Not always, but if you flip the phase and the result is more low end, less of a thin sound, then you are golden.

Favorite mics to do top and bottom - 57 up, 441 down.
Right as rain, every friggin' time.

TO get a good snare sound, listen to Bent.

I agree, a great combination.

If you must, two 57s will work. But grab that phase switch and flip it and hope for a fatter, thicker sound.

Good luck,

Bob

I'll usually put the bottom mic within two or three inches of the strainer.

The top, wherever the drummer seems to contact the skin the most.
Kinda at a 40-50 degree angle, and I do not worry about the Hat.

I like bleed!

thanks for the responses....

yes, it does seem like bleed can be your friend in this situation....

8-)

"I'll usually put the bottom mic within two or three inches of the strainer.

The top, wherever the drummer seems to contact the skin the most.
Kinda at a 40-50 degree angle, and I do not worry about the Hat."

so you don't worry where the mics are pointed in relationship to each other?
hmmm, interesting...

I don't mean this to sound egotistical, but no, I don't worry about it.
The mics are pointed at the drum they are meant to pick up, and the snare that close to a diaphragm is way louder than the wonky hat is going to be (New Beat, Old Beat, thick, thin,etc.)...
I'm by no means the best, by any stretch, but my clients like the end result, and my bosses at the mouse house like my work, so why worry?

Did I mention that I very rarely use gates?

In fact, I don't think I've used a gate at all in 3 or 4 years...

bent wrote: Did I mention that I very rarely use gates?

In fact, I don't think I've used a gate at all in 3 or 4 years...

even on tom mics? hmmm, i guess you do like bleed.... :)

I always find I need to flip the phase on a snare mic. Often I flip the top mic rather than the bottom however, depending which sounds better mixed with the overheads.

bent wrote: Did I mention that I very rarely use gates?

In fact, I don't think I've used a gate at all in 3 or 4 years...

Hell, I haven't used one (for that application at least) in 10....
They don't help the drum sound, they kill it...

Yep.

A lot of people look at a drum kit as a bunch of different instruments grouped together. I like to look at it as one single instrument, each piece being equivalent to the strings on a guitar, or the keys on a marimba.

The first thing you want to do is get a good sound from the whole kit - a lot of the time, with a well tuned, well played kit (repititious info, I know) you will find that the overheads are all you need, the rest of the mics can accentuate the sound - and your faders (and bleed) can therefore be kept lower in the mix. Of course, in heavy metal, it's a little harder to get to that point as opposed to jazz, but that's the fun of it - and as I keep saying, this is all about having fun, first and foremost - for you, and for the people you're recording! I know that's hard to do when you have bills to pay, but... Keeping it fun, and experimenting, makes it easier for most of us to get motivated in the morning.

Sorry, didn't mean to go off on a wild tangent there, back to the point:

It's all in the placement of the mics, and the room - and not worrying.
You've gotta have a good kit, good player, and a good room to record in!
...And a drum key in your pocket, you're definitely gonna need it!