(Dead Link Removed)

Actually, I think the shells are way down the list in factors contributing to recorded drum sound. Good heads, tuned correctly (a Drum Dial really helped me improve here) top quality cymbals (where the best is barely good enough) Most of all a good room. Those are the things I see as most important.

Thanks. I also have a Drum Dial and like it. I also have some expensive heads and dropped 1K on ReadyTraps + Roxul(+FSK) for acoustic treatment.
My mics are decent (d112 + at3035 kick, 57s snare/toms, 2 C1000 overhead), my pre is a rented Digimax, and my A/D is Delta 1010.

So with the budget Westbury, I do get the impression the shells are now exactly what's holding me back (at least that's my hope!).

Thanks for the suggestion on the Mapex and cymbals. I've seen some good deals on used Sabian AAX on craigslist that might be nice. Other tips?

The O.A.R. drummer has the sort of drum sound your describing I think. He uses a Maryland Drumset. I don't know what sizes or what kind of wood he uses though....

I think you might want a fusion tom set, which is 10", 12", and 14" toms.

Also, from what I've heard of Yamaha sets, they always sound nice and punchy.

MAPLE.

i love maple for drums.

Here's my opinion.

If you want a cheap set that can sound good, go Yamaha. I have a stage custom nouveau kit that puts a lot of DW kits to shame. With that said, I'm also a professional touring drummer, tech, and audio engineer. I know exactly what to do to get the most of my drums. As far as sizes are concerned there are a couple schools of thought. I base it around your playing preference. If you want a big rock sound, get big drums. If you play with your heads tight, get bigger drums to compensate. If you play with your heads loose, you can go a bit smaller and still be alright. As far as woods go. Birch will give you a touch more bottom and top end than maple straight out of the box, however your head choices will directly effect the sound of the drums. As far as drum dials or tension tuners... Don't trust them. They work on the premise that the drum is perfectly round and there is only kind of drum on this planet that is 100% true, that's carbon fiber. Acrylics and even metal will warp over time. Carbon is the only true material for 100% round shells.

My kits are as follows.
All sizes Width x Depth

yamaha stage custom Nouveau (progressive rock kit)
10x8, 12x10, 14x12, 16x14, 22x18, 14x6.5

Rocketshells carbon fiber kit (rock kit)
12x8, 14x12, 16x14, 18x16, 24x20, 14x8 (snare)

custom kit I built.
12x10, 13x11, 16x14, 14x5, 22x16

Definately birch

If all you are using it for is recording then i would definately get a birch kit. I have owned both a maple kit and i own a birch kit now. I had maple pacific drums that sounded pretty good had decent attack alot of resonance and recorded pretty well. But i recently got Birch dws that have way more attack but less resonance, the record extremely well and its easy to get eqs for them.

Id go with birch.

Birch is definitely your studio wood, and you can definitely get yourself a set of birch DWs. Not that maple is going to sound bad by any means - maple is simply the all-around warm wood sound, whereas birch is going to be a bit punchier. Yamaha Recording Customs are also great studio drums. I'm not sure if I would really recommend a Tama Rockstar - definitely not the new models, maybe the old ones.
Tom size is all relative to what you're playing. You won't see any jazz drummer sitting behind an 8/10/12/14/16/22 setup. Good, all-around sizes (excluding snare) are either your 4 piece traditional setup (12x10, 13x11, 16x16, 22x18) or a 4 piece fusion setup (10x9, 12x10, 14x11, 22x18). For studio recording, I'd think a fusion setup would be more up your alley, considering that these bigger drums are harder to work with, and honestly, the sizes of a traditional kit have just never made much sense to me. As far as the snare goes, if you take the one that comes with the set, you'll most likely end up with a 14x6, maybe 14x5.5, but if you want to get a seperate snare, look into Pork Pie, Ludwig Acrolite/Black Beauty, Tama (especially copper), Mapex Black Panthers, Pearl Masterworks.
Taking another look at your budget, if you're looking to buy a brand-new birch or maple kit for around $1000, you might want to look at the Sonor Force 2007/3007 (2007 being birch, 3007 being maple). It represents the top-end of intermediate drumsets, with solid hardware, 100% birch or maple shells, and then your standard 45 degree bearing edges and normal shell sizes, triple-flanged hoops on the toms (not the case on the Tama's, which are most likely diecast, giving you a more focused, but less open, sound).

I'm not a drummer but have been hearing them for a long time. I really dislike DW kits.

The best kit I ever heard was the old 1960's Ludwigs. Gretsch and Rodgers of that era were very nice kits too and that's what I hear in my head when I think drums.

Not DW, yuck. I played with a few guys who had DW kits and they sounded less musical, sterile. I never liked the sound of a Tama set either, just not a warm organic sound like the old Ludwigs.

That's coming from the guy who stands next to drummers in bands for 35 years, I've heard it all. Even Hal Blaine used Ludwigs as far as I know.

So I would go with maple as they are probably more versatile. But what do I know, I'm a guitar player and just learned how to play some drums this week.

Modern Gretsch drums still retain their 30 degree bearing edges, rather than the standard 45 degree, which does result in that warm, fat, broader, vintage sound. However, not so versatile for a whole lot of musical applications.

Audiovisceral,

Well to begin your a hypocrite, in the same post you said you like to be Unique but your looking for Mainstream drum set-ups.

If your going for the type of kit that is used in Pop/Rock/Alt/Top40 sound,
Well Rock Tom Sizes are 12" 13" racked and 16" or 18" Floor or Both
Alt possibly 10" 12" 14"
and for Top40 and Pop most of it is Drum Machine Bullshit anyway.

With Wood Types, As you said it will be used for 100% recording
I'm Recording with a Tama Birch Kit that cost me $1800 AU and I'm getting decent results with a Med - High range mics.

Please allow me to rock the boat and suggest you simply check that your bearing edges are okay, and reskin your old kit. New heads, and a good tuning made my ancient CB700 kit sound great for recording! It was the cheapest kit available in 1863 when I bought 'em. They still work well. The thin shells are actually beneficial!

Otherwise, I must agree with vintage Ludwig.

I'd always heard Birch was for jazz kits, and maple was for big rock kits, especially for stage use. Maple is denser than Birch, and projects better, but I like the sound of Birch better, even for guitar and bass cabs (which I design and build).

The most obvious instrument to listen to different tone woods is with an acoustic guitar. Let your ears decide (though guitars aren't usually made with birch).

Well this thread is old but if anyone is still reading..

I wouldn't bother trying to fix the Westbury's; unload them as soon as possible and get a real kit.. you'll be glad you did. To be fair I've only played two Westbury kits (at friends houses), and they were the worst pile of .. I've ever seen.

Maple Ludwigs (Classic) are good for that big rock sound and can be found relatively cheap.

I play Ludwigs, Rogers and (birch) Yamaha Recording Customs.. and I love my RC's. My maple Ludwigs sound great as well.

- The Maples will give you a warmer sound with longer sustain. The birch (especially power shells that are deeper in length) will give you a warm sound as well but with shorter sustain.. which is why birch is really great for recording. The RC's are basically pre-EQ'd. But having said that, you can get coax great sound out of any good quality drum using proper head choices, tuning, minimal muffling, good quality mics and placement, etc.

- I've been using Aquarian Studio-X on the tom batters with great results.
- Also look for wood hoops on the kick; they sound much better (warmer) than the cold smack produced by metal rims.
- birch for jazz? I've never heard that before and I'd be surprised if that was the case. I would guess maple is more common. If the marketing people are to believed (ha!) and the RC's are the 'most recorded drums in the history of recording' then just about all the radio friendly hits you heard in the 80's &90's were done using birch RC's.

Either way maple or birch you can't go wrong.
- if you really want ot blow your mind check out fiberglass (Tempus/Milestone)

Yamaha Stage Customs just got redesigned as well. The shells are entirely birch. Definitely a good buy!

Alternatively Sonor makes the Force 2007 (birch, a bit under a grand) and the 3007 (maple, about $1200). Sonor are well constructed, super good looking, mounting is similar to yamaha and tama. You can't really go wrong either with the Yammies or the Sonors.

I think it was mahogany I was thing of for Jazz, not Birch...

For mainstream rock, I'd get mid priced birch kit and also replace the snare. That's where most of these kits are lacking IMO. I really think Mapex and Yamaha are great sets for the price. I don't think Pearl is making bad stuff either these days. Someday I want a custom Spaun, or a Noble & Cooley... ahh... dreams. :)

I just spent my life savings on a birch dw collectors edition. I don't regret it, but sometimes it baffles me how good some of my old drum sets sound. I guess I could say that drums, like most instruments, are non-linear as far as price and quality go. It's like those painful dB logarithms... For instance, the sound quality of a $300 kit compared to a $1000 kit will probably be a HUGE difference, whereas the quality of that same $1000 kit compared to that of a $2,500 kit, won't be that big of a jump.

Like the other guys are saying, find something suitable for your style of music...

BrianaW wrote: For mainstream rock, I'd get mid priced birch kit and also replace the snare. That's where most of these kits are lacking IMO. I really think Mapex and Yamaha are great sets for the price. I don't think Pearl is making bad stuff either these days. Someday I want a custom Spaun, or a Noble & Cooley... ahh... dreams. :)

Oh, She is completely right about the snare thing!!

Knowing how to properly tune drums, the mic you use, and the space you record in are all much more significant than whether they are birch or maple.

Jim

Who Said it has to be new? You can prob find great used kit and put heads on it your getting more bang for your buck that way and if your lucky it will already have cases with it. If you arent going to be touring with it then looks go by the wayside as a factor in your choice. Drums are sexy anyway because their drums. If they sound good then they are. Im a maple guy myself. happy choosing
Paul

(Dead Link Removed)

Actually, I think the shells are way down the list in factors contributing to recorded drum sound. Good heads, tuned correctly (a Drum Dial really helped me improve here) top quality cymbals (where the best is barely good enough) Most of all a good room. Those are the things I see as most important.

I have that kit in green. It's a good kit overall and great for the money. I bought a 16" floor tom to make it a 7 piece. The snare was a little vanilla for my taste but a pair of vintage Acrolites from the 'bay for under $200 total fixed that issue. Cymbals are the more critical item. I run with a variety of K's on that kit.

My other kit is a Gretsch jazz kit with mahogany shells. Very, very different sounding kit. The 18/12/14 sizes are a factor but clearly the wood in the main factor in the differences.

I am using Even's G1's on the toms and Ambassadors on the snares. Tuning is key and as stated previously, a drum dial can be invaluable in learning this skill and helps with consistency.

if you are looking for inexpensive quality i ould suggest the pearl smx or bmx series, (smx being maple and bmx being birch)
pearl just discontinued the series about a year ago, but many places still have them and are actually getting rid of them for cheap to make room for new stuff,
i own an smx kit and it sounds awesome, it has a lot of top notch features of pearls higher end kits, you can grab a full kit for like 900 usd plus 100 in heads and your set,

as far as heads, thats a whole other story for specifics of what when and where, so just go talk to your local drum guy at guitar center and he will help you, or just post a reply saying you want specifics and i could give you my opinion,

i will say this about snare heads though,
i've recorded twice at the same studio with my band, the first time using a coated ambassador, the second an evans power center reverse, both being put on the first day of recording,
i was pleased with the end result in both cases, maybe even the coated ambassador a bit more,
but after recording the ambassador sounds like crap, it looses a lot of its crack and that is due to it being only single plied,
now as a drummer who is more concerned with performances rather than recording, i really want something that sounds good over a longer period of time,
the single ply heads hold thier tuning better during the recording
but double ply will last longer,
just something to think about, if you are super serious about a good drum sound everytime and if you are going to be getting new heads every session

hope that i was at least a little bit helpful

oh and p.s. i am a big advocate for the drum dial use during EVERY SESSION, it makes my toms sing

OK, YESTERDAY WAS MY FIRST TIME HERE, AND I READ THIS ENTIRE POST.
I´M A PRODUCER7WRITER/PRO LIVE AND STUDIO DRUMMER, AND I´VE WORKED WITH SEVERAL MAJOR ARTISTS AND RECORDED IN SEVERAL MAJOR STUDIOS. I´VE HAD A PROMO DEAL WITH SONOR DRUMS, DW PEDALS, AND ZILDJIAN FOR YEARS NOW, AND HAVE SEVERAL KITS, AND CYMBALS TO CHOSE FROM.
I HAVE 8 SNARE DRUMS IN DIFFERENT SIZES AND MATERIALS.
I PREFER MAPLE OR BRASS SNARE DRUMS TO BIRCH.
MY FAVOURITE SNARES ARE MY 1980 14 x 6 1/2 LUDWIG BLACK BEAUTY, MY 1983 14 x 6 1/2 BIRCH (MAPLE FINISH) TAMA ARTWOOD, A YAMAHA BRASS PICCOLO, (DAVE WECKL`S SNARE, BEFORE HIS SIGNATURE MODEL) A DIXON 12 x 5 MAPLE, AND A DIXON 10 X 5 MAPLE.
I HAVE SEVERAL KITS IN SEVERAL DIFFERENT SIZES, BUT USUALLY ORDER A DESIGNER KIT FROM SONOR FOR MY TOURS.
I WOULD SAY FOR ALL AROUND, GO FOR A BIRCH KIT WITH A MAPLE OR BRASS SNARE, DEPENDING ON WHAT SOUND YOU´RE LOOKING FOR.
AMBASSADOR HEADS ON THE SNARES, AND I USE EITHER PIN STRIPES TOP, AND BLACK DOT BOTTOMS, OR EVANS ON SOME OF MY DRUMS.
THOSE TUNING DEVICES SUCK. YOU HAVE TO TUNE WITH A KEY BY EAR, OR USING A PIANO, IF YOUR EAR ISN´T GOOD ENOUGH.
THE SMALLER THE DRUM, THE EASIER TO TUNE, BECAUSE THERE´S LESS AIR MOVEMENT BETWEEN THE HEADS. YOU CAN MAKE A GOOD SOUNDING SMALL KIT SOUND LIKE A HUGE JOHN BONHAM KIT USING THE RIGHT COMPRESSION, AND ROOM. :D
I KNOW THAT SONOR DRUMS ARE QUITE EXPENSIVE IN THE USA, AS WELL AS DW DRUMS. MAPEX IS A PRETTY GOOD LOW PRICED KIT, YAMAHA IS ALSO GOOD. I USE TO HAVE A TAMA SUPERSTAR BIRCH KIT WITH MAHOGANY FINISH IN NORMAL STANDARD SIZES THAT SOUNDED GREAT.
I ONLY SOLD IT BECAUSE, I GOT RECORD DEAL, AND A DEAL WITH SONOR. :D THOSE OLD TAMA´S HAD A FAT SOUND.
MY FAVOURITE SONOR KIT THAT I USE ON CLUB GIGS IS MADE UP FROM
THE SMALLEST DRUMS FROM MY HUGE OLD SONOR LITE KIT, WHICH ARE BIRCH
I´VE ALSO USED THIS KIT IN MANY STUDIOS WITH GREAT RESULTS.
THE SIZES ARE 10 x 9 TOM, 12 x 11 TOM, 13 x 12 TOM, 16 x 17 BASS DRUM, AND A 10 x 5 DIXON MAPLE SNARE. THIS KIT BLOWS EVERY KIT AWAY LIVE OR IN THE STUDIO.
YOU MIGHT WANT TO LOOK FOR A USED KIT. THEY HAVE A BIT MORE WARMTH TO THEM, AND YOU CAN GET THEM CHEAPER, UNLESS THEY´RE OVER 30 YEARS OLD, AND CONSIDERED VINTAGE.
I MEAN, I´VE TAKEN THE CHEAPEST DRUMS ON OCCASIONS, AND TUNED THEM, AND GOT A GREAT SOUND; SO THE TUNING PLAYS A MAJOR FACTOR.
EXAMPLE; I BOUGHT MY YAMAHA PICCOLO VERY CHEAP FROM A DRUMMER HERE IN TOWN. HE HAD IT TUNED TERRIBLY, BUT I KNEW FROM THE DAVE WECKL VIDEOS HOW GOOD THAT DRUM COULD SOUND.
HE SHOWED UP AT ONE OF MY CONCERTS WHEN I WAS USING THE YAMAHA PICCOLO, AND OFFERED TO BUY IT BACK, BECAUSE IT SOUNDED SO GOOD. :D
I TOLD HIM, IT WILL ONLY SOUND GOOD UNTIL YOU BREAK A HEAD, AND THEN YOU´LL NEED ME TO TUNE IT FOR YOU!!!!!!!! :D :lol:
THAT WAS THE TRUTH, BECAUSE HE REALLY DIDN´T KNOW HOW TO TUNE THAT DRUM, WHICH IS THE REASON HE SOLD IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. :D
ANYWAY, SMALL BIRCH DRUMS, WITH A MAPLE OR BRASS SNARE SHOULD WORK GREAT FOR RECORDING PURPOSES.
I WOULD ALSO SAY SMALLER CYMBALS, (ZILDJIANS) BECAUSE IN THE STUDIO, YOU CAN MAKE ANYTHING SMALL SOUND BIG, BUT IT´S MORE DIFFICULT TO MAKE BIG SOUND SMALL. :D

PEACE,
DICARLO

Dude, seriously - I dig where your comin' from, but typing everything in CAPITAL LETTERS makes that whole post unreadable.

Please knock it off!

Yea, I agree with Birch. It has a lower tone to it, which I like. Plus its cheaper! :D

Anyways, check out the Ludwig Accent Custom Elite. $700 for a REALLY great sounding drumset. Just make sure you get a set that starts with a 10" tom.
The snares on those Ludwigs though do suck really bad.

If you do want to go Maple, check out the Gretch Catalina. My buddy has one and it sounds REALLY nice, and again, Its pretty cheap.

PORK PIE drums are the best out there for SOUND and QUALITY. =)

http://www.porkpiedrums.com/