their new GDI21 is a pretty decent sansamp knockoff for 30$.

Making a quality product through research and testing is difficult (sans amp).

Reverse engineering a product, then building a knockoff (behringer) is not that hard.

Wes

Who cares, let them knock off whoever they want. Behringer always has a place in my heart/ :o

ohhh sh*t! He said the "Beh" word! Now it's gonna hit th' fan :!:

I know, I know. It's been discussed to death. It's just hard to let those "Be**nger rules!!!" comments go. :shock:

Wes

I have a Behring*r T-shirt I need to sell if your interested. It looks just like a Mackie T-shirt.
I tryed it on, it feels like an Digitech T-shirt I used to have.
It says Beh*inger on the front and SansAmp, and Groove Tubes, and Alesis on the back. :x
Any takers? :lol:

hmm, i need to hold my dignity somehow here..

i havent had much experience with behringer, i just started noticing them in guitar shops one day and thought 'man that looks like some crappy ass gear'.

im just happy i have a decent pedal to lay rough tracks down with, that cost near nothing.

sadly, our band is looking at behringer mixer boards for a practice PA system, which i dont like the idea of. so uh.. anyone happen to know of some good mixer boards around 250-300$ (need 6-8 mic channels and a DI for bass is all). id really rather go with another brand but theres not much that cheap that can compete.

How can they make that thing and sell it for $30 :?:

Reverse engineering, stealing designs all aside, I don't see how they can just manufacture it and sell it for that. They must be dumping.

list is 45$.

the guitar shop here usually sells things way under, i got a dean markley belt clip amp (50$) for like 30. my friend got an ampeg 15" (i think 700 or 800$ amp) for 600.

so i can see list 45$. quality is about on par as a boss pedal (though i doubt you could stomp it with a sledgehammer..).

Kurt Foster wrote: They must be dumping.

They took a dump alright. Maybe when Beh*inger makes their clone of the Groove Tubes "The Brick" maybe they'll call it "The Dump". :x
They can paint it brown and put little green flies all over it. :lol:

"On a par with a Boss pedal"....??????? What planet did you get off of? Boss has their own R&D (Roland). Boss originated the "no-click" electronic footswitch, had some of the first pedals with LEDs,
standardized power jacks, and invented the effect called "chorus".
And as far as Sansamp (Tech 21) products are concerned, they are QUALITY...QUALITY built, QUALITY designed (built-in power supply regulation, etc.), and QUALITY sound ( developed by REAL players in NYC). Both of these companies have produced long-term products for the serious player. I have at least 4 Tech 21 products in my studio (TriAC, SansAmp Bass & Acoustic, Killer Wail, plus a MIDI Mouse...OK, that's 5!). Nothing Behringer makes can stand up to ANY of those units....Uli Behringer's stuff is OK for the starter gig, but is a rip-off of the "good stuff".PEACE.

OK let me clarify that remark. Even at $45 list, how are they manufacturing and shipping it at a price that allows a dealer to sell it for that? If a dealer is selling at $30 that means they are probably paying at most 20 bucks. Add the shipping and "Beh" has got to be netting only $15 a unit.

I don't see how they can knock it out at that price. It's possible they are selling below cost (dumping) to gain market share. Add that to all the other issues everyone has with "Beh" for stealing designs, poor QC and the fact that their stuff is generally crappy it's just another reason to dislike how this company does business.

I might be wrong in as what it cost to make and ship these things ... but if they are so cheap to make, then even at $30 it's a rip off!

One of a few things is going on here. They're dumping, it's a real cheap POS or their labor costs are so low they can afford to sell at that price. Not to beat a dead horse but if it's the later, then the whole question of their sources of labor (Chinese prison / forced or child labor / as rumored but not substantiated) and "Beh's " labor practices comes into play.

Kurt Foster wrote: even at $30 it's a rip off!

:lol: Amasing what people will spend their money on.
I have a bag of air I need to get rid of. I'm only asking $10 for it.
This is no average bag of air however, this is special air. And is used to intoxicate the children of Chinese prison slaves on the other side or the world that work in Semi-conductor plants.
It has also been known to make you feel as though you are buying something for a good deal, but really you are getting basically nothing.

I just watched a PBS special on WalMart. Over in China, the laborers are making anywhere from $30 to $100 per week.

Take that with crap parts, ugly metal, simple metal work, no engineering and you have Behringer making money on it.

I think it is like this.

Behringer list :$45.00
Dealer Cost:$22.50
Distributor Cost:$19.50
Parts and manufacturing:$4.00
Labor:$.50

Then they still have to pay to get it here, import taxes, etc.

The question is: Who in the world would want to give up $30 of your hard earned money, for $4.00 worth of parts, and place that crap in the way of your audio? Not me. Go to the library, read some books on electronics, and build your own gear for that price. Atleast you will have learned what really should go into a box, and you aren't contributing to slave labor.

moonbaby wrote: "On a par with a Boss pedal"....??????? What planet did you get off of?

oh my god im talking about the quality of the box not the actual pedal, as in its not cheap plastic. which explains:

Kurt Foster wrote: They're dumping, it's a real cheap POS or their labor costs are so low they can afford to sell at that price.

god i come here for a friendly discussion that a supposedly crappy brand makes something dirt cheap that is somewhat decent for laying rough tracks.

and everyone loses their mind.

you all need to get your damn coffee already.. or stop drinking it, depends on the situation.

so do you all want me to drop this thing off a cliff and see if it still works? im pretty sure it could stand pretty close to the abuse a boss pedal can, i know it would outdo a DOD.

okay 45 isnt too bad, theres guitar pedals out there for 15$ and 30$. the cheap ibanez tubescreamer is like 40$, which is cheaper.

sheet wrote:
Labor:$.50

50 cents? That's a bit high for slave labor, don't you think? :lol: .....Damn, that sucks!
Ohhh wait, is that 50 cents a day, or an hour?

Rider wrote:
and everyone loses their mind.

Mind? What mind, we're musicians remember?

You can't go around accusing us of losing something that's already been lost... :)

bah thats true. plus its a forum, why am i surprised.

plus its a forum, why am i surprised

What's that supposed to mean? This is a place for us to express our opinions.

You expressed yours:

their new GDI21 is a pretty decent sansamp knockoff

And I expressed mine. Don't expect a pat on the back from everyone here if some people don't agree with you. What kind of place would this be if we didn't express our true opinions?

Wes

forums are notorious for heated discussions. i doubt a lot of people that posted here has even tried the pedal, they were too busy bashing behringer on reverse engineering and slave labor (which has such little to do with my original topic). i just wanted a discussion on the sound output compared to sans amp.

The difficulty in having someone be able to compare these particular two pieces, is that if someone already has a SansAmp its unlikely they will ever need to hear the Behringer thingy.And yes, there are a lot of folks who dont like Behringers product development tactics and this will certainly color their opinion about anything built by them...even without personal knowledge.My advice to you is to take the unit you have and directly compare it to anything else you wish at your local musical store and emporium.This would certainly answer your question without static from the masses here and would also allow you to make your OWN statement about how they sound side by side and make YOU the expert on this subject.

i give up. :roll:

I just watched a PBS special on WalMart. Over in China, the laborers are making anywhere from $30 to $100 per week.

Take that with crap parts, ugly metal, simple metal work, no engineering and you have Behringer making money on it.

Sorry, but I have to get into this. As a worker in a fire alarm factory, I'm making somewhere inbetween 30$ and 40$ per week (with maximum allowed overtime). And guess what, I'm not living in China! :shock: It would also seem that I'm living in Europe (be it the Eastern part of Europe). So, believe me it is possible to have something like :

Labor:$.50

and not be living in southeast Asia. :?

BTW, I'm living in Romania. :wink:

On Behringer, IMHO, you get what you pay for.

BUT, everytime someone even utters the "B" word, 10 ppl start bashing their slave-labor. Considering that A LOT of equipament, even semi-pro, and some pro gear, is manufactured in China, do you imagine that, for example, the workers that built my friend's Ibanez 400$ guitar or the $300 guitar combo, were paid 100$ (or more) a week? DREAM ON! They were paid exactly the same as the Behringer "slaves". That's the normal pay for Chinese laborers (or Romanian ones :oops:). So , I would say leave them alone on this subject.

Concerning their thieving R&D, I wonder, if they steal the exact circuits from other manufacturers, and reverse-engineer them, how come they're still in business? I imagine that are laws to prevent that. And if there aren't, I'd bet that most gear manufacturers "borrrow" at least part of other gear makers' ideas.

Just my 0.50$. Oh wait, that's my hour's pay..... :evil:

Mandachuva wrote: On Behringer, IMHO, you get what you pay for.

if only you knew how many different distortions ive ran through and been very disappointed. theres pretty much one type of distortion i can tolerate now, a straight up tube stack. ive found 2 exceptions that come 'close enough'. a trace elliot tramp with some good post distortion EQing (and an overdrive ran low gain into it), and behringer sans amp wannabe (which makes me want a sans amp classic now!). so tone wise, its not superior, but it is best ive heard coming from a box (and sounds much more colorful than a POD!). quality wise, it beats zoom, its constructed VERY well. i cant pull off the knobs with my bare hands, its plastic but a very well constructed plastic, its jacks are secure.

go and try one at a music store (not through an amp though, they dont make very good stomp boxes, theyre good for DI) THEN post your comments.

Hey, Rider, sorry for not answering the main thread. I just took a swing on the "Behringer sucks" posts. My "you get what you pay for" was based on other Behringer equipament I've used. And believe me, a lot of B. gear is used in Romania. :twisted:

Concerning the fact that you enjoy the Behringer Sansamp copy, hey, it's a matter of taste, right? I haven't heard it, nor do I have the opportunity, so I have no right to comment, nor did I comment on it. Peace.... :wink:

their stuff really looks like it is good low end. i mean, i want to avoid them at all costs, but it seems some people have had good experiences with them. my friend was looking at mixer boards for our band, and was really pushing behringer. i kept suggesting 'my friend suggests yamaha..' 'lets look at other brands' but he insisted *sigh*. we never got one though.

hey, hwat would be the best value for a mixer board. i would love to find something that competes price wise with behringer. would mackie be my best bet? looks like CFX12 mxII has the right plugs i would want (enough for 8 mic + a few line ins). not terribly fond of on board effects though, as i would rather get rack units (including a more flexible EQ). ive been wanting to get a system to learn with, as well as something viable for recording mixer board.

Whats the budget?

i dunno now, im staying with someone who runs live sound so i may not even need a live mixing board. thinking of a motu 896 hd (is that right? 828mkii but with 8 pres) and a mackie control board for logic, which would run about 2k or so. if i can hook up with doing live gigs with him he has an amazing mixing board (allen heath ML series).