 channels of great class A pres.. I don’t think I will be purchasing any more. No need to. What I have works fine and if someone wants some other sound, I will rent or they can bring something in.

[ November 10, 2003, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: Kurt Foster ]

Hey, Kurt, chill man. We're talking mike pres here, not the War in Iraq. Well, the other thread that linked to this one was talking mike pres anyway. I guess we're talking dynamic mikes here. Now I'm confused. :)

Death addR,
You mentioned you really liked the 9098 sample. I was simply saying that the RNP is not the same thing as the 9098. The system 9098 (which was what you listened to) sells for over $2000 for a single channel, while the RNP is less than $250 per. You really can't expect the same kind of performance from the RNP, even though the marketing hype would lead you to believe you could. You have to remember, especially in the lower end equipment, the manufacturers use all kinds of hyperboly in their marketing campaigns. Catch phrases like "transparent", "punchy" "warm" and "sheen" regularly are used but really mean nothing.

Perhaps the RNP is just what you want. Please let us all know if this turns out to be the case. It seems as if it is the direction you want to go in..

Yeah, they both just seemed to turn into "what's the best preamp" threads, which is a secondary intention of the other thread, but not a real intention of this one... I just thought it was kind of silly to post one thing on the other, just to post a different version of the same message here a few minutes later...

sorry about the confusion, and my part in any of it...

Oh, and while I'm typing... I'm looking at that Sebatron with an interested eye now... I want to get at least a single channel compressor, since software compressors are cutting it in some cases (vocals especially)... so I dunno if I should look elsewhere than the RNC if I don't go with the RNP...

I don't want to rule out the RNP by any means, but I dunno... maybe I can find somewhere or someone in town with it, or some clips somewhere...

at any rate, I'm confused too... let's call a truce and and have ice cream?

[edit] Kurt, you do make a good point, and I'll try to post some clips if I do go with a RNP... but I don't know what will or won't work for me... also, I don't know if I'll get the results I want with my KSM32 through any preamp... I didn't mean to upset anyone personally if I have, but I do want to say that I'd be the first to tell anyone there is a lot I don't know in this field.. this is why I ask...

and to reply to the below message... THANKS![edit]

Death addR,
Sebatron is coming out with a new product, the "Thorax"... which is a mic pre / di / eq and comprssor in one box.. I am not sure what it is selling for but you can go thje the Sebatron forum and ask him.. let him know I sent you over..

Hello Death addeR

For my vocals I have been experimenting with all the mics in my large collection (one other mic, the MXL V67 condenser- not a Ferrari as far as mics go), and found my SM-57 dynamic to sound great for my voice. Thicker sounding and and syrupy sweet (?!), and great for my voice, it totally helps me. I'm pretty thrilled to have stumbled across this.

My condenser is too thin and too "real" for my voice. Not sure if its the nature of the dynamic mic compared to nature of a condenser mic. Or is it uniquely the SM57.. don't know.

FYI-
Other suggestions I've gotten as far as upgrading, since I liked the SM-57 so much were:

Electro Voice RE-20
Shure SM-7
Beyer M88

The Beyer seemed to have the most adoring fans.
Good Luck

Originally posted by nikko:

To address a point that was made in the other thread though, I really think that someone getting their first good pre would be better off getting something that doesn't have as much of a sonic signature. If you're using it for everything, you don't necessarily want to be stuck with "warmth" and "color" on every track. There are plenty of other ways to get warmth and color from a neutral pre (choice of source, mic selection, compression, etc.). There is no way to get "neutral" from a colored pre though.

Nikko,
Cool! I personally don't like uncolored pres.. and you can't get color from a neutral pre either..

Actually both the JLM TMP 8 and the Sebatron vmp's are capable of providing relativly un colored sound at lower drive levels with the color and attitude increasing as the pres are driven harder. I like this a lot.

But I will also comment that using pres with color and attitude across all tracks can be a very good thing. Many records are made with nothing but Neve or API pres and they both are known as having distintive sonic signatures. I think uncolored neutral pres like the ones found in Neotek and Mackie consoles are ugly sounding, especially for pop, rock, country or R&B recordings. If I wanted to do a classical or orchestral recording, I might want a bunch of neutral pres.

(Dead Link Removed)

My go to mic back at the old 'Pro' studio was the SM7...if you didnt sound good on this thing then someone else should sing the track.

Condensers are like a huge bowl of goldfish...they're all just a little different,some more different than others, but its hard to pick out a 'best'...

As far as the 'Pre-Amp Controversy' goes,theres a lot of them too......too many.....If you're recording to DAW then you probably need a couple.If you're doing 16 tracks at once and recording to DAW you definately need several with a couple of different aspects such as warmth,accuracy,speed of response,etc etc.This is so you can use them for DIFFERENT PURPOSES.Isnt that a novel idea.SO.....those preamps that have a clean overall sound,wall-wart or not will have their place in the overall scheme of a recording.Those that have other sound aspects will have their place in the overall recording.Anything that is touted in literature as THE BEST...isnt.And I have found it really difficult to get a good sound out of an advertisement,a suggestion online, or a review.It usually takes a LISTEN for me to like or dislike something, but thats just me.I could care less about the electronic architecture of something if it has the ability to be used in some situation I personally have use for it in, and deliver a suitable performance.One of my band partners is quite the electronic genius kinda guy...and I've seen and heard things hes built that shouldnt even lite up the pilot light but sound like God was soldering in the components.

As for recording with a console,If you can make it work cleanly and with enough gain to have usable tracks, then by all means dont worry too much about a bunch of 'other' preamps.One or two will do for 'feature' instruments and vocals.I use a Soundcraft Ghost,and while its not a Mighty MCI,or an API,or a NEVE,or a Trident, it is very usable.One real good reason its usable for me is lots of practice. And at the end of the day its still working..And at about $135.00 a channel for decent pres its a bargain.And thats with a real good EQ and a really nice routing matrix.

And AS I'm Really on a RANT today, those of you who are asking a lot of questions about preamps had better be sure your skills with mic placements are good enough to realize the potentials available with higher end gear.Trying to Buy a better sound is a very expensive way to be dissappointed IMNSHO.

Alanfc:

Wow... After learning that dynamic mics can be used to record vocals, I was going to try that route anyway... but after you said your condenser is too "thin" and "real," I immediately picked up my shure sm-57 and went at it for a little bit... for the past few years, my personal vocals have always sounded real, thin, etc. in a bad way... although this change didn't completely fix the problem, I was very happy with the results... who knew a cheaper sm57 could out-do a much more expensive KSM32 (at least in this task)... there were still problems, but this was a lot closer to what I want with my voice... so thanks a lot for those words!

I also like the SM 7a for vocals. Also of use is the Senheiser 421 and 441s..

I have a Senheiser 421, I'll have to try that!

I'm starting to think maybe I should sell my KSM32 and put the money towards two small diaphragm condensers or the preamp deal if needed... I mostly only use that mic for acoustic guitar and vocals, and probably not so much vocals after this... :)

[edit] disregard that second comment for now... I want to see how whatever preamp I end up getting changes things first.. Thanks everyone, this has truly been an englightening day [/edit]

who knew a cheaper sm57 could out-do a much more expensive KSM32

One of the great things about the good old cheap SM57 is that you can get different tone out of it by using different preamps. Sometimes it is as vast a difference as night and day.

I've used a MD421 many times for vocals. The SM57/SM58, MD421 all work well with cheap mic pres. Even those that are built into cassette 4-track recorders can get you get very good results. A lot of the shrill, thin lifeless sound using a condenser mic is the result of a mis match between mic and preamp. Consenser mics really need a GREAT preamp to get the most out of them.

Originally posted by Peter Vermeeren:
from Steve:

A better mic pre breathes life into dynamic mics. It's uncanny what difference a great mic pre can make with a dynamic.

Interesting ! Does this apply in general or specifically for vocals & dynamics ?

Thanks,

Peter

A great mic pre will always give you a better signal. However, the impact on particular mics seems to be much bigger with dynamics.

Steve
http://www.mojopie.com

Hi all I'm new here, hope I don't step on anyone's toes. Death AddeR try looking on
ebay for a Grace 101 truly an excellent mic
pre and I just picked one up for $500 in
excellent shape. My signal path for vocals is typically as follows Studio Projects C1-Grace 101-Apogee Rosetta-vs2480. I might substitute
a different mic but the rest pretty much remains
the same.
Hope this helps.

klem

I've used the VTB1, the Mackies, Behringers, Audio Buddy...

As well as the Grace 101 and the FMR RNP, which I own. I've never paid attention whether the Mackies or Behringer used a wall wart but I'll assume they do. Anyhow, the Grace 101 and the FMR RNP are some nice preamps. The others are "just OK." I sent back my VTB1 for an RNP. I haven't plugged my Audio Buddy in once since the RNP arrived. However, I'm still using the RNP and the 101 alongside preamps costing a lot more $$ and never thought about selling either or putting them on the shelf.

Steve
http://www.mojopie.com

Originally posted by ozraves:
I've used the VTB1, the Mackies, Behringers, Audio Buddy... ....As well as the Grace 101 and the FMR RNP, which I own. I've never paid attention whether the Mackies or Behringer used a wall wart but I'll assume they do.

Steve,
No, there mixers use IEC line cords and have internal (but inadequate) power supplies.. I can’t say what the Behringer stand alone pres use but I too will assume it is a wall wart.

Originally posted by ozraves:
[QB
However, I'm still using the RNP and the 101 alongside preamps costing a lot more $$ and never thought about selling either or putting them on the shelf. [/QB]

Steve,

The kinds of pres I currently use are the Millennia STT-1, JML TMP8, Sebatron vmp 4000e, Neve Amek 9098s. I also have extensive experience with API and MCI console pres. I am very curious which pres are you using and making these RNP comparisons to? How about recording some comparisons using a U87 and posting them for us?

This is the problem I am having regarding the RNP. I have never even heard a sample of the RNP or a song recorded using it that I am aware of. I can’t find one in any of the locals stores in my area. I never saw one in any of the stores when I lived in the SF Bay area. There are several people who post here, repeatedly “talking up” the RNP ... but as far as I can tell, none of them have had any experience using what I would call “real mic pres”, so I have to question their frame of reference, or they are “friends” of the company, or they sell FMR products. It seems the RNP is only distributed / sold by a few select dealers in the US and it is all but impossible to hear one without purchasing it.

That coupled with the marketing hype, that it is as good as pres 4 times the price (hard to swallow) ... and my inability to get one to post comparisons and for review from FMR, only serves to fuel my suspicion. I do not buy it that FMR is so back ordered that one unit would make a difference.

As far as the power supply issues, I am not alone in my thinking on this issue. Just ask any of the designers at DIY why they don’t use 8 to 15 volt, DC wall wart power supplies and what the issues are with a device that will run on those low DC voltages with that much of a tolerance ... Ask Sebatron, ask Joe Malone, ask Dan Kennedy.. not to slam the RNP, because out of courtesy to their fellow manufacturer, they won’t do that but ask them about the specific issues.. Ask Kev and Cjenrick ... I think they will explain it better that I ever could.

Kurt--

Why don't you email Michael Grace and ask him about the wall wart issue? He'd probably respond as he replied when I asked him a similar question. If you've used a Grace 101, then you'd know that you can make a very good mic pre with a wall wart.

As for mic pres, right now, I've got a Millennia TD-1, an A Designs MP-2, a Great River MP-2NV and a Sebatron vmp-2000e here along with the Grace 101 and FMR RNP. I'm not going to say the RNP is my favorite. However, I like it for mic'ing acoustic guitars better than anything else I've used. Larry Seyer, who has won more Grammys than I'll ever get to touch, bought 24 RNPs he liked them so much. I'm quite happy with one RNP and don't plan on buying any others.

I used to have a link up at our review of the RNP of a song tracked completely through the RNP. It was impressive even though I'd never bother to track an entire song through one mic pre myself anymore. For some reason, the songwriter killed the link. He is selling the song on his CD. I believe the song was "Miles Away." Here's his website: http://www.chriscampbellonline.com

Steve
http://www.mojopie.com

Steve:
Since you have three of the pres that are being debated here - the Grace 101, RNP, and VMP-2000e - could you post an a/b/c comparission? ... something small? ... if you're busy or unable, that is completely understandable! :) ... but, doesn't hurt to ask?

Kurt, in that "other post" you state this:

I think the Sebatron vmp 2000, which goes for about $750 street, is a much better value for a great mic pre.

Help a brother out here...where are you seeing this price? I am seeing them on EBay going for $925 new (this is *without* the VU meters).

Thanks!

Originally posted by Death addeR:
Steve:
Since you have three of the pres that are being debated here - the Grace 101, RNP, and VMP-2000e - could you post an a/b/c comparission? ... something small? ... if you're busy or unable, that is completely understandable! :) ... but, doesn't hurt to ask?

I'm not a fan of samples as I've yet to put a recording of samples together but I'll post something. It'd need to be one channel as the Grace is only one channel. I'll get out a mic this week and record me singing a short meaningless line.

Good news. I got a reply from Chris Campbell. He's going to upload his song again where he used the RNP so I can link to it from our RNP review at Mojo Pie. He says it'll be up later today.

Steve
http://www.mojopie.com

Thanks Steve!

Originally posted by brad dowd:
Kurt, have you tried the RNP yet, or are you still bashing a product you haven't tried?

I haven't tried the RNP yet, and I can easily ditti what Kurt said about it in his comments just above. You actually do not need to listen to a mic pre and still be able to make faitly accurate assesment of it compared to the also above mentioned mic pre's based soley on the tried and true fact of the importance of the power supply in the design. It is just plain physics that allow for this. ANY mic pre with a wall wart style power supply is not gong to be able to have the raw horse power necessary to get it over the hump (so to speak) in order to be as open and punchy (large dynamic range) as a neve/api/etc.

Originally posted by nikko:
If you're very serious about recording, no mic pre will be the last mic pre you ever purchase. They're all different. That's we we need lots of them!

tell that to the guys that recorded all of the great classic albums, alnost always on one board with one brand of pre.
This Shelly Yakusism of infinete multiple pre's&other outboard gear; each minute picked per source is academically viable, but also has little effect on the song, is is dubiouslly relevant a year later listening to the mix. At that point you won't even listen to it if the song sucked.

W.r.t. the grace 101, I'm truly stunned why they chose a 6 V DC supply. It can't be otherwise than that they have a DC/DC converter inside. Without much own hands-on experience, I'd say it would be more hassle to have a DC/DC converter inside than to use say the rane approach: a healthy AC-signal and internal rectifying & doubling & smoothing...

Even more so surprised by all this since in a tech-document about the design of their other modes they say they're more after avoiding RF-interference :

The Chassis
A high performance electronic device must be
packaged to provide mechanical stability and protection
from radiated interference. Grace Design preamplifiers
are housed in Aluminum chassis for maximum
protection from RF interference. While steel chassis
construction provides better shielding at power line
frequencies (50-60Hz), we feel it is more important to
protect the low level circuitry from high frequency
interference. 60Hz hum is a nuisance but it can be
easily detected and eliminated, while RF interference
can manifest itself as subtle loss of detail or an increase
in distortion and noise which might not be noticed until
after critical tracks are recorded.

This feels all quite counter intuitive to me. But still looks like delibrate choices.

Peter

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Peter Vermeeren:
from Steve:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A better mic pre breathes life into dynamic mics. It's uncanny what difference a great mic pre can make with a dynamic.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Interesting ! Does this apply in general or specifically for vocals & dynamics ?

Thanks,

Peter
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A great mic pre will always give you a better signal. However, the impact on particular mics seems to be much bigger with dynamics.

That's good info. Makes me to refocus on mic-pre's for the dynamics I have first - instead of going for condenser mics now.

thanks,

Peter

OK, if you'll go to Harvey Gerst's [="http://www.mojopie.com/rnp.html"]review of the FMR RNP[/]="http://www.mojopie…"]review of the FMR RNP[/]. Then, you'll find the link at the bottom of the page the song, "Miles Away," and the artist's website. The song was tracked through an FMR RNP.

If you'll go to [[url=http://="http://www.mojopie…"]my review of the Grace 101[/]="http://www.mojopie…"]my review of the Grace 101[/] then you'll find a song by Grupo Rival at the bottom of the page tracked through a Grace 101.

Please note the recording artists have given me permission to link to their songs from these reviews so please get permission before linking to them elsewhere. I just got these back online today and want to keep them there since they are spot on with my experiences with each preamp.

Steve
http://www.mojopie.com

Thanks Recorder Man and Peter !!!

RM speaks from major label experience and Peter is a member of the Tech and DIY group. Both have reinforced my feelings regarding the power supply issues. There is still only one way to get "there" from here and that is, Class A, with adequate power supplies. I am not technically minded and all I can do to draw these conclusions is to use my ears and rely on people with the knowledge to steer me in the right direction. If I am suffering from "rectal cranial inversions" I would hope that someone in the "know" would be kind enough to straighten me out.

Thanks also to Steve for the posting of the tune recorded with the RNP. I will go over to Mojo Pie (a great site, check it out everyone!) and listen to it.

BTW, Steve, try a U87 aimed at the twelfth fret / neck joint, through the Sebatron for acoustic guitar. I doubt that you will ever go back to the RNP for that application.

The RNP is reported to be an uncolored / “photo realistic type” of mic pre. The Mackie pres are the same thing. This is the least expensive type of pre to build because you don’t need transformers and discreet parts. OP AMPs are perfect for this kind of application. On paper, they look great ... but in use, uck! While some may think this is a great attribute, IMO, for most pop recordings, it isn't. For classical, yes this is a good thing but how many of us are recording a symphony orchestra? Or even classical quartet or guitar?

Well, I've heard stuff done with both the RNP and with the Grace and I can attest to the fact that both pre's can provide you with excellent results, wall-wart or not. And that's the important thing, isn't it? If the original poster had $3,000 to spend on a pre, we could all suggest units that he would probably prefer over either the RNP or the Grace. If he's got $450 to spend, he should get the best he can afford and get down to business (instead of worrying that he doesn't have a Neve or a Great River).