I strongly second that suggestion. I love Asus boards, and Intel chipset is the best way to go for a P4 system. Or you could go the Athlon XP route and get a Asus A7N8X mobo (also has Intel chipset). Check the mobo specs to find out what type of RAM it supports. And don't skimp on cheap RAM, its not worth it.

mitz

Also, I can't guarantee you compatibility with your hardware list, because the list of variables is just too long.

mitz

Thanks mitzel

Appreciate the input ,,,

I was also looking at the p4p800 , but my guy is graoning about installing more drivers for the chip set,,

is that a better way to go ???

whats a good Ram combo if i go 1 gig ???

thanks again

Sanity

I'm sorry I just noticed that your first post was for the P4S800. That's the one with the SIS chipset. The P4P800 is and the P4C800 are basically neck to neck. The C has the Intel 865 chipset,w while the P has the 865PE. I'm too lazy right now to do any research, but that's the main difference.

As for 1GB RAM, get the biggest chips that the MOBO supports, that way you won't have to remove RAM to add more

Thankz Again Mitzelplik

I'm tellin ya this is a confusing decision

one board has hyper threading for running ram at 800 fsb, but most ppl turn it off in bios, hence spending needless money on ram that cant be uesed right

then no hyper thread,,

geesh, i just wanna record lolol

anyway , appreciate the input,,,

well see who quotes the least on package as one shop will work with the " S" board and one wont,, lol

peace thnx , going coocoo trying to make a decision

Sanity Inn or is that Inn Sanity :) ))

Sanity Inn,

Hyperthreading deals with the processor, not the memory. Its a feature within the Pentium that allows it to be seen as two processors by Windows. In a DAW it has its drawbacks, but none of them concern RAM

It has no connection, as a matter of fact, wit hthe RAM. The RAM speed matches the front side bus (FSB) speed. The FSB is the connection between RAM and processor. So whether or not a board supports HT, makes no difference in the type of RAM you get. The key is the FSB, (as well as MOBO compatibility)

mitz

Originally posted by mitzelplik:
and get a Asus A7N8X mobo (also has Intel chipset).

Nope. This is the nVidia chipset.

Get an Intel/Intel, or an AMD/nVidia.

I agree that you should go for the models with Intel chipset... So no "S" please.
Just another question:
Isn't it better with two sticks of 512 Mb than one 1Gb ? Isn't the Dual-Channel DDR400 Memory support on the Asus "800" Mobo's working better with two sticks, or did I remember it all wrong?

Hey Gang, thanks for the follow thru

My latest quote was a P4P 800 Deluxe,,

2 X 512 gig Ram but no brand ,

any suggestions for CDRW to work with SAMplitude
?

Thanks

I'll post my set up b4 I go ahead and buy it, just to get confirmation

Thanks again appreciate all the help

Sanity

one more thing: Hopefully you won't have any trouble with the Radeon 7500 video card.... but I would go for Matrox G550 just to be on the safe side.
I also think that you should concider to get a DVD/CD-RW since I think that more samplebased software will come on DVD in a near future. Maybe go for a "DVD-burner" so that you can back-up a project on just one disc.... I really wish I had one.

Originally posted by Sanity Inn:
Hey Gang, thanks for the follow thru

My latest quote was a P4P 800 Deluxe,,

2 X 512 gig Ram but no brand ,

any suggestions for CDRW to work with SAMplitude
?

Thanks

I'll post my set up b4 I go ahead and buy it, just to get confirmation

Thanks again appreciate all the help

Sanity

As a respondant to many of these threads, here's how I see it:

You definatley DO NOT want the SiS version of this board for DAW, performance will suffer.

You have 2 proven choices depending upon what your needs are?

If VST/Softsynth/Midi is your thing, then some are reporting better performance (benchmarks) with the NForce2 chipset boards. Popular choices are the ABIT NF7-S and the ASUS A7N8X Deluxe. The only trick here is to make sure you pay attention to memory and get modules that are known to work. NForce2 chipsets are picky about memory and power. You must have a minimum or a combined 220watts on the +5, +3.3v rails and 28amps on the +3.3v, as stated on the side of the units.

If going mainly audio, then the Intel 865/875 chipsets are the ticket. Midi does not appear to be much of and issue either way. BUT...you need to make sure your interface will work with whatever choice you've made.

Now without getting technical, in most cases you do feel or see and speed difference between either platform if you are fair to yourself and have used comperable CPUs. So the way I see it, if you want a AMD processor, then do it with a Barton core and use the NForce2 chipset. Built one of these a few months ago and its a screaming stable machine.

If you like Pentiums and feel better about that, then use the 865. I use a P4 based system in my studio as my main unit and it too is very fast a stable.

And then you can always use the higher priced 875 if you think that will help you in some way? With the 875 you get [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.intel.co…"]PAT[/]="http://www.intel.co…"]PAT[/]and ECC memory support. ECC is a non issue for the most part and PAT you can read about and decide if you think thats the ticket or not? I'd choose the 865 platform because DAW is not graphic intensive.

I've built many systems based upon various chipsets. My impression is the NForce2 chipset has been proving to be a good choice as are the Intel 865's. So I updated the parts list below a little to reflect whats currently available for the AMD box and give alternatives for an Intel box (its from my perspective):
[list]

Thanks jscott

very informative,,,

lets see

I intend to record Audio mostly ,, but since i don't have real players at my disposal will be doing rest of tracks in midi for concepts...

the gear is detailed at top of forum, and the lastest quote for a DAW is below , with follow up questions to my pc guy at end of sentences,,,

As for cdrw or DVD r,,, i'll have to research that one, i know Samplitude had a few they suggest on the site but can't seem to find it now ,,,

ASUS P4P800-DELUXE MAINBOARD................... which is better , p4c or p4p? price difference ?
--INTEL P4 3.0 GHZ CPU W/800FSB.................... what chip version ?
--2X512M DDR 400 RAM ............what brand of Ram, can you quote Corsier???
--2X80GB WD HD W/8MB
--ATI RADEON 7500 VGA W/DUAL DISPLAY ......i need this to fit AGP slot,,,, also quote radeon 9000 please
--ONBOARD LAN ,SC,1394,
--LG 52X24X52 CDRW ......what brand is this ???
--FLOPPY DRIVE................. just the " A " drive??? i dont need a standard CD rom drive if I have burner ?
--ATX CASE WITH 450W POWER what brand of Power supply??? is 415 watt cheaper? any variable speed on this ?
--2-PORT KVM SWITCH AND KVM CABLES not sure what this is , please explain
--WINXP-PRO CD AND LICENSE

TOTAL:$1649+TAX canadian

again, thanks for the direction gang,,,

Sanity

ps jscott

"" DVD: At a minimum you want a DVD drive with the DVD+R format so you can add volumes at a later date. DVD-R is a volume all at once format.

whats the added cost to going DVD?
can one play transport DVD to non DVD

will Samplitude and other software, nero etc, be cool with this??

many mote thanks

Sanity

Originally posted by Sanity Inn:

whats the added cost to going DVD?
can one play transport DVD to non DVD

will Samplitude and other software, nero etc, be cool with this??

many mote thanks

Sanity

Sanity,
A DVD+-RW will cost you about $150-200. A fast CD burner will cost you $50. I would suggest both if the budget (and IDE connectors on the mobo) allow. CD burner to create audio CDs (the point of all our efforts) and to transfer smaller batches of files. DVD for backup, and for when you finish that indie film score.

mitz

Basically all DVD+RW drives out there include CD+RW functionality. No need to get both! Plus, once you have used DVD+RW's there is only one reason to use CD+RW's: Audio CD compatibility.

I got a Mitsumi DVD+RW for $139 the other day and it works great in my machine. No issues at all.

MisterBlue.

Yeah you're right MisterBlue. My advice is partially based on the fact that in the past the DVD burners had abysmal CD burn rates, like 16x. And also, I burn waaaayyyy more CDs than DVDs, so for me and many others it makes sense to relegate the CD burning to a second drive. In the past this would protect the investment in the DVD drive, by decreasing the workload, but in 6 months, they'll be $99.99, so hey, I guess you don't need both.

I guess I need to get with the times, and put my trusty old DVR-104 to rest. 8x CD burning, who'da thunk it? I bought an external TDK to handle CD chores, 48X and I love it. CDs used to take 4evrrrrrr on my DVD drive.

Originally posted by mitzelplik:
Sanity Inn,

Hyperthreading deals with the processor, not the memory. Its a feature within the Pentium that allows it to be seen as two processors by Windows. In a DAW it has its drawbacks, but none of them concern RAM

It has no connection, as a matter of fact, wit hthe RAM. The RAM speed matches the front side bus (FSB) speed. The FSB is the connection between RAM and processor. So whether or not a board supports HT, makes no difference in the type of RAM you get. The key is the FSB, (as well as MOBO compatibility)

mitz

I'm a little confused here. I've been under the impression that the term "dual channel," when referring to RAM, is built specifically for hyperthreading. Aren't the two channels of RAM made available, one channel each, to the two virtual processors in a hyperthreading system, thus creating two virtual banks of RAM? Dual channel RAM is quite a bit more expensive than standard RAM, so in that case, doesn't it make sense to not spend any more $$$$ than is necessary on RAM? Since I've disabled hyperthreading in my DAW, I've chosen not to spend extra money on dual channel memory. Your advice in not skimping on RAM, both in terms of quantity and quality, seems to suggest that I should have spent an extra couple hundred bucks on RAM. Would you say I skimped here in not springing for the best, most expensive stuff out there? Just wondering for my own clarification.

Hey Jamie ,,

that's what i've been confused about on a few forums I read,,

basically buying a mobo that has this, them the Ram that can do this only to disable it cause it's not solid on audio,

so same coments were made, why spend money on faster Ram if when disabled acts like standard pc ??

either way, gonna have to bite the bullet and make a choice ,,

Again thanks for making this a good post gang :)

Sanity

choices for my DVD drives

DVD+/-RW DRIVES:

$159--NEC ND1300A
$169--ASUS 0402PD
$179--LG 4040B
$199--PIONEER 106D
$209--SONY DWU14A
canadian

Sanity

HT and dual channel memory are separate and distinct guys.

HT divides processor time between processes. HT does _NOT_ devote one channel of memory to one thread and the other channel to the other thread. Rather the load is split between the two memory channels.

Just imagine you have two hard drives. You create a song with 20 wav files in it. Ten of these wav files are on drive 1. The other ten are on drive 2. When you play the song back, you have an equal load balance between the two drives. This gives you the ability to access the data twice as fast. Now imagine you only have one drive. The data access is half as fast.

They operate separately from one another. Disabling HT does not disable dual channel memory.

Dual channel memory provides two channels along the system bus to and from memory. By doing that, dual channel memory actually doubles the amount of information that the processor can access out of memory at one time. Whether or not the processor is capable of HT.

As an example, the G5 processor is not a hyperthreading processor, however it uses dual channel memory.

mitz

I'm a little confused here. I've been under the impression that the term "dual channel," when referring to RAM, is built specifically for hyperthreading.

Its not.

Aren't the two channels of RAM made available, one channel each, to the two virtual processors in a hyperthreading system, thus creating two virtual banks of RAM?

No. Both virtual processors share the same pool of RAM.

Dual channel RAM is quite a bit more expensive than standard RAM,

Its the same memory. There is no such thing as dual channel RAM. Dual channel is _not_ a type of RAM. Dual channel memory is a motherboard configuration.

You may be referring to DDR RAM, which stands for Dual Data Rate RAM. DDR RAM runs at twice the data rate, another separate and distinct feature, not required for dual channel memory or hyperthreading. This does _not_ equal dual channel RAM.

Some mobos use DDR RAM in a dual channel configuration, Some use SDR (single data rate, or just the regular old RAM) in a dual channel config. Some use DDR RAM in a single channel configuration, Some use standard RAM in a single channel config. Confusing huh?

so in that case, doesn't it make sense to not spend any more $$$$ than is necessary on RAM?

You _must_ buy the type of memory the mobo supports. You don't have a choice in that matter. You make the decision on what type of memory to buy when you buy the mobo.

Since I've disabled hyperthreading in my DAW, I've chosen not to spend extra money on dual channel memory. Your advice in not skimping on RAM, both in terms of quantity and quality, seems to suggest that I should have spent an extra couple hundred bucks on RAM. Would you say I skimped here in not springing for the best, most expensive stuff out there? Just wondering for my own clarification.

You didn't skimp. If the memory works in your mobo, then you bought exactly the right kind of memory.

I think you are thinking too hard about it. Just think of hyperthreading, dual channel, DDR, as separate, distinct, unrelated features that a mobo can have. You can have them in any combination you like. All you ahve to do is buy the appropriate mobo.

I hope this helps.

mitz

more info , thanks for reading

will consider this DVD burner

http://www.plextor.com/english/products/708A.html

deciding on what ATI Radeon,
7500 with 64 meg
8500 or 9000 64 meg
or do i go with 128 meg on dual head card ?

we're getting close

Appreciate the input

Sanity

ok ok
so maybe this DVD burner lol

the pc guy said it's more stable nad unless i needed to write 8X dvd special no use spending money on it

SONY DWU14A dvd rw

thanks

Sanity

Wel, its seems as though thememory/DDR/Dual Channel thing has been settled, so I need not comment other than to say two things:

1. You can buy memory that is faster and more expensive then your configuration can use. For example, theres really no need to buy anything over PC3200 unless you feel better by doing it, or you intend to overclock it. In which case better RAM MAYBE more stable.

2. Dual Channel vs Single channel. In some of these boards, you can add multiple modules to each respective channel. When you add more than one module per channel, capacitance on that channel slows the memory down to be equal to almost 1 full CAS rating lower. So if put 2 CAS 2.5 modules on one channel, you have slowed the memory to about a CAS rating of 3.5. Why is this relevent? If you divide the channels so that you have equal amounts on both channels and run in dual channel mode, you effectivley (come close) double the speed. So dual channel mode of 2 modules vs single channel mode of 2 modules is a significant speed difference. However, Dual channel mode of 2 modules vs single channel mode of 1 equal CAS rated module is not as significant a change in speed.

So when one questions the speed of RAM and whether there is a significant performance hit, its not as simple as saying yes or no. The answer is in the details of what you have and what you will choose to go with it.

Now reality, provided you have picked memory with care that is compatible with your MB, the amount and quality are much more important than dual vs single channel. Lots of people with dual channel boards are running single channel configs, mainly due to cost to buy more RAM. These conditions I speak of are certainly performance gains/losses that can be measured. However, you are not likely to feel or see a difference between the two extremes, PROVIDE everything about quality and quantity are the same. Where these things rear their heads is when you are pushing the box to its limits and then yes, all these subtle changes start to make differences.

As for the video card, again, DAW is not graphically intensive and these higher powered card come with all kinds of background programs. Some of them can hurt performance. BUT...if you are going to do video, I'll have to bow out cause I'd hate to say I know which of these would be a better card if creating video.

As for Samplitude and the CD/DVD question: I would say first, I do not know what will work better driectly with Samplitude. However, it is far more customery to bounce all the tracks to the HD first, and then burn. So in principle, as long as it works well with the OS, it should work fine for Samplitude. I would hate to spend all that time mastering something while burning direct to a disk to find out the disc or something else was flawed.

As for which one, pick your day of the month, article and price. They change almost daily. I like Lite-On stuff because they build the vast majority of mechanisums for the major manufacturers. Plextor is not one of them. I've owend many Plextor drives, and IMO, they are over rated and over-priced. Plus, every LiteOn I've purchased is still running to this day and I have had (knock on wood) zero failures. Besides, a little investigative research will show none of them ever burn at their max rated speeds reliably anyways.

Reagrdless of which you pick, I'd suggest reading the specific product reviews posted on http://www.newegg.com because they are from real users.

Hey gang, almost there when it comes to ordering my daw,,,
stuck on a couple of decisions

--ASUS P4P800-DELUXE MAINBOARD
--INTEL P4 3.0c GHZ CPU W/800FSB
--2X512M DDR 400 PC3200 RAM OCZ RAM
--2X80GB WD HD W/8MB
--ATI RADEON 9200 VGA 128 meg W/DUAL DISPLAY
--SONY DWU14A.DVD-RW
--FLOPPY DRIVE.. A
--ATX CASE WITH 450W POWER.....Nspire
--WINXP-PRO CD AND LICENS
-- XP Ghost software
--ONBOARD LAN ,SC,1394,

decisions

DVD either the SONY DWU14A OR PLEXTOR 708A

on the power supply the brand is now Nspire, but would move to Enermax if better choice

and is the Vid card OK?

I'll be installing

1 Rme HDSP 9562 with 1 ADI - 8 DS Pro
1 UAD-1 card.
1 Sam7
1 midi time piece

I'd like to order this puppy early this week, so if anyone has comments, please make em

thanks for your opinions

Sanity Inn

Don't know a thing about "NSpire" to comment. Enermax are very good supplies, so are the Antec TruePower ones.

Just curious, why are you getting a MTP?

Thanks jscott..

the MTP would be more to handle the patches on my keyboard, aswell as use my DR 5 drum machine and use sysex on the lexicon verb

or midi triget the TC Voiceworks i may get,,

basically so i dont have to patch and unpatch for the stuff i may use as writing tool till i can get real tracks down

oh here's a link to the Nspire power supply ,, the enermax power will cost me 38 bucks more (canadian)

really appreciate the info

Plextor DVD will cost me 100 bucks more then the Sony

thanks
Sanity

2 more questions to add to the pile:

1) RAM Brands? (Kingston? Corsair?)

2) The latest ASUS mobo has firewire and ethernet built into the board. Can these stay active? (I know to deactivate the sound).

the FW should be fine, can speak on the ethernet tho.

mitz

Just wanted to post the final result of a long awaited DAW :) )

thanks for all coments and suggestions,,

I hope this config helps future decisions

Sanity

Last week i finally picked up the DAW and installed it all,,,

this is what I have

--ASUS P4P800-DELUXE MAINBOARD.....
--INTEL P4 3.0c GHZ CPU W/800FSB.......
--2X512M DDR 400 PC3200 RAM OCZ RAM ....
--2X80GB WD HD W/8MB..................
--ATI RADEON 9200 VGA 128 meg W/DUAL DISPLAY.
--Plextor 708A DVD burner
--FLOPPY DRIVE A............
--ATX CASE WITH 450W Enermax POWER....
--WINXP-PRO
--XP Ghost.
--ONBOARD LAN ,SC,1394,

-- RME HDSP 9652 card with ADI-8 DS pro 8 in/8 out ad/da
-- UAD-1
-- SAM 7.**

I'm running Sam in ASIO at 3ms and rock stable

at this point I loaded TUTOR1 and then added every plugin I could to see what kind of CPU load it would do and ran between 0% and 4%...
( now this would be a cool thing for SAM to have , a 4 track 30 second ( or 15) test song to loop and see what type of cpu load one gets on their DAW based on preset effect used )) just a thought

also went to http://www.musicxp.net and tweeked most of these suggestions

RME card is in 1st PCI slot and UAD in 3rd slot with both having their own IRQ..

" Logic rules, emotion wins" SI