O.K. so I am waking up to the sobering reality that I will have to reacquaint myself with the products that are available today, and that no one is going to be able to say "buy X and all the problems dissappear" and that Cubase might still be the best option. I am expressing the general frustration of one who is struggling with unreliable gear. It is horribly frustrating to have hours evaporate in trying to get something to function.

Maybe my Cubase LE4 is just too old. How buggy is something like Cubase Essential? Maybe I only need to change one or the other (Cubase or the Firebox).

Of course I cannot buy a new program at 11:25pm, so I am back at it, trying to figure out what is going on. If I use the computer's AISO driver, I can always hear sound and see the meters jumping while in playback (playing back the miracle sample track that I somehow managed to record, but can no longer accomplish), which is almost a good thing -except my computers soundcard is sonically inadequate- and which leads me to believe my problems are rooted in the Firebox, because If I switch to the Firebox, I get no sound and no meters jumping, even after exhausting practically all button pushing options that present themselve to one groping in the dark while cursing the very ground that Presonus engineers walk on. Of course one cannot rule out the possibility that the one exact combination of pushed buttons that will get this thing to work is the one that is eluding me.

The problem may very well be Vista. It's not the best operating system.....actually it's about as far from a good operating system as could possibly be. Windows 7 is a large improvement but even then XP is still more stable when it comes to certain audio apps. 32 Bit Windows 7 may be better but running 64 bit right now I have some sync issues. I'm just testing out some new settings so we'll see where that goes. Make sure you're running the installer as Admin. Make sure you run it in XP compatibility mode.

Vista when tweaked contains more latency than XP but should not provide any significant impediment to recording. I've successfully used it and many professionally built DAWs by reputable companies were built using it. That said, it still has to be tweaked.

On the software side, not every DAW works well in a 64 bit environment. Hueseph is correct in that if you are working with "lite" versions of software then you may indeed run into more issues than not. I'm going to recommend you download Reaper 64 bit (free fully functional trial) and try that with your Firebox. You are going to have a major learning curve on any worthwhile DAW but Reaper isn't as difficult as some. Most importantly, it's written for a 64 bit environment. Then when it does work, pay the man the $60 donation for a license. Really.

Also, any DAW and any interface is capable of making a decent recording in the right hands on a tweaked computer so throw out any preconceptions you have on a name. Understanding signal path and mic placement are still the #1 goal. Tweaking a computer of any OS to work as a single purpose machine for recording is somewhere down the line.

Thanks for the replies. You will have to forgive the fact that my posts are bound to be exasperation with the gear, and do serve a purpose in causing me to continue to problem solve, just by talking things out loud.

I have made some progress. The main reason my Firebox was not communicating with my computer is that I was not disabling the computer's internal sound card driver. I remembered that I had to disable it in my previous round of recording days, because if both the Firebox driver and the computer's driver are enabled, the computer goes with the internal one. I will continue to struggle with this setup, and hopefully things will smooth out. It certainly would be easier to go with the gear I have instead of starting anew.

Ah huh! There is your primary problem! Your Firebox is communicating with your computer. You aren't. In any audio program that you use be it Steinberg, Adobe, Sony, et al., they will all default to the computers on board built-in soundcard not your external device. You must select within each recording program from what source you want it to record from. These settings are within the DAW audio programs. You can actually set the operating system to default to your external soundcard also. But if you turn on the computer without your external soundcard/interface, the computer will default back to its internal soundcard. This can be extremely infuriating to deal with and sounds like exactly what you're having problems with. For instance, on numerous occasions, I have used, 3 different USB audio interfaces along with the computer's own onboard piece of crap. This allowed for 8 tracks of real-time recording from 4 simultaneously functioning different internal & external audio cards (I'm only saying audio cards as a general expression, they're not cards). This required me to set each track to " see" each individual card and whether I wanted stereo or dual mono split between 2 tracks. So, I had to set EDIROL to record left channel to track 1, Mono. Right channel to track 2. M-Audio Transit left channel to track 3. Transit right channel to track 4. Digidesign M-Box 2, stereo to track 5. Crappy onboard soundcard to left channel to track number 6 & right channel to track 7. Now telling the audio program to do that requires a deep understanding of the audio program and not so much the computer. The computer settings are a different matter altogether. For instance, no screen saver's, no virus programs, non-dynamic file paging/disk caching, no other programs running in the background, period. So if this is a computer you are surfing the Internet on, playing games on, using for everything on, you may want to set up a different user list. This will allow jmm22internet to use it for the Internet. Then when you restart jmm22record to utilize your audio programs and jmm22games for just those purposes. With this information hopefully, your frustrations will turn into jubilations. I'm a really good experienced engineer and I'm Jewish so I'm frequently enjoying Jewbilations in my recording prowess.

Bastardizing the English language as best as possible
Mx. Remy Ann David

Mind you, I might have premature in thinking I had a handle on this one point of connection. Indeed, solving the driver issue allowed the Firebox to work, but it is still outrageously unreliable. It stops working more often than it works. When it quits, it then it requires an incomprehensible combination of putting the computer to sleep, unpugging the fire cable, or unpowering the Firebox. I am back to thinking I have a lemon.

Have you changed the USB cable to a new cable yet? If that achieves nothing then you might have a bad USB port. Also, you need to tweak your computer. I doubt you've done any tweaking of the OS yet. Also, you cannot reasonably expect to record to the same hard drive as your operating system. You need a completely separate drive preferably firewire or internal or eSATA. Check the sticky at the top of the Computers forum for links to tweaking recommendations.

Thanks for the reply. The Firebox is a firewire connection as opposed to USB, but I suppose I could try another firewire cord. While I can certainly see the benefit of tweaking, and doing all those things that you indicate as necessary for maintaining a DAW (which I will do so at some point) I cannot even get this Firebox to stay in contact while just listening to music or watching something on Youtube. I am confused as to how the tweaking could possibly make the Firebox stay connected when it cannot do so under the most modest demands that are not recording related. This is what leads me to believe that the instability has root in the Firebox or its related software, but I readily admit this is just a conjecture.

Firewire cables are just as susceptible to failure as USB. You might have to tweak your OS TO get the Firebox to connect. You can't go halfway to solving the problem.

I've run across a lot of crummy FireWire & USB cables that were even brand-new. Nothing like an XLR with a locking pin I always say. I can't stand these awful FireWire/USB connections. Even the old serial & parallel connections/connectors had screws on them to make sure they were well seated & tight. And if you can find goldplated connectors, that's a lot better and worth the investment. Yup, it could be the Firebox but I can tell you that I have opened up some of PreSonus' boxes. I must say, I was very impressed with its beautifully rugged & build quality. Really quite something in comparison to many others. Quite impressive and I've been inside a lot of pieces of equipment throughout my years. One of the worst build qualities was the TASCAM DA 88's, of which I had 3 which was an investment of over $12,000 in 1993! Terribly flimsy a total opposite of the Ampex/Studer/Scully/3M like quality. Nothing like in comparison to their previous analog machines which were all built like little Ampexes. So while there could be something wrong with your box, I really think it's something with your computer or cord. Think about it. Some of us actually know what we're talking about. I am of course the first to admit that I'm probably the least educated of anybody on this site. But 40 years of experience in the broadcast & recording industry teaches you a few things. Just a few.

One of the few
Mx. Remy Ann David

Think about it. Some of us actually know what we're talking about.

--------------------------------------

Hmmm... Make no mistake, I will try another cord because you and others say I should, otherwise I would not be posting for help from experienced people :smile:. But that does not mean one is not allowed to wonder how a cord problem could manifest this way. I mean there have been times where there was dead calm, i.e.. no movement of me or the cord, yet it stops functioning just like that. If there was some correspondence between movement or jiggling of the cord or the computer, it might be easier to understand. I also tried some Caig cleaner on the contacts, with no improvement. I will try to pick up another cord within a few days as the next solution. Unfortunately, the closest well stocked music store is a two hour round trip away.

Here is the deal with wire-usb, firewire, audio, electric, whatever. As it passes current it can and will heat up. As it heats up it will expand. If there is a break in the wire or a very thin spot that is ready to break, that heating and contraction will eventually separate the wire. Sometimes not enough to completely cut the connection but many times enough to ruin any chance of data pass through or TCPIP lock. In the case of electric wire whether Romex or 250 MCM when this happens usually the magic smoke leaves the premises. In the case of flimsy very thin data cables like USB or Firewire, they just stop working reliably.

This is the primary reason to learn to wrap mic cables; electric cables; and yeah verily, firewire and usb cables. The usual consumer idea of wrapping them as tight as possible around the device or bundled in as tight of a figure 8 as possible is the inadvertent means of destroying said cables.

All this aside, you will still need to tweak the OS even if you verify a good cable (which you can really only do with a cable tester anyway).

I'll probably get a lot of crap for this, but... If you're really serious about making a clean break and starting over? Get a Mac.

Garageband is included for free and totally adequate for getting started. All current desktop Macs have firewire ports built-in (albeit FireWire800 these days, so you'll probably need to get a $12 FireWire400->FireWire800 adapter in order to plug in your FireBox).

After you outgrow Garageband, you can upgrade to Logic Express of Logic Pro and still be able to use your Garageband project files.

Geez John do they make USB & FireWire testers? They must? I've never seen one. Too bad you don't find that stuff today on other cable testers that accommodate 1/4 inch, RCA, XLR after all, we're only looking at continuity here.

Two hours round trip for a cable? It would be less expensive to order it over the Internet but maybe you don't get mail delivery where you are? You still need to make those tweaks to the operating system it's imperative. All power savings off. All screen savers off. All virus programs off. Paging file, same fixed large and small size 1 1/2 times the size of your physical RAM.

Here's another question for you. At what bit depth & sample rate are you running at? Everybody wants this ultimate fidelity bull crap for what? Rock 'n roll? Make sure you're running the thing at 16 bit/44.1 kHz like a CD. This may be particularly necessary if you're trying to playback from the OS hard drive. Otherwise you should be playing back from a dedicated hard drive internal/external USB, FireWire or SATA. And set your performance settings to background services & system cache which is obtainable through control panels/system/advanced/performance. Stop being a silly newb and do it. Listen to your mother!

Another mother
Mx. Remy Ann David

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This one does USB cables. Somewhere I remember seeing a 1394 tester. Markertek maybe.

vttom: The kinds of issues described by the OP are going to happen regardless of the computer. The Firebox is a workhorse for Presonus and works on every OS I've ever tried both Windows and Mac.

ahhh yes. And at Wally world none the less.
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Well, I just got some bad news and some good news. I had a inquired about this problem in parallel over at the the Presonus forums. They get just a fraction of the traffic here, so I was not expecting much, but lo, a nice fellow directed me to a utility that analyzes chipset driver compatibility.

The bad news is that my HP Pavillion computer chipset is not compatible with Presonus' DICE drivers, but the good news is that the unending frustration is over, and the cause of my misery now has a face. While my Firebox and I must go our separate ways, I will be making an obligatory call to Presonus customer service to ask how they can make a piece of equipment that is incompatible with the #1 best selling notebooks made by the world's largest computer manufacturer.

I'm pretty sure you can get a firewire card for your laptop. The express card slots are often well disguised. Which model laptop do you have?

It's a HP HDX 16-1140US. I think it is of the Pavillion familiy of computers. It does have an Express card 54 slot, but I have never used it. Are you saying that with an external card of some kind, I can bypass the computers Firewire port and chipset?

For example:

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It turns out that Presonus only recommends one (yes one) particular manufacturer's card as fully compatible. It happens to be three times the cost of that one. Given that I would be a third of the way towards a new interface with the purchase, I have decided to call it a day, again, and start anew. After copious reading, I even decided on my next device, a Focusrite Saffire 6 USB. Of course there is no perfect device, and research will reveal good and bad in all of them, but this appears to be a good a choice all around.

Thanks for all the replies. I will make some effort to report on my impressions of the Saffire, particularly from the vantage point of one who needs a reliable and simple to use device, which includes just about all new recording enthousiasts.

The Dice chipset is absolute crap and should have never been used by Dell or HP or Toshiba or any of the other mass produced companies that did use it. I've made it work but it takes all the joy from life.

Hueseph is correct. You need to by an Express Card firewire adapter. Either a 54 or a 34 will work. It MUST have a Texas Instruments chipset. I don't know what was recommended by Presonus but I've used SiiG cards for years. Check out whatever it is you do purchase as specs change. Some SiiG cards don't have TI chipsets. Do NOT get a combo card. Get a 1394a (400 speed) only card only. That's all the Firebox can utilize anyway. Sorry I was late to the party. I've been swamped.

Oh, and you will have to get a new Firewire adapter no matter what other box you decide to purchase. NONE of them will work happily with the Dice chipset.

The Saffire is USB instead of firewire, so I am not anticipating problems, but I may well send a precautionary query to Focusrite, to confirm compatibility with my computer.

Not a fan of any so called interface that is USB 1.1. If you want to go USB then you need a USB 2.0 interface or better. Or if you are patient, USB 3.0 is just on the horizon.

Hmmm... I must confess that I would not know the difference between 1.1 2.0 or USB golden Ratio, but this is practically the newest released product in its class, meant for today's new recording enthousiasts. Surely it is adequate. I mean could they really release a product that is inadequate even for its intended use? Is it possible that the nature of the function of this connection is such that USB 1.1 is sufficient? Bear in mind, someone buying one of these units is intending it for simpler home recording projects.

What kind of limitations do you think it will have?

If you want to believe the Focusrite web propaganda. The Focusrite line is no better than the Presonus products, and you better believe that you don't want a USB device that is 1st generation no matter when it is released. And what makes you think it is anywhere near the latest technology?!? Companies love to repackage old gear into newly marketed boxes. That way they don't actually have to do R&D on new products.

Look. You've been complaining about issues with your Firebox that would have been solved in 10 minutes by purchasing a proper firewire card. Now you are going to swap those issues with 1st Gen USB problems. Do what you want, but it would seem advice is not what you desire. You want affirmation of your predetermined choice.

I am not going on Focusrite's PR at all. My affirmationless decision was based on reading as many online forum discussions as I could find on this device, once I had narrowed down to a few comparable products. Now I will admit that two days ago, I had many reservations about having to research to death any decision I would make, and I had hoped to have my next configuration presented to me on a zinc platter, but once I made the decision to plunge back in, things were not as bad I thought.

There appears to be many favourable opinions on this new (or newly repackaged) device. From a statistical point of view, the ratio of good to negative is higher for the Saffire than it is for other similarly priced devices. A few Firebox owners had even been specific enough to note that the quality of the Saffire preamps is much higher, as evidenced by less noise, more gain, etc. Is it possible that all positive reviewers have tin ears? Maybe, but without first my hand experience with any given device, one has to start somewhere.

There was also a compelling technical explanation in another forum that challenged the notion that USB 1.1 was incapable of performing satisfactorily in this very specific application. It was based on the idea that with a two input device like the Saffire 6 USB, it is impossible to input more data than the USB line can handle, by virtue of the small number of inputs. Some questioned this with the fact there might be dozens of tracks played back, but it was duly noted that even 50 tracks are going to go to monitoring as a simple stereo mix. Even with my inexperience in audio recording, the arguments made sense and were compelling. They were also backed up by many reports from satisfied users who themselves questioned the USB capability before buying the Saffire.

As far as the proper Firewire card solution goes, as I mentioned previously, Presonus tech support explicitly says only one (yes, only one) card will work reliably, the "Startech EC13942". I did start down the path of obtaining this one elusive model that costs three times as much as other Expresscards, but decided to change boxes for a host of reasons that had nothing to do with the excellent and much appreciated advice given to me by you and others. Having said that, one also has to face the reality that setting up something as complex and choice laden as a DAW and hardware requires many decisions to be made where there is conflicting opinion from various people, many of whom appear qualified to render good insight. To be clear, my hunch is that you are right that USB 1.1 might be inadequate for you or other seasoned people with greater demands, but I think it will fit the bill financially and technically for my more modest requirements at this time.

I hope you and others will not take any decision of mine as a rejection. I am tremendously grateful for being able to ask and receive the opinions of more experienced people, and am just as likely to follow exactly the specific advice that might be graciously offered the next time I ask.

Don't let the short bursts of text that I am stealing time to type dissuade you from questioning. I'm just really short handed for the business level I currently have and I'm brusk/terse (or Salty whichever) anyway as a matter of nature.

In regards Focusrite: They made their name off of a past generation of preamps and devices that were out of site good. They no longer produce these really with the Focusrite RED being the exception. Their low/middle end devices are certainly adequate for a beginning home project room but more people like them because they say Focusrite on them than really know what the old school Focusrite was all about.

If you want to go USB, and that is certainly a viable option, you would be highly advised to research the EMU interfaces. These are very very high quality boxes that are capable of quality work at whatever level you need provided they have enough input/output for the project in question. Really, it's the last bit which prevents them from being utilized more in high end studios in my opinion. Additionally their drivers are very stable and proven.

Thanks, I will investigate the EMU more closely before making a final decision.

And remember if you have an erection lasting more than 4 hours? Call your doctor or me.

Remy Ann David

Four hours? Mine last indefinitely

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My Digidesign M-Box 2 is USB 1.1 with no latency pass-through monitoring. It's good for up to 4 simultaneous tracks if also fed from its SPDIF inputs from another outboard A 2 D converter. Certainly adequate for overdubs but not adequate for tracking more than 4. It's not horrible just a little underwhelming and I never use the microphone inputs. So I think it's adequate? I'm not wild about it. I only got it for the ProTools and to have a balanced interface with my Neve although I don't think it really appreciates my Neve? I ground at the source and so am ground lifted to the Digidesign Box and it doesn't like that coming from my output transformer. It's a ground reference issue I believe on their transformer less inputs? It's bad when your tiny unbalanced M-Audio Transit has less input clipping than the Digidesign M-Box 2 when fed from the Neve. So since I also have "M-Powered ProTools" I might let that Digidesign box go? But it's still an adequate balanced interface.

What the heck am I talking about?
Mx. Remy Ann David

I forgot to check that link... LOL! Yup, I think you need to see a doctor? A doctor of audio. Someone that knows how to professionally disassemble your erection. I know I'm a little kinky but I would like to see the video. I want to see your erection pumping a way to better audio.

All aboard!
Mx. Remy Ann David