Depends on the pre amps. They will make or break any effort with that selection of mics.

With that said, I would recommend trying a single 2001 as an overhead, 57 on the +snare port+ and the RE20 on the kick. That'll leave several spare mics and most likely a better drum sound.

The room will make a huge impact but you didn't mention that.

And of course, YMMV

Cheers,

TB :cool:

it seems a good setup to, to start.
I would get the Okatava MC012 FMSP from TheSoundRoom. They seems a very nice mics to me, and I use'em a lot, especially with the omni capsule.
I personally don't like the E603 (I have 3 of'em), but just becasue I was fortunate enought o get a couple white MD421 for less than the price of 1 E604.

good luck
ronnie

Thanx for the comments guys!! I really appreciate. Let me tell ya, I really love the 421s!!!! Those are the mics for toms, but unfortunatelly I cannot afford spending $300 bucks on each. If you guys can give some places where I can find them used for good prices :)? I know the room will make a huge difference so as the pre-amps. I don't know yet how my room is gonna be but I'm already getting my gear for my future home studio :) :)!!
I'm using a Mackie 1604 Pro... what you guys think? By the way, I noticed the you guys don't like to mic the whole kit... what kind of music you record most?! I'm into heavy music, and I'm a drummer too :) so maybe I'm a bit... to worried about the drum sounds...

If you like your 421 try a 441 on snare. You may never use a 57 again.

Hey guys, neat discussion...but not exactly right for the neighborhood...so I moved it over to Harvey's world. Seems like a slightly better place to have this discussion.

Enjoy!!

Thanks a bunch Fletcher, but you're right - this is my turf; bottom-feeder country. For kick, you might also look at the ATM25 and I agree on the V67G instead of the 2001. I really like to Audix omnis for overheads but the 603Ss should work fine too. Assuming a good room, some decent drums, and a good player, you should be able to get a nice professional sound from that system.

Interesting thread indeed, since I was thinking about getting the 604s, but not knowing ANYTHING about them. I live in Paraguay (South America), and I can't get most mics, much less test them and see what I like best. I had thought about getting a kit of three 604s, but I don't know how well they sound. Isn't $350 a bit low for something a little better sounding than just decent, if at all? I don't mean to sound self righteous or snobby or anything...in case I do...

Is there a difference between the white and the black 421s?

How do the KM184s work as overheads for rock? I work digitally (PTLE) and my pres are Mackies (1604 VLZ), and very soon the Digimax...there's a plan for better pres, maybe a pair of api or something, but no money right now...

I need to close mic the drums for certain styles, so that it sounds less rocking, a bit mellower and in the direction of sounding similar to sequenced drums (WHAT!), cuz that's what a lot of poeple here are used to (in Paraguay). Rooms make the drums sound pretty sweet in my opinion, but too spacious for most folks (mariachi/romantic type cheese).

I was thinking for close mic'ed kit:
Kick RE20/421
Sn 57
Toms 604s?
OH KM184 (SM81 until the Nmanns get here)
HiHat uh, I am not sure...how do large diaphragm cond. sound?

Generally, I don't like to mic the HH.

Juergen

I recorded a couple of fusion/rock drummers last week and all of them had the kits close mic'ed and the results made me believe that's the way to go... don't get me wrong, I'm a newbie, so I never tried a couple of mics on the drum kit... I'm just saying what I experienced! :) And any other comments on the 604s?

I used to think that more mics = better sound. Unfortunately, that's rubbish. Phase problems lead to a weaker sound and if you have that close-mic'd approach 'everything' sounds big - there's no sense of scale and, in my experience, whilst the kit might sound fine on it's own, as soon as you bring the other instruments in, the kit disappears.

Maybe you could try experimenting with a fairly live room and mic placement for a big sound. The 3 mic technique Fletcher uses can work wonders - maybe with an additional matched mic catching the bottom of the snare?

How do the Sennheiser 604s sound on toms? If one were to get a kit like this one, has anyone heard or experienced what it sounds like, the different brands, etc?

Is there a diff between the white and the black 421?

Juergen

I'll try the 3 mic technique soon!! I'm glad you guys are encouraging me on this :)! Comments about the 604s? :)

Originally posted by Juergen:
How do the Sennheiser 604s sound on toms? If one were to get a kit like this one, has anyone heard or experienced what it sounds like

I bought one to try it out- without eq, it pretty much sounds how the drum itself sounds (like a dynamic mic). This could be exactly what your looking for, but if you are looking for a mic to enhance the drum sound, I can't say. I need to spend some more time with it & an eq before I give it a solid two thumbs up.

See ya.

Well... I don't have a lot of money to spend on mics, so what I want at least, is a good representation of what is going on with my kit :)! Most home studios cannot make your drum sounds larger than life (I believe...). So, we have one good input for the 604s... anyone else?

We use the Sennheiser E504s here (which are an earlier version of the 604) and they work fine for toms.

Thanks for the responses!

Juergen

Originally posted by Rog:
I used to think that more mics = better sound. Unfortunately, that's rubbish. Phase problems lead to a weaker sound and if you have that close-mic'd approach 'everything' sounds big - there's no sense of scale and, in my experience,as soon as you bring the other instruments in, the kit disappears.

Tell that to Jack Joseph Puig and Steve Albini.

The 3 mic technique...can work wonders

So, you find that the three mic technique always works really well for an extremely layered dense rock mix? Is that a risk you want to take? Lets just say for the moment that the drummer is incredible, and he has a top of the line kit tuned to perfection and you are recording him in a very well designed tracking room. The Kit sounds pretty damn good at that particular moment and your preconcieved notion about "purist" 3 mic drum recording leads you to record it in that particular way (rather than listening, you already know this method is perfection). So mix time comes, either you are doing the mix or you have to hand in your homework to another mixer somewhere else. What does he do when he wants the toms louder (don't say automation, thats not purist first of all and secondly there is going to be a lot more going on with cybmals and possibly snare at that particular moment), or the snare snappier with more reverb on the snare than the cymbals, I'm sure the rest of you could come up with more examples.

Look, what I am saying is that it is not going to hurt to close mic everything up and then only use what you need at any particular moment. There have been countless albums where there are multiple mics going at the same time. Maybe the phase has been lessened by using auto, maybe by using gates, maybe by using Samples/triggers, maybe the phase is sometimes benefitial and actually works within the context of the mix. Either way every method in the book has been used and the more options you have open to you in the end, the better the production will be.

Nathan Eldred
Atlas Pro Audio, Inc.
http://www.atlasproaudio.com