I've been sending out emails to local studio in regards to job openings, not one has replied. That's BS.
Please feel free to add on...
Comments
Like I have said in the past, if you want to make a job doing au
Like I have said in the past, if you want to make a job doing audio, you generally have very few choices. You can work in theater doing live sound. You can work for a church doing live sound. You can purchase a PA system and hire yourself out doing live sound. You can apply to all of your local television stations to do live talking head shows like the news. You can call yourself a producer and try to find a young band, nurture them, record and mix them, try to sell the product? Or if you're lucky enough, you might meet a rich friend who wants to start a studio. It's not easy even if you are good. I prostitute myself to work in television where most people don't know good sound from bad sound they only know sound from no sound. I try to give people the best aural jobs possible even if the content sucks.
Sound Prostitute
Ms. Remy Ann David
"Please feel free to ad on." Ok, since you asked..... Several
"Please feel free to ad on."
Ok, since you asked..... Several times a year, (when the Fall, Spring and Summer sessions end), I get cookie-cutter emails from students who are finishing up Audio Schools and the like. Sadly, most of them are even worded identically. My guess is that these come from thier "Job Placement 101" promised in the sale brochure when they signed up for the school. No doubt, this is what you're up against. Your email may have been one of dozens he already got this week alone.
To be fair, I realize that what I/my studio does is not like many other normal studios do (if there IS such a thing as "normal"), and it's not surprising that if we DO get to the point of talking, a lot of folks fall off the curve pretty fast. We're not a "normal" facility in any sense of the word, and once they know we're not holding sessions with famous rockers or rappers, the curve dips pretty steeply.
When I'm hiring, or even thinking about hiring, I consider the whole profile of the person seeking work. Is the email or cover letter well written? (Yes, spelling counts, too....at least around here, when it's critical that someone knows the difference between a concerto and a symphony, and knows how to properly pronounce Bach and Mozart, etc.) Has the person bothered to compose something that may catch MY eye, for MY market? (Again, cookie-cutter/template cover letters are sometimes even offensive and you can spot 'em a mile away.)
Also in the blend is what they look like - clothing, hair, tatts and all - for when they'll be interacting with a client. Don't kid yourself; Looks DO count, at least in my little corner of the world. Slobs and freaks don't cut it around here....dress that way on your own time, but you're not going to go out on a gig representing MY biz. (Do we need to even mention hygene as well? nahhh........ :twisted: )
IMHO, it's also not getting them anywhere telling me they'd "Like to stop by to see my facility and speak with me as soon as possible....etc. etc." That's rude and pushy, among other things. Most studios have a lot going on, and that part - the in-person interview - will happen when it's supposed to happen. No need to overstate the obvious.
Let's face it; this industry is NOT a cold-call, hard sell, anonymous cover letter kind of biz. That's actually counterproductive sometimes; it just doesn't work that way. It's not like a General Motors or a Kraft Foods Human resource Dept. looking for an employee with x years experience in Chemistry or Personnel Mgt to fill a job/cube in Dubuque Iowa. Most studios are 3-10 employees, at the most, run by a small biz owner, who's probably doing 100 things at any time during the week; changing hats as fast as you can say: Multitasker-burnout.
During the busy season, I often put in 18 hr days, with intense periods of mixing, editing, phone calls to clients, phone calls to loved ones (usually too brief) and attempts at sleep, eating, etc. In the middle of all this, whoa...in comes an unsolicited cloned cover letter from someone who's clearly just going down the list of every studio in my area looking for work. How do you THINK I'm going to react? Jump for joy at being the 12th "victim" today?
Now don't get me wrong, plenty of places - including mine- are occasionally hiring, but it's not always the cut and dried process you're hoping for. It's often sporadic work. Very often, if I see a person is looking for the whole enchilada - full time work with bennies and the like - I don't even respond. Better to not let them get their hopes up here!
I can't offer full time to most folks, and even when I do, it's after a fairly serious break-in process of smaller gigs, or temporary help, etc. No one wants to risk someone untried, untested and green on even the most basic of projects. Not only does one have to worry about client relations (and damaged rep should the new hire prove to be trouble), there's also in-house issues like theft, housekeeping, and general behavior/work habits. It's a lot more than just mics and tape machines now, entire LANs and computer networks are often at stake. One virus download or pornsite malware, and one COULD go down in flames, fast.
Breaking in the most basic job involves time and patience, and again - the average overworked small studio owner already has his/her hands quite full, esp at this time of year. As much as I need help on projects, it's very tricky letting someone new deal with a client I've had for 15 years. Again, this biz is NOT like running the register at 7-11 or the stockroom at Walmart.
I know it's hard to start out in the first place - the chicken or the egg situation - but in this biz, it's best to have MANY connections, including some of your own projects. It's great to know as many folks in your area in your line of work as possible. Friendly competition is a good thing, and if word gets around about you and what you do - and the manner in which you do it - a good reputation will open a lot more doors for you than simple cold calls with unsolicited emails and template cover letters.
It's good to know people - networking, as they call it - so that you WILL know when a studio is hiring, what the owner/boss is into, what they want in a tech, and if they can get to know you by reputation before taking a chance hiring you. Sometimes you do a session in a studio as an outside engineer/producer and get to know the owner that way. Nothing works better than showing what you can do ON the job, in person. It's probably no consolation to you right now, but many people in this biz have found great jobs and great connections when they're NOT looking for them - while doing other stuff.
I got a call as recently as two hours ago from a friend, about a very green but highly motivated individual who THINKS he wants to work in this biz. (He's 24 and still hasn't found a job elsewhere, they said.) My response was: Go to our website, read what we're all about, then write me an email with the name of the person who referred him to me, and we'll see where it goes.
To be honest, I DO sometimes hire from cover letters and/or emails (twice in the last 3 yrs), but these were so well written and spot-on, they got my attention, were focused on what I needed at the time, and were NOT cookie cutter emails. They had good, one-page resume's with them, and there wasn't a hint of BS anywhere. One person had great math and mechanical skills (and knew the difference between a log and cosine fade envelope!) and the other came from an A/V Technical School.
Both have other work in the area as well, with other audio-related gigs. (Radio, TV, cable, etc.) I hire them as-needed, for day jobs and fill ins, and it works out great for all of us.
I don't want to throw cold water on anyone looking for a one-shot, full time, walk-in and go job in the audio field, but it's rare you're going to find that in todays "Studio" Market. You may find it with a place like NFL Films, (in Mt. Laurel NJ) or Broadway Video/TV (in NYC), or even at your local cable company's facilities, but otherwise, it's going to take a LOT of hustling (the good kind!) and creativity.
Unlike a job at Aetna or the Governement, NO ONE is going to look out for you in this line of work. Be ready to accept that and deal with it, or find a different way to make a living.
Several years ago, I did a mailing to about 10 area studios. I
Several years ago, I did a mailing to about 10 area studios. I think I may have gotten one reply--no openings available. So that set me in motion to try and slowly but surely put them out of business. :twisted:
I think email would be inappropriate, unless you are just looking for a no-pay job; or unless there is an actual job opening and email is the preferred method of responding.
good luck to you
Joe, for being such a busy season and not having any time, you s
Joe, for being such a busy season and not having any time, you sure seemed to have plenty of time to write lengthy response to this. I'm not trying to be a jerk. It's just something I thought about while reading.
I 'accidently' did put a studio here out of business recently, but he had it coming. The douche was recording in his living room with a digi002 and 2 57's with a C1000 as his "money" vocal mic. He was charging 100 bones per song for the most horrible sounding garbage I have ever heard. Apparantly people decided that his 'talk' about how great he was eventually wore of when the bands recieved their dub they just payed a grand for.
You put a guy out of business. you must have some serious skills
You put a guy out of business. you must have some serious skills.
well, amish lets hear some samples of your work?
here's a couple of clips of my most recent work...
Damn, stickers. I want my drums (toms, especially) to sound like
Damn, stickers. I want my drums (toms, especially) to sound like that first song. What gear did you use? Of course, the whole drummer + drums variable is there too, but I'm curious as to what you do to mic your drums, and gear used.
Edit: Checked your site. I'm surprised they're audix mic's. I've heard mixed reviews about them. Especially the D6. How do you like the Tapco monitors?
Mics Used: Mics: nt5s overheads D1 snare D2 hi tom D2 floor tom
Mics Used:
Mics:
nt5s overheads
D1 snare
D2 hi tom
D2 floor tom
D6 Kick (where did you see these bad reviews?)
D4 Bass Bass Guitar
SM57 Guitar Left
421 Guitar Right
K2 Vox
Onyx Mackie Pres and one Digi 002 on E.Bass cuz ran out of mackie pres.
I mixed ITB using my Tapcos and Sony MD7506 headphones..I go back and forth between them.
amishsixstringer wrote: Joe, for being such a busy season and n
amishsixstringer wrote: Joe, for being such a busy season and not having any time, you sure seemed to have plenty of time to write lengthy response to this. I'm not trying to be a jerk. It's just something I thought about while reading.
No problem, Amish. I'm glad you waded through all that, anyway. 8-) It WAS long, but I tend to type fast, what can I say? The new bag of Ethiopian coffee my assistant picked up in Africa last week sure helped a lot. (At least I THINK it was coffee....hmmmmmmm.)
Stickers, you've done some GREAT stuff, really man. It was a pleasure listening to both clips. Loved the vocals in the second clip - liked it enough to want to hear the rest of the song. (Is it commerically available?) It sounds like REAL music, not crushed or overly compressed to the point of insanity.
I see you're a man after my own heart - Mackie Onyx pre's are a helluva lot better than most gear snobs think. If you can get THIS kind of sound out of the gear you've got, you're on the right track, seriously.
And I agree with Reggie's plan - getting serious enough to want to put your competition out of business someday. That's a great motivator, and I used it myself for a lot of years, but eventually came to realize that I had to please ME more than anyone else. No one else matters. And don't worry about those who wont hire you. If your'e good enough, it'll be their loss sooner or later, and you'll be looking down on THEM.
Stickers, if you're ever down this way, look me up. Your stuff is really good, and you're gonna be fine, I have no doubt. Hang in there.
Am I the only person that thinks this tune I'm listening to is a
Am I the only person that thinks this tune I'm listening to is an average recording of a completely forgettable song?
Seriously, the song is boresville. I dunno if those guys gig much, and I'm sure when they do their g/f's love the emoting going on. But that song ain't in danger of rushing up any charts.
The recording is...meh, in my opinion. If I was going to point out specific examples, the drums get totally buried on less than optimal playback equipment. The vocal sound change is a little jarring to me, I'm wishing for something to cut the edge off it. Cymbals sound fairly clear, though. Lot of stuff sitting in the midrange.
But I've heard plenty worse.
Reason you ain't gettin any love from local studios? Your attitude.
"I sent out a buncha emails, and I ain't got no job YET?? That's BULLSHIT!"
Why? Cuz you're the only knobjockey in Mass that can figure out to use a 421 on guitar A and a 57 on guitar B?
JoeH was pretty on in his post. I'd add the suggestion to come the hell down off your high horse and maybe start trying to build some relationships in the local community rather than expect to get a job because you send a couple emails. Gigs happen, relationships are built. Get over yourself.
~S
PS- please don't make me listen to that band again
TheRealPelletgun, I am afraid you will likely be hearing that b
TheRealPelletgun,
I am afraid you will likely be hearing that band again.
They are signed to Columbia and will be heading into the studio with producer Matt Squire.
When will you be posting examples of your work on recording.org?
Your friend always and forever,
Stickers
PS - I didnt force you to listen to that band in the first place, assclown
stickers wrote: TheRealPelletgun, I am afraid you will likely b
stickers wrote: TheRealPelletgun,
I am afraid you will likely be hearing that band again.
They are signed to Columbia and will be heading into the studio with producer Matt Squire.
When will you be posting examples of your work on recording.org?
Your friend always and forever,
Stickers
PS - I didnt force you to listen to that band in the first place, assclown
Lotsa bands sign deals and head to the studio with producer So-and-so. That doesn't necessarily mean they'll ever see the light of day, or have much luck with it if they DO release something.
To answer your question about posting something I recorded, the answer is I'll post work I've done when I find a need for opinions on it. At some point you get to where you can fairly well tell if you've fucked up or not without asking a bunch of people's opinions. The client's opinion is really the only one that counts.
~S
Getting into the biz is HARD!!! :-? I've been trying to get my
Getting into the biz is HARD!!! :-?
I've been trying to get my audio post business off the ground for what feels like an eternity, but in reality is about two years. There's a few good paying gigs here and there, a good gig defined as being payed a reasonable sum of money, working with decent product for a client who isn't a total moron. But they are few and far between.
The work I did for 4Kids/FOX was through a long time friend. I was paid to mix an indie feature due to referrals from freebee work I had done for other people. I freelance at a couple of studios filling in when the regulars are sick, called out of town, whatever.
The rest are get the jerk into my studio, get the job done and get paid. They run the gamut from VO & music for home video projects, fix'n'mix for bands recorded in a garage or basement, singer demos, you name it. Let's face it, there's a lot of talentless people out there, but every client gets the best I've got - you never know who they know!
As several others have said you have to be networked, well spoken, have great people skills, be hygenic, nicely dressed, punctual, hardworking and a dozen other things in addition to being experienced, talented and technologically qualified to do whatever it is you want to do. Then, possibly, you may have a remote chance of a probability of getting somewhere.
I belong to several audio post/sound designer forums that include people who work for major facilities across the world, Oscar and Emmy winners, and similarly qualified people. I contribute regularly to the forums; asking questions, answering questions, participating in the "philisophical" discussions, etc. These are the best contacts I have. I have recently made a point of personally visiting every one of them that I can. And not to beg for a job, just to say "Hi! Let's go out and cry in our beers over how tough the business is and share some war stories." If they ask, I of course have my demo reel and promo package available. And many of them DO ask. The two visits I made last month have proven to be positive - I can use their name to get in the door of other facilities near me to offer my services as a sub-contractor. "I'll take the idiot clients you don't want to deal with or don't have the budget to work at your facility." And then they get my demo and promo package and voila! a 3-hour gig came in. Just one. But they went away happy. And so was the studio manager of the referring facility.
I also go to several indie screening parties each month to drink club soda, hand out business cards and see what my competition is up to.
I guess what I am saying is that personal contact, selling yourself face-to-face, is the best type of marketing you can do. It means getting out from behind the computer screen and keyboard and participating in the real world. Hell, it's worth it just to come up for air occasionally!!!
Great post UncleBob58. I will remember some of your good ideas,
Great post UncleBob58. I will remember some of your good ideas, and apply them as well.
I like the idea of knowning (using) peoples names that are already known in the community. That always impresses others when you know someone they've heard about, or they know personly. And happen to admire. A very quick way to meet common ground
Hiya...Just thought I'd chime in a bit because....well...it IS m
Hiya...Just thought I'd chime in a bit because....well...it IS my forum..
The advice about networking is EVERYTHING. Take heed of this and quit whining. Most pro studios (oxymoron) dont have time nor patience or the manpower to answer every knob-twiddlers emails,snailmails,or late-night drunken phone calls about why they are the NEXTBIGTHING to grace the operator side of a console. And they do get more of that than you can imagine.
The thought of competing with them is a good one. It certainly leaves your success up to you and only you. If you have skills at operating certain studios' gear, and can drum up a session, then perhaps you make arrangements with the studio manager for some late-night off hours sessions of your own, hire out one of their seconds to babysit, and bring in your own stuff to prove your interest. Your ability to run a session and not leave cup-rings all over the desk and cables in disarray as well as a broken mic or two, will speak volumes to a studio owner/manager as to your value. These hours can usually be bought for a fraction of the regular rates.
As for your leaving 'recent work samples' on this forum and not asking for or expecting feedback of ALL sorts....hey, you been here long enough to know better....
Here's mine....Unasked for but do I care?.....
The first bit is okay. Fairly neutral recording of fairly regular rock genre stuff. Good clean recording .
The second song is not much better than a demo. If that is what it is, then its a very good demo recording though I would personally have approached it with the drums and the non-existant bass upfront driving it rather than the inane sameolesameole guitar chickychicky crappola. The vocals sat nowhere and werent very flattering to the vocalist. Could be that this wasnt any of your call and thats fine...but you had damn well better get a handle on bruises being tossed at your work and deal with it in an unemotional and professional way cause theres never going to be a moment in this business that someones not going to be tearing your stuff up without regard to the time and sweat you put into it. Homey just dont care, and the man only listen to homey..
dig.
We all know that opinions are like a$$holes - everyone has one a
We all know that opinions are like a$$holes - everyone has one and they all stink. If you ask for an opinion from your peers and, more importantly, from your superiors, you had better be ready to handle it.
When I ask for an opinion I ask people whose track record and judgement I respect and then ask for BRUTAL honesty. Rip it to shreds, that's what I want! And as time goes by every time I ask for an opinion I get fewer trashings and more "not bad"s and even the rare wow.
One of my favorite mantras is that a professional baseball player who fails ONLY two thirds of the time at the plate is a potential candidate for the hall of fame. Edison failed to make a light bulb almost 1,000 times before he got it right. You keep working at it until you reach your goal. Or, you may finally decide to find another line of work.
I can't tell you how many SOLICITED applications for work I've submitted that never are acknowledged, even after doing follow-ups. If you waste your time moaning, bitching and complaining you're wasting time you could be improving your skills, and time is the most precious commodity you possess.
So wake up and smell the coffee, it's the real world out there and it will never be as you want it to be.
I think the cruelest part of this business (or any business, I g
I think the cruelest part of this business (or any business, I guess) for those of us just starting out is the fact that few bands want to work with you unless you have experience, but there's no way to get that experience unless you work with bands.
Whenever I do a demo for someone, I always take it to the producer I work with and ask him to absolutely rip it apart. Unless he's just being nice and doesn't want to lose an intern (because I know we're so hard to come by) I've gotten pretty good responses from him, but I'm still not happy. I know what I need to do different to please myself, but it's hard to get more business so I can try those things.
I think it's also important to point out that what constitutes a
I think it's also important to point out that what constitutes a good mix is HIGHLY subjective. When people ask for their mixes to be picked apart in a forum like this, people are really saying how THEY would do it, which is not necessarily the same as improving it. :wink:
Even in the best mixes that I hear I can almost always find something I'd have done differently....
From my experience I also think you have to look where the jobs
From my experience I also think you have to look where the jobs really are.
There are more seats availble in the Television industry, and with the federal mandate to switch to a digital broadcast system there will be more.
The industry is unionized, and they have internships and apprentice programs.
You would have a better chance at gaining experience, and exposure to the right people.
8)
Reading this thread has given me tons of information. I now kno
Reading this thread has given me tons of information. I now know that I will be washing cars for a few years along with interning at a studio or company before actually being hired :D And that's fine with me. Anything to get into the business.
So paper resumes > e-mail. Is showing up at the place in person verboten? Or is it even more impressive than a well-written snail mail letter?
LVC_Jeff wrote: Reading this thread has given me tons of informa
LVC_Jeff wrote: Reading this thread has given me tons of information. I now know that I will be washing cars for a few years along with interning at a studio or company before actually being hired :D And that's fine with me. Anything to get into the business.
So paper resumes > e-mail. Is showing up at the place in person verboten? Or is it even more impressive than a well-written snail mail letter?
For the purposes of working for a specific studio/tv station/radio station/etc, or for the purposes of being an audio engineer as your primary income?
The audio business is a lot like other businesses in a lot of ways, but it's very different from about any other business in the specific area of one getting ones foot in the proverbial door.
In my experience (and mind you, it's just my experience and not the be-all, end-all) it's relationships and perserverence that do you the most good. If you're getting your BA degree, then print up some resumes on expensive paper and mail them out. But if you're looking to be an audio tech, engineer, etc. then you should ditch the resume, ditch the emails, ditch the phone calls and lay down some shoe leather.
First thing you ought to have is a good base of knowlege you got on your own. Audio engineering is a very self-motivated job. Nobody is going to be giving you a list of to-do's and nobody is going to keep after you to file your TPS reports with the new cover sheet. You'll be expected to know what needs to be done, what order it goes in, how it needs to be done and then finally to do it without being told or have your hand held.
Therefore, it's a great badge to be doing as much work as you can individually and learning as much as you can while you do it. Additionally that gives you a basic vocabulary to draw from when you do come under the care of a real engineer. You won't have to ask what a TRS cable is, or where the patch bay is located.
Someone mentioned the experience paradox earlier: you can't get work without experience, but you can't gain experience without work. It's not always that way. Buy some gear, record your friends, record your church choir, do whatever you can just to understand how a recording gig works. This is the best time to learn how to be cool under pressure, confident, and to learn good troubleshooting skills too. Troubleshooting will be your most valuable skill for your whole life, trust me.
Also, don't overlook live sound as a wonderful place to learn stuff. Find a local sound company/guy-with-PA and ask if you can tag along and lift shit into the truck in return for being able to sit near the desk and ask questions. If you mention that you're primarily interested in studio work but want to learn live skills the guys giving you orders might even be nice enough to point out the differences between live and studio work when they crop up.
Another less than obvious idea is to hire a studio. If you're in a band, or you can play and/or sing, or even if you have friends in a band, go find a small, local studio that will record a couple songs for you and tell the guy you're interested in learning about studio work and ask if you can ride shotgun on anything you're not in front of a mic for. It's a few hundred bucks you could've spent on gear, but you get invaluable information, a decent demo of some songs and most importantly you've built a relationship. Now you've got a million ways you can go. You can bring other bands to this guy and either have the band pay him on your recommendation, or you can even offer to split the cost with the band so you can shadow this guy some more. Maybe he takes a liking to you and says you can stop in now and then and help out on non-critical projects.
Bottom line is that getting anywhere in audio is much more about relationships and reputations than resumes. Relationships and reputations are made by starting with a good attitude and developing chops. Some of the best knob jockeys out there don't own a single piece of gear. Many of them can't tell you what the difference between a 555 IC and a 9840 are. But every one of them that does any work at all has a great reputation and knows plenty of people.
~S
That's not BS...it's the way it is. Welcome to the audio indust
That's not BS...it's the way it is. Welcome to the audio industry. Go ahead...TRY to make a living off of it!
Most studios don't have any job openings. But they may be willing to take on an assistant/intern.
If you are looking for a paying job, you could be looking for quite a while. However if you are willing to intern, you might be able to find some work a bit quicker. Just know...studios are inundated with intern requests. There are far more people trying to get into the industry then there are studios that can hire them.
You might get better results via snail mail. Send them your resume. As far as jobs go, people like to have a piece of paper in their hands rather than read an email resume