Forgot to mention that I have already got the pc and Nuendo is on the way, so that is not a factor in the 5,000. The 20gig harddrive is something that I already had and I thought it would make a good drive to place Nuendo and dx/vst's on.

Mackie control for the PC- $1k new, 600-700 on ebay- an expander to make it 16 channels should set you back 800 new, about 500 on ebay-

I don't know how the 8 preamps on the motu 192 are but the ones in the 828mkii are not quite good enough in my opinion. not as compared to other offerings out there. also the motu AD conversion is not the best IMO. I have the 828mkii and I'm bypassing the AD with an Apogee rosetta. You can get an apogee AD 16 channels for about 3k. It will connect to your PC via firewire so you won't need the motu. And the firewire card is extra...

(dead link removed)

but that already takes a big chunk of your budget and you still need 16 ch of preamps.

16 channels of quality preamps can set you back a lotta money. lets see, $1750 will buy you 4 ch sebatron, $750 will get you 4 ch of sytek, while $1500 will only get you 2 ch of great river. studio project has a new 8 ch preamp out, the SP 828

http://www.zzounds.com/item--STUSP828?trk=smx

which is supposed to be comparable to the sytek. I haven't heard it but that is the buzz out there and its $599 for 8 ch- I do own a sytek and I can tell you that it is way better than the motu preamps and way better than any roland preamps I ever heard.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3278&item=3735448999&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

I know its a bitch but quality stuff is not cheap... sometimes when you have a limited budget you have to make compromises. In your case I guess you'll have to give priority either to quality conversion or quality pres. If you get the HD192 I believe that will set you back about $1200 and you do get 8 ch of preamps and AD conversion. IMHO though is not quite good enough, although probaly astep above he roland. You will end up buying an AD and preamps again down the road as I did. Of course in the best of possible worlds you would buy the apogee for 3k, 16 ch of great river for 12 K and the mackie control and extender for another 1-1 1/2 K and you would have the best! But you know what they say, if wishes were horses, all musicians would ride!

Good luck and have fun spending your audio money!

Sounds good..........I am thinking about doing the apogee A/D and going with 2 studio projests sp828 8-channel preamp. Then doing Just the Mackie controller for now....I can always add to that. I really want the sound right now. Anybody else having anything to add. I am really looking for GOOD info. Thanks

Sometimes you can get the previous model of the 16 ch apogee AD16 on e bay for about 2K. It is certainly good enough if you can get one. Be aware that there are 2 models, the AD (analog to digital) and the DA (digital to analog.) You want the AD to bring analog sounds into your computer. The DA is needed if you are mixing to an external console.

Another one to consider is the lucid 8ch converters which can be found ocassionally on ebay for just a little 1k- My friend has one and it sounds great. 2 of those would do the trick.

Mind you, the motu HD 192 is not a bad unit and it would get you recording in a hurry for about $1200 but IMO is not in the same league as the rosetta or the lucid in the conversion department and if the preamps are like in the 828 mkii they are ok but nothing to write home about.

If you do go with the SP828, please let us know how you like them. I don't think anyone in this forums has bought one yet or we would have heard about them already... good luck!

:oops: Correction- the lucid will not do the trick as you would still need a front end such as the HD192 but bypassing the AD conversion. I forgot that we connected the lucid to my motu 828 mkii via adat optical, thus bypasing the AD in the motu. I got my 2ch rosetta connected to the 828 via spdif.

Actually, the motu 828 does have the capability of giving you 20 inputs. 2 via spdif (here you can use a rosetta 2 ch like I have), 8 via adat optical (you can use the lucid here for 8ch of premium AD. Then there are 2 ch of built in preamps and 8 more ch of inputs (you will need 8ch preamps). That adds up to 20 but only 10 would be premium AD channels while the other 10 would be the motu AD channels.

This set up would work for me because I can use the 10 channels of apogee/lucid conversion to record drums, bass and maybe rhthym guitar. In the other 10 channels you could put scratch vocals, scratch lead, etc and overdub later when the apogee and the lucid were free. But since you are starting from scratch you don't have to deal with that. :D :D

maintiger wrote: Mackie control for the PC- $1k new, 600-700 on ebay- an expander to make it 16 channels should set you back 800 new, about 500 on ebay-

I paid $740 for my MCU (new) at GC. Just have to deal 'em down.

On the expander, from another perspective...I thought I was going to die if I didn't get the expander. But, after learning to utilize the bank switching, I'm glad I didn't buy one. I can get the next set of faders almost intanteously and have more room on my desktop.

Just my 2¢

I have got my heart set on the apogee, I have heard great things about them for years. The preamps I am still a little unsure of. Maybe I should go with a 8-channel pre. I would like 16, but I guess the most at one time would probably be 8(drums). I could always add more as needed.

rme converters sounds fantastic!!!

and stay analog!!!! even a mackie 1202 console sounds better than plug-ins!!

I love Apogee gear and if you can afford it I recommend it in a heartbeat! But it doesn't make sense to me to have the best converters and the cheapest mic pres ... It's a cart before the horse thing for me. I really believe great pres make much more difference sonically.

The converter format sample rate thing has calmed down somewhat, but at some point someone will come up with a new rate or format standard and any money invested in high end converters will be wasted.

I don't belive it's the case in regards to Apogee but most other converters that use the ADAT light pipe protocol, are useing chips made by Alesis ... so I assume for the most part they are all pretty much the same .. am I incorrect in thinking that the differences are in the analog circutry and the digital clock? ... which, in most situations, is overridden by the host recording programs internal clock?

If I had an Apogee I would of course, be clocking my whole system from it. In the case of most other converters, if you consider that they are clocked by the host, perhaps spending all the budget on the digital input conversion might be a mistake?

If 24 bit is all you want, there are many inexpensive converters that I think will do fine ... for less than $1200 I got 16 channels of Alesis AI3, analog ins and outs on lightpipe and a Frontier Designs Dakota ADAT ligtpipe PCI card to interface it to the computer that has 2 channels of spdif in and outs for 18 channels total, .... saving the rest of the dough for great mic pres.

Of course in the best of worlds, great pres and Apogee converters are in order! But it's tough enough just getting the cash for the mics and pres ...

I don't belive it's the case in regards to Apogee but most other converters that use the ADAT light pipe protocol, are useing chips made by Alesis ... so I assume for the most part they are all pretty much the same ..

ease up on the lsd!!!! :-? :-? :-? :-? :-?

maybe the lightpipe transmitter/reciever chips are alesis but the a/d and d/a are akm/crystal as far as i remember....

apogee is not the center of the universe just because their made in the land of the "free"
:?

apogee may not be the center of the universe but it sure sounds good....

"apogee may not be the center of the universe but it sure sounds good...."

and isn't that what it's all about ???

love your apogee's and i love whatever i got.... until i get something better!!