I am considering moving from 2" to one of the new hard disk 24-track recording systems and am asking for anyone's opinions of the relative merits of the units mentioned above. I don't really understand the operational differences between the two, and am of course interested in sound quality, particularly as I will be using the unit's A/D/A converters a substantial amount.
(Specifically I would track anything more than 2-4 inputs using the recorder's A/D, and play back most projects using the recorder's D/A so as to have access to analog processing during mixdown. My console right now is an 02R with upgrade to a DMX100 or some unknown newer equivalent planned in the next couple of years.)
I need a box that is fully functional for tracking, lockup and editing, and very good sound quality throughout.
I have searched for a thread on this topic- you'd think there'd be one, but I can't find one. However, I have to say that the server for this board is so slow I didn't search as deeply as I otherwise might have. If there's a useful thread somewhere, I certainly would apprciate a reference to it.
Thanks in advance...
And, of course, some useful additional information for you:
:) :o ;) :mad:
[ May 27, 2001: Message edited by: John Etnier ]
Comments
Warning, kinda long post. Of course this is all very subjective
Warning, kinda long post.
Of course this is all very subjective and I don't want to anyone to base their decision on my evaluations. Determine what's important to you and then listen to these units yourself.
RIght off I want to state that I think I would have gone RADAR if I could have afforded it and if I'd had access to one to hear it, I might have decided to wait.
In terms of priority, the money difference will be better spent on adding a pair of comps and a top notch preamp.
In March when I bought, Alesis HD24 was still unavailable. This narrowed it down to Mackie/TASCAM.
I analyzed how I work, and prioritized the functions I really wanted as:
My experience to date with the Mackie is that I've never had a failure of any kind which resulted in a lost take. I've punched multiple tracks in/out without a problem, but the famous "yeah, but can you punch 24 tracks in at once" is not a thing I've ever felt the need to do. (Note: that's been a controversial topic in religious debates of the relative merits of these systems - I guess it's important to certain types of recording). I've never seen a failure recording 24 tracks at a time or seen one reported either. That's just me tho.
The 24 dig/analog I/O simultaneously is something I didn't need to consider since I mix analog.
I also feel the the build quality is plenty rugged. I found no stripped screws on my unit.
I hope this is objective, I don't feel like I'm being defensive. I'm just trying to document why I chose the way I did.
To help you research, The tascam offical support BBS is linked from http://www.tascam.com and the RADAR board is at http://www.recordingtheworld.com
The most active Mackie group is at groups.yahoo.com lurk there and see what the discussions reveal.
Thanks very much for this very informative post. I gotta say, fr
Thanks very much for this very informative post. I gotta say, from what little I've learned so far, it looks like RADAR to me. Sigh...
My experience to date with the Mackie is that I've never had a failure of any kind which resulted in a lost take. I've punched multiple tracks in/out without a problem, but the famous "yeah, but can you punch 24 tracks in at once" is not a thing I've ever felt the need to do. I've never seen a failure recording 24 tracks at a time or seen one reported either.
Well, if I'm tracking a band and they want a full-band punch, that could easily take 14-16 tracks. Can that be done? Can you explain what specifcally is at issue here? (CPU load, ergonomics, voodoo, what?)
The 24 dig/analog O simultaneously is something I didn't need to consider since I mix analog.
Could you explain this? (I know what mixing analog is, BTW! I'm don't know what "The 24 dig/analog O simultaneously" refers to.)
Again, thanks.
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And now, your Graemlins of Zen:
:D :D :D ;) ;) :mad:
I can't elaborate on the punch problem, since I've never encount
I can't elaborate on the punch problem, since I've never encountered it punching up to 4 tracks (max for me so far). Best to ask at groups.yahoo.com hdr2496 group.
Sorry for the shorthand; the 24 dig/analog i/o simultaneously reference was to the hardware restriction that the Mackie imposes. It has 3 card slots, each supporting 8 channels of i/o. Mackie makes analog i/o or digital i/o cards therefore you can't use 24 channels of mackie's converters, but output to a digital mixer at the same time. The mackie is either pure analog or pure digital for each group of 8 channels. To me this is less of an issue since I mix analog.
I believe both TASCAM and radar have digital I/o available even when their analog option is installed.
I wouldn't really recommend the Tascam or the Mackie. I would g
I wouldn't really recommend the Tascam or the Mackie. I would go with a Radar 24. I've seen and fiddled with all 3 of them, and here's why I went with Radar, despite some of the different features the other 2 machines have.
MACKIE:
-You can't have 24 simultaneous digital ins and outs. There are only 3 slots in the machine for audio interfaces. So you can have 24 channels of TDIF or 24 channels of analog I/O... or 16 channels TDIF 8 channels analog etc...
-Not very rugged machine. I went into a store and the sales guys were having a laugh at it's expense. They showed me that if you arm 24 tracks and hit record, you only have a 50/50 chance that it will actually record anything.
-Backup does not seem very convenient. They suggest that you back up to their proprietary hard drive carriers or FTP the files into your computer.
TASCAM:
-I crashed this one within 5 minutes of getting my hands on it. It repeatedly flashed "OUT OF MEMORY" until I rebooted it and reinitialized the hard drive. There is no way that I would trust this machine with my audio.
-The buttons/jog wheel feel gross, cheap, and gummy.
-The menu system is rediculous and a real nightmare for a first time user who wants to do something simple like change the sample rate without a manual in hand.
-On the plus side: It sounds great. You can record in virtually any file system format. They do seem to be working out their bugs, and their tech support guys seem very responsive...
RADAR:
-Totally rugged beast. The session controller feels amazing and solid. I have faith that I can pound on the keys for years.
-Sounds amazing! you have the possibility to get audio cards that go up to 192kHz... it seems more modular than the other 2 systems
-I have yet to crash mine... I've actually armed 24 tracks and punched in and out repeatedly as fast I could for 5 minutes, and it didn't even hickup.
-24/7 Tech support
-On the down side: DVD-RAM backup is damn slow... but they do have other options available and more coming. They don't have Pro-Tools export until next month. I also wish you could zoom in further on the waveforms, but the editing fucntions are great nonetheless...
Anyways, I'm obviously biased :) I just want a machine that records well and doesn't crash, and that's what I got... good luck with your choice!