Originally posted by litenmupp:
Hi all,
I'm wondering if you can tell me how to obtain a drumsound simular to dark side of the moon, in particular the snare sound.
//Peter

Here's my guess. Two microphones situated in and around the drummers head or in back or to the side and a kick drum mic. I don't hear any room sound, so I'm guessing that they baffled the drums to cut down on the ambience. The rest is drum selection, tuning and the guy playing.

Thanks for the quick reply.
Yeah it sounds like they have dampen the snare to me too (was that what you meant?)as it doesn't have a ring. What do you usually use to dampen the snare? That rubber goo stuff or a wallet perhaps?

If you watch the Pink Floyd in Pompeii video, they have some good panning shots of the recording room at Abbey Road where they did Dark Side of the Moon. I haven't confirmed this, but you might be able to get some information about the drum mic techniques that way...

Just a suggestion...
Crimean

I am no drummer, and this tip is originally for dampening toms, but it might work for snare: Put cotton balls in the drum, that way you get more natural kind of dampening, instead of totally deadening the tone of the drum. More balls for more damping.

Juergen

Nice tips guys!
I also got a direct reply from Rick to my email that was right on. He suggested that hitting the snare pretty soft would give that sound. I tried it and he was right... Perfect example of how the player is more important than the gear. ;)

I once heard that they wrapped the snare with a towel to get that damp sound..like a think cloth as not to make it too thick. I heard this when I was attending Berklee College of Music in the Engineering classes. Just thought I'd throw in my $.02 worth
Peace
Opus

Ringo also frequently towelled his snare - whenever I am going for that "White Album"-type sound (think "Savoy Truffle") I use this technique...

Bruce

That's something I need to try... You mean towell as you use after the shower? (though I like to sun-dry :) ) Do you just let it hang off the edges or do you wrap it round tight? And also, how do you usually mic the snare and the rest of the drums for that ringo sound? Thanks!

The term I always heard was "tea towel" which I believe is thin linen like a cloth napkin.

I also seem to remember reading that the entire album was recorded using a single KM-84.

One KM-84 for the drums or for all the instruments??

Everything.

Alan Parson (who engineered DSOTM) said in his column at artistpro.com that they used an 86 (Neumann?) on the guitars. So there's one exception, but maybe they used the km-84 for a lot of things.

There was a nice interview at that site with you there as well Bob! It's nice beeing able to chat like this with highly experienced people like yourself. I'm surprised not more people take advantage of this forum.
Regards, Peter

Maybe it was a single 86 which would make a lot more sense!

An 86 is two 84 capsules mounted back to back with a switch to select just the front one for cardioid or both either in or out of polarity for omni or figure 8 respectively. I always suspected 86s had a bit more low-end than 84s but never had both available to use at the same time.

The 3/98 issue of Mojo magazine had a story on the making of Dark Side- it includes copies of track sheets for each of the songs, all of which include:

2- b/d (bass drum I assume, considering what's next)
3 & 4- drums
5- snare

No photos of the drum setup, I'm afraid.

In Mark Cunningham's "Good Vibrations", Alan Parsons is quoted as saying:

"With Floyd though, it always seemed to come together pretty quickly and anyway, I've never really changed my overall miking setup for drums, apart from a difference of snare mic here and there. I've mostly either used a Neumann 84 or 87, an AKG D20 on the bass drum, Coles 4038 ribbon mics for overhead, and 84s or 86s on the toms. But I've never used compression; it's just a pet hate of mine and I think it kills a lot of natural sound, especially on drums."

I've also read where Parsons never uses mics on bass cabinets, DI only. YMMV, I suppose.

Hey Lobstman thats interesting... I don't soppuse you could post the full track sheet for the song "any color you like"? Would be cool to see.

Another thing I was thinking about was how they make the tracks melt together as there are instruments playing over the track changes. Do they use one long tape for the entire album and let some tracks overlap between tracks etc.?

Cheers guys

Originally posted by Bob Olhsson:
I also seem to remember reading that the entire album was recorded using a single KM-84.

It sounds exactly like one mic from what I remember...I haven't listened to their old stuff in a few years. Is there at least some kind of stereo thing happening? I never have been too in love with the whole late 60's drum sounds (Hendrix, Cream, Zep I&II, etc...) IMO things starting sounding a whole lot better around '70 and after. I suppose it has to do with 16 tracks coming around. Maybe somebody could shed some light on this?? :confused:

Regards,
Nathan Eldred
Atlas Pro Audio, Inc.
http://www.atlasproaudio.com

Yeah...the 70's and the cocaine mixes!!! That definately brought a new era to recording...can that hi-hat be a little higher in the mix please!!
Opus :D

Originally posted by atlasproaudio:

It sounds exactly like one mic from what I remember...I haven't listened to their old stuff in a few years. Is there at least some kind of stereo thing happening? I never have been too in love with the whole late 60's drum sounds (Hendrix, Cream, Zep I&II, etc...) IMO things starting sounding a whole lot better around '70 and after. I suppose it has to do with 16 tracks coming around. Maybe somebody could shed some light on this?? :confused:

Interesting- I kind of think that when you get into the mid 70's or so, drums started sounding pretty bad- lots of damping, gating, and artificial tone through reverb. Obviously there are exceptions!

Houses of the Holy (1973) and Zep IV (1971)...I guess these are the exceptions though. What intrigues me though, is if Bonham's kit was mic'ed the same way every time (3-4 mics) how come those two albums sound a thousand times better than the first two?

Regards
Nathan Eldred
Atlas Pro Audio, Inc.
http://www.atlasproaudio.com

Very good point...

Best Regards,
Nathan Eldred
http://www.atlasproaudio.com

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bear's Gone Fission:
[QB]"The difference in Zep drums from album to album, if the micing was indeed the same, might have to do with the rooms. Wasn't IV done in some rented mansion with the kit in the front hallway? I dunno, I been off of Zeppelin for some time, so I'm not the obsessive to ask about this."

As to John Bonham's drum sound on the Led Zeppelin Albums; If you study their catalog in total and check out liner notes, add to that some imformation from books and (in my case) some info from some of the people who recorded some of it you'll notice that there are two (2) basic "Led Zep Drum Sounds"
1. Tracks recorded in England(i.e. "Headley Grange"). The most famous example being "When The Leavey Breaks"- the intro of which, probably being one of the most sampled loops of all time - characterized by distant micing (in this case: Over heads on the second floor mezzanine WAY over head of the drums, which were in the stone foyer of "Headley Grange"(a mansion that Led Zeppelin rented to record Led Zeppelin IV). This is the sound most people associate whith Led Zep.
2. The other drum sound, one people forget, are on the tracks (usually) that were recorded in America...as on Led Zeppelin III for instance. They are more of your standard close mic'd kit sort of thing. Not All ambient. Although from what I understand, Bonham never let people get their mic's too close.