Originally posted by John Thomas Milhorat:
I am looking into these interestingly low priced mics as an option, particulatly the C3.

Does anyone have any dibs on the SP line?

Thanks in advance.

forgive my ignorance/...what are the "C3" and "SP line" ?

Not at all, they are some what of a mystery and not many know about them.

They are "Studio Project" brand. They make thier mics in China and they are designed in to Classic German specs, in the tradition you understand.

The C1 goes for $230.00 and it is said how it truly compares to a U87.

Check em out at:http://www.studioprojects.com

Let me know what you think! They have reviews by mix and a few others.

Wait, that address is: http://www.studioprojectsusa.com

Hi John, if you want 'horses mouth' info about Studio Projects you're in luck because Alan Hyatt, the owner, is a moderator down in the Designing The Future forum, here -

(Dead Link Removed)

The concensus among us bottom feeders is that the SP C1 is a very nice vocal mic that can also sound good on acoustic gtr and is for the price an exceptional value, but no it does not sound exactly like a U87 as the rumours stated.
The C3 is supposedly the multi pattern version of the C1, and so far I have heard nothing but favourable comments.

Sounds good to me. No, I did not think thet were like the U87, just compared to similar atrabutes.

I'll have to ask Alan about them.

I recall Alan saying he will be absent for a few days due to commitments at NAMM.

Without wanting to start the type of flame war that developed elsewhere over SP mics, I will say this much.........I have owned a C1 for close to 1 year. Used it mainly on vocals and acoustics with absolutely no complaints. I have used it along with a U87 and NO, THEY DON'T SOUND ALIKE, although they do appear to be similar in some respects.

However I would strongly advise people to try ANY mic and make their own judgement before purchasing.

:cool:

Originally posted by John Thomas Milhorat:
Sounds good to me. No, I did not think thet were like the U87, just compared to similar atrabutes.

I'll have to ask Alan about them.

Hey John,

The comparison thing has been a rough road. The design of the C1 and C3 were meant not to sound like an 87. I think the 87 is a reasonably good mic, but not my favorite Neumann by all means.

Like all mics, everyone hears differently. The problem has been a bunch of pretty well respected people have made claim that it sounds like an 87... I have not, but what do you do when someone says it does. Do you discount them as lame and call the names. Well a whole bunch of people have done that, or do you say, wait a minute, maybe if some credible people are making this claim, it might be worth checking out. That's for you to decide.

My position is is based on one issue only, and that is the mic itself. The C1 and C3 are what they are. If you hear them as a U87 sounding mic...wonderful, if not, that is perfectly fine. I think the C1 and C3 stand on their own as very well built mics with good quality control and consistency. Certianly well worth the price you would pay for them. The C1 is $100.00 less than the U87 Shockmount, and the C3 is $50.00 more than the U87 Shockmount. If you get a good recording from either of them, then you just got yourself a good deal.

The fact that some will compare them is an honor for me, but I don't count because I own the company. So, based on all the good press and comments we get, and that we have sold a good deal of these mics, I hope this would mean that there is something to them as far as a good quality and good sounding mic. Are they a U87? Well, does that matter? If you want a U87, you buy a U87. If you want a good mic and have a budget, you get a C1 or a C3, and yes, there are many other mics on the market to look at. Certianly the Studio Projects is not the only company out there, but you won't do badly buying one. Either of the C1 or C3 will add to your locker, but will not break the bank doing so! :D

Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group

Alan, well said! :tu: :tu: :tu:

I own a C1 mic and I love it. I've used it on male and female vocals, electric guitar, acoustic guitar, drum room and snare under all with excellent results.

I have done comparisons with other mics I have. Even on vocals, it ofent beats out some much more expensive mics in my collection.

I don't own a U87, but I did have a chance to talk into both mics in a side by side comparison set up at AES. It is not "the same", whatever that means, but on-axis at least the C1 does carry a lot of that "expensive" sound. I never tell my clients what I paid for it!

Unless I hit the lottery or something, the next LDC I buy will probably be another C1.

Interesting Joe, thanks for your input!

I am definatly getting 2, maybey a C1 or a C3?

Cheers,

The C3 just plain sounds better than the C1... you can hear a difference on the free CD he has, and it shows on every preamp... the C3 through the 1072 sounds the best, it really has a better sound that is just plain nice as compared to even the Focusrite Red, which is my other favorite pre on that CD. Ask him for it, he may still have some.

Since my original post in this thread, I have used my C1 as "Room/Ambient Mic" for drums, mic'd a bass cabinet, a 100 watt tube combo and a Marshall quad..............none of the amps were being driven particularly hard BUT with careful mic placement and using a semi dead isolation booth for the amps, so far we have achieved more than satisfactory results.

:cool:

Tubedude, are you referring to the comparison w/the C3 in Carnoid?

I don't usually do this but I have to go on a rant about this. Has any one considered that these things are made in CHINA? Everytime I hear "Made In China", I think of child or slave labor. In the interest of fairness can anyone comment on the working conditions these things are manufactured under? Shades of Kathy Lee! Aren't we are suposed to be more sensitive to these type of things, being from the artistic side of life? I personally don't want that kind of energy disssipated into my music. Not to mention cheap labor takes jobs away from hard working people who actually get paid and support their familys. The song goes, "Keep On Rockin' In The FREE WORLD!" Fats

Originally posted by Cedar Flat Fats:
I don't usually do this but I have to go on a rant about this. Has any one considered that these things are made in CHINA? Everytime I hear "Made In China", I think of child or slave labor. In the interest of fairness can anyone comment on the working conditions these things are manufactured under? "Keep On Rockin' In The FREE WORLD!" Fats

RIGHT ON :tu:
seriously....a good point.

Originally posted by Alan Hyatt:
The C1 is $100.00 less than the U87 Shockmount, and the C3 is $50.00 more than the U87 Shockmount
Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group[/QB]

:) I just found it sooo funny! :p SHOCKMOUNT hahahahahah!!!

sorry :roll:
Ralf

On the human rights issues... I asked a friend about this before I bought my first Studio Projects product. My friend was one of the founders of rock festivals for a human rights group. He said the jobs at 797 in China are the kinds of jobs we want to encourage. These jobs require a skilled work force, more humane treatment and a living wage.

Shit, on the basis of that.......I'll take three (since the slaves seem to be in good spirits today!)

Wheres the wine?

All hail "The great White way!"

I have a C3 as well as two of their new VTB-1 Mic pre-amps.

The C3 continues to impress me, the more I use it. You just can't come close for the price.

Bowisc

Steve,
I am not familiar with the term "797" but I assume it refers to the place or area in China that this equipment is manufactured. While I admire your having the heart to even inquire about this (it wouldn't occur to most people), let me point out that there is no free lunch. Either this gear is junk or somwhere there is a huge cost savings happening in the manufacture of these gizmos, as is reflected in their price point. The manufacturer must be saving on materials, shipping, general overhead (real estate, taxes etc.) or labor. Most likely it's labor as most buisness managers are too unimaginitive to look anywhere else for ways to increase profit. It's always the easiest thing to go for. "We've got to cut labor costs!" Even if these jobs pay better than others in China, it probably doesn't hold a candel to what workers at Neumann or AKG are earning in Europe. The Chinese government is rabidly dedicated to communisim and The U.S. has constantly been in some type of confrontation with them for over 50 years between Korea, Viet Nam and Taiwan. We've got to stop building up our enemies before we fight them, just so wealthy business people can make a profit. Fats

First of all, Fats, If China was "dedicated to Communism", there would be no free market activity as in 797 Audio. Secondly, the price of a meal In China Is slightly(sarcasm) less than a meal In Germany, so forget trying to equivicate the Two. Finally, since I am not payed a "humane" enough wage to buy a U87, my exploited self will( already have :p )bought a C1 and believe that the secret to It's sound is In the sweat which gets Into the diaphram (BTW, do we know where these old, venerable, German co.'s REALLY get their gold for their mics? :p ) during the 16th hour of the kids shift...

Alex,
You said;
First of all, Fats, If China was "dedicated to Communism", there would be no free market activity as in 797 Audio.
My reply;
Yes there would. China wants to build it's industrial base to be exploited for Communist dictatorship. This is how Marxisim (as envisioned by Karl Marx) is supposed to occur and the lack of this type of evolution is why the system in The Soviet Union failed. The industrial base and means of production has to be established before you can theoretically evolve into "true" socialisim.
.............................................................................................................................................
You said;
Secondly, the price of a meal In China Is slightly(sarcasm) less than a meal In Germany, so forget trying to equivicate the Two.
My reply; Regardless of the price of a meal, in Europe they aren't bringing out the tanks and squashing the peoples demands for democracy. What can be equivicated is the standard of living in Europe and China. Where would you rather live?
............................................................................................................................................. You said;
Finally, since I am not payed a "humane" enough wage to buy a U87, my exploited self will
(already have) bought a C1 and believe that the secret to It's sound is In the sweat which gets Into the diaphram (BTW, do we know where these old, venerable, German co.'s REALLY get their gold for their mics? ) during the 16th hour of the kids shift...
My reply No argument there, nothing is perfect, we all would like to earn a little more than we do. At least with Capitalisim it's up front. Greed is a major motivation. For myself I am not comfortable with getting somthing at the costs of others when I can avoid it and sometimes I have to suffer a little / pay for my idealisim. As far as where the gold comes from, why South Africa of course.....Fats :D

Ok, Ok, Ok, I'm scum......I have got to admit that today I was checking out the "Designing The Future" forum and I was enticed by the promise of a "Studio Projects" 8 channel mic pre amp with a 2-bus mix out at an $800 street price. Drool..,darn it, I hate it when this happens... Ohh I really want one or two...what to do?, me and my big mouth..........I really wish this stuff was manufactured anywhere else than CHINA! I'd buy it even if it was made in Hell............Fats

Originally posted by Cedar Flat Fats:
Ok, Ok, Ok, I'm scum......I have got to admit that today I was checking out the "Designing The Future" forum and I was enticed by the promise of a "Studio Projects" 8 channel mic pre amp with a 2-bus mix out at an $800 street price. Drool..,darn it, I hate it when this happens... Ohh I really want one or two...what to do?, me and my big mouth..........I really wish this stuff was manufactured anywhere else than CHINA! I'd buy it even if it was made in Hell............Fats

HEY Fats, Just do like Behringer, and keep telling yourself it's made in china with GERMAN parts...Harry :D

Masternfool wrote;

HEY Fats, Just do like Behringer, and keep telling yourself it's made in china with GERMAN parts...Harry

LOL, he said the "B" word! Ohh, don't get me started, I think I may have pissed off enough people.....Fats :o

Fats,

My 2¢:

Think Global, Act Local.

I just got my SP VTB1 Mic pre. Works great. Saved a ton.

Could I afford to send MarloThomas or Prison Fellowship or CCF a few beans every month if I was paying $2,500/channel for preamps?

Not to mention the guy who thinks he is scrounging all the Pepsi cans I put in my recycling bin for him every week -- and could be cashing in at 2 for a nickel so I could buy German mikes sputtered with spurious gold. (I drink way too much Pepsi.)

Americans spend more on dogfood than on foreign aid. Should our animals starve so other nations' children can eat? Or should a world system evolve to do away with all inequities so that no one will have a Mercedes -- or an empty stomach -- or more children than they can afford to feed? Tough questions, to be sure.

Sure, I feel bad for Chinese diaphragm stretchers and lathe operators and solder jockeys. When they feel bad enough for themselves to overthrow the system that has them oppressed and forge a new life by the labor of their hands and in the freedom they have fought and maybe died for -- well, maybe they will make superior microphones and maybe they will cost a fortune and maybe you 'n me will buy one when we find the cash.

Until then, a bowl of rice here, a Pepsi can there, a buck to Marlo Thomas. Even a very little hope is better than none at all. Even a rotten job is better than starving.

Better to light a really scrawny, feeble candle than curse the darkness, imo.

RW <====<<< Thinking of stiffing the Pepsi can guy to pay for some Stephen Paul microphones...

:cool:

Robert,
Point well taken and everybody else, please keep the arguments to buy this stuff coming. I really want a couple of those 8 channel preamps and I need to be convinced that it's ok to buy a couple of them. Ease my guilt for even considering this (especially after my rant, man I feel hypocritical.....loser!) By the way R.W., I really enjoy your posts. Some great info / points of view delivered with some amusing humor. Keep it coming.
:tu: Fats

Aww, Garsh, Mickey... T'wuddn' nuthin' !

At the risk of getting a spam ticket -- (and if you like football) check out my column at:

http://www.Ramsfootball.com

where I spout off 2-3 times a week under the moniker d' keyboard, "LA Bob"

Just look for my avatar cartoon.

RW

At the risk of getting a spam ticket -- (and if you like football) check out my column at:

http://www.Ramsfootball.com where I spout off 2-3 times a week under the moniker d'keyboard,

"LA Bob" Just look for my avatar cartoon.

RW

Hot damn, I knew it! I can smell a real writer a mile away. I will be dropping by to check it out even though I'm not a Rams fan. Where I come from it's the Seahawks......yeah,yeah,yeah, I know.......Fats

Cool to see this turn into a Social/Political commentary as well.

As of July 2002, China provides over 60% of ALL consumer audio labor. You don't see the buy USA signs in Wal Mart as we use to. It is most difficult to buy any consumer electronics without Chinese involvement.

Two points.

I am against slave labor. Period.
I am always for the advancement of a culture or civilazation.

Guess what would happen if we were suddenly cut off from China?

Our retail industry would go broke. A huge percentage of retail dollars that stay here in the good ole' USA are made from the distribution, retailing and basic moving of Chinese goods.

I auditioned a Chinese built power amp. Build quality is 100%. Rock solid. Sounds nice too! Does it cut the other economys out of jobs? Sure it does, but the market and job sector has to shift from manufacturing to sales and shipping...where we are tops. Unfortunantly, we have priced ourselves out of certain markets.

I have even see the Chinese products rebadged with high end manufactures names and proudly presented.

My Humble opinion of all of this is, I simply have no control over marketing of major consumer goods. I expect that anything you buy should have a return clause through the retailer (you pay an extra 20% for it anyway) if I am not pleased with the product. I can almost gurantee the motherboard in your computer was made in China...go look inside. I do not care the brand. It probably (96%) is.

As far Communisum, the model has not worked well for the masses as in LIBERTY. The top are really rich and then you have the low class. Middle class comunisum is low mid class at best. The govt. is totally in charge of your life. No trust in personal achievement. You are spoon fed. If you want a big steak, you have to share morsels. That is the communist way. Simple as it gets. Diversity is out the door. You are a brown shirt. Well I grow weary of politics. I agree with govt. roles in society..but wholesale communisum, right or wrong is probably not our call to correct. We can lead, but not make them drink..remember that one with the horse?

]

Um, not sure -- but I remember this one:

" Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day... "

" TEACH a man to fish and he will buy a bass boat and drink beer all summer... "

;)

Speaking of fishing, I am beginning to regret opening this can of worms. I can recall when it all started.............. (envision everything going wavy, as if in a dream)...........
"Mad John" wrote

" I am looking into these interestingly low priced mics as an option, particularly the C3.

Does anyone have any dibs on the SP line?

Thanks in advance.

--------------------
Mad John
Zythum Studios"

The guy asks a perfectly innocent question and look where it all ends up. I am sure we all will rise or fall to our own comfort levels on this one and I say "If it makes you Happy....Then why in the hell don't you buy one? (sung to a Cheryl Crowe tune) No really, after reading other peoples opinions on this I have come to a different point of view. Will I buy these products? Probably not. Should that stop you from purchasing? Absolutely not! Unlike Bill Roberts I don't think it's..

"Cool to see this turn into a Social/Political commentary as well."

although I am the instigator, I think I may have "screwed the pooch" on this one.. I expected a few comments on the subject and then a return to the topic at hand, AUDIO! ( I'm used to folks ignoring my politicizing everything.) What can I say, I'm a political animal. My Bad......Fats

world wide trade [ie production in china] is great!

things to keep in mind:

1. the cost of living in china is dramaticaly lower than it is here.

2. my parents went there, and the chinese, culturaly, are a very modivated people. as are koreans, etc. not being racist--i love immigrants. they have the drive to better their situation in life by doing the kind of jobs americans [who have been here a bit longer] feel are below them. been in a cab or deli in NYC with any 3rd generation americans? thought not.

3. no one forces these people to work in these factories, rather they are allowed to by the dictitorial gov't, in one of its few moments of kindness.

[i'm tired of numbers]. they don't have the
same "standart of living" expectations we do. 1 and 2 car families are a norm here. they ride bikes happily. we love "personal space"--in china it is not rare for whole families to live together, many people to a home, and the like.

point is, more than 300 million people have been brought out of abject poverty in china because they were allowed to work. not forced. they work for the same reasons we do--we want the money, and the higher standard of living it provides us. if they didn't
make studio projects microphones, what would mean they could not provide food for their families.

free trade is the best thing that could ever happen to them--because free trade = freedom. getting to keep what you work for is a hugely powerful idea, as is self owenership, and the freedom to choose where you wotk, etc. the more freedoms the chinese have, the sooner they will become a democratic society, all for the better for everyone [except poor little marxists]. basicaly, thirld world people need jobs too. you can't expect them to do nothing.

we are better at recording and intelectual property creation, so we do that. they are better at producing mics, so they do that. everyone is better off. cheap mics for you, rock, rap, and britney spears for the rest of the world!

god bless the free market!

yea, i'm a liberitarian. :)

read p. j. o'rourke's "eat the rich" and you will be too .

now--back to microphone shop talk.

[and forgive the typos, it's late]

Owen,

All fine and dandy, but it ain't FREE TRADE. Believe me, we are all being sold a bill of goods (no pun intended) both by so called capatalist systems and all those others. These systems are by and large in place for the benefit of the few. We are just being pacified by swaping cheaper and cheaper junk with each other. But consider this. What kinds of deals does the US extract for these so called free trade deals. That the receiving country has to allow McS**t to build their poison factories on every corner of every city. Or disney, or ....... (enter any major global corporation.)

No my friend, everything comes at a price. The frightening senario is what happens to all of us who are removed from any REAL form of production (food, housing etc.) when the sytem collapses. Perhaps we will get some handouts from the Chinese farmers - foreign aid anyone?

And don't even get me started on the Tibetan issue.

Peace,

Yorik

i have a c-1 mic too and i will say one thing. Studio projects dosn't try to "camoflage" the fact that its made it china. It has "797 audio" etched in the side of it. Thats one reason that i think the quality control is so good on them...they get their name on the damn thing (unlike other companies that have their mics done in china) and its a very good mic. maybe that causes them to take a little more time to make sure that line of mics is right

Hey fats....
if you REALLY want to see something you want read up on the stephen paul mic (in stephen pauls forum "this is so efing cool") alan hyatt is helping him make it happen. a world class mic that will no doubt raise the bar of quality and performance.

it may be the best mic ever produced and the price is estimated to be in the neighborhood of 1500 bucks.

i know there are some germans shaking in their boots right now (if they're not they should be)

I already have a good collection of mics, C12a ,U87,4033's SM7a, so fortunately I don't have to make that decision. I have received an email from Jim Williams who can mod my Yamaha MLA7 mic pre so I think I may have dodged the bullet on that one also. I'm glad I don't need to make a decision on this one now. I can just use what I have and leave it at that. I'll say one thing. In 5/10/15 years I'll be able to sell my vintage AKG and Neumann for what I paid for them or more... Nuff said Fats

Well I just spoke with Jim Williams about the upgrade on my Yamaha MLA7 mic pres. He told me his philosophy is a high slew rate , pure path, sonically transparent kind of approach. His stuff compares more with the Mellinia and Grace type of mic pres. Great, but not what I was hoping for. Wonderful for acoustic and classical but I record mostly Blues, R&B, Country and Pop. What I would really like to get is the API quad pre amps with the 2-bus. A little color and attitude. I'll most likely have the upgrade done anyway, it's not really that costly. I can always use them for bluegrass tracking. Is there anyone else that can soup these things up for me but with a bit more color? Fats

Originally posted by Cedar Flat Fats:
Is there anyone else that can soup these things up for me but with a bit more color? Fats

Post this question to Scott Dorsey over at rec.audio.pro. If anyone has an idea, I'll bet he does.

You may have to be prepared to send him a schematic of the Yamaha.

In 5/10/15 years I'll be able to sell my vintage AKG and Neumann for what I paid for them or more... Nuff said Fats

That may be something of a moot point. Based on past trends/history you're probably correct, but with continuing advances in mics and particularly considering the pending birth of Stephen Paul's "baby", it is always a possibility that today's holy grail of mics, may tomorrow, be just another old mic that can't match it with the new kids on the block. Guess you just have to hope they retain their "curio" value.

:)

Originally posted by Cedar Flat Fats:
I don't usually do this but I have to go on a rant about this. Has any one considered that these things are made in CHINA? Everytime I hear "Made In China", I think of child or slave labor.

Do you think of the same thing when you see "Made in USA"? Because conditions in many American plants are not exactly ideal: very low wages and enforced hours, not to mention unhealthy conditions. What about "Made in Mexico"? There, workers are exploited and toxins dumped like you wouldn't care to believe.

As this is off-topic I encourage you to do some reading on this if you are truly interested. I did lots when I was involved with Green politics and the truth is scary. Unfortunately bad conditions exist for workers all over. It is discrimination to assume that China is necessarily any worse than the Americas in this regard.