Yes you can,check the specs, you will need to have a "crossover cable" to connect the2 togther.. Also conatc Alesis for more info or check their website

Patrick_like_static:

Yes, you can do this - and I'm not sure what heyman is talking about, all you need is a standard CAT5 cable to run from the ethernet on the back of your HD24 to your PC. However, you will notice that it runs VVVVVVEEERRRRRRYYYYYYY (10Mb/sec - that's MegaBITs not MegaBYTES - big difference)slow and will have a tendancy to drop the connection.

You would be much better off buying the fireport. It's $200, but it allows you to take the drive out of the bay, dock it on your desk and transfer the files at will.

Just to give you an example - I use an HD24 in one of my mobile recording rigs for orchestras. One of the recorded pieces was about 1 hour long on 6 tracks. Using the ethernet port, it took just under 2 days to transfer the file (taking into account several dropped connections). However, using the fireport (transferring the files at 400 MB - Megabytes - per second), it took less than 5 minutes!

That's a huge difference and well worth the $200.

Just my thoughts,
J...

You may want to check again but a standard cat 5 cable should require some sort of hub or switch before it can talk to the other computer. A crossover cable is basically the same cable that he is talking about but is wired diffrently to allow it to talk directly from computer to computer without the use of a hub or switch..

Doublecheck with Alesis if you are not sure.

If you connect directly to the computer form the Alesis, you definitely need a cross over cable. If you plug through a hub, then a standard cable is fine. Transfer is way slow.

You can download the operator's manual at Alesis.com, it will explain ti all for you.

Thanks to you all for replying so quickly.

Alesis's tech support also recommended the use of an ethernet crossover cable, so I may run out and buy one of these to be safe.

And the rate of transferring these files isn't as much of an issue to me as--as Cucco said--ethernet's "tendancy to drop the connection." I'd hate to have to deal with this repeatedly, so ANY problems I encounter while transferring these will be excuse enough for me to try out the FirePorts.

I really appreciate your help.

Yeah so stick that one in your pipe Cucco !!! Just kiddin. Everyone is here to help..!

hey patrick_like_static,
Is that band that you tracked with Faatherton. This is Justin from Sylas. Good to see you found this message board.

Patrick, An ethernet crossover cable is just the pairs from pins 1 & 2 switched with the pairs from pins 3 & 6 on one end of the RJ-45 connector (the orange and green pairs). In other words if orange/white is on pins 1 & 2 of one end then green/white goes on pins 1 & 2 of the other end. A straight through cable has the same colored pairs on 1 & 2 at both ends. A crossover cable is necessary to communicate with another device directly. A straight through cable is for connection to hubs and switches. Some devices do have internal crossovers that can be switched depending on what type of cable you have. I doubt that the HD24 has such a switch as this is usually only found on network devices so I would suggest buying a crossover as you said.

A 10Mbs connection should transfer data at around 1.25 Megabytes per second not greased lightning but not that bad. If the transfer is as slow as some of you say then there is either a problem with the HD24 or your PC. It sounds to be more a problem with the HD24. You should never lose communication via ethernet, dropped packets yes but not loss of the link. I would suggest checking with Alesis to see if their are any firmware updates and check your HD24's revision to see if it's current with the updates. I can move 10GB's over my network in 15 minutes and that's with other traffic. 2 days is just insane.

Hope this helps :D

The Alesis manual states: "it may take 16 minutes to transfer a 4 minute, 24 track song." In my experience it takes a little longer than that, more like 25.

Another option would be if you had a computer interface with 24 channels of adat lightpipe, you can transfer in real time. A MOTU 2408 or RME 95/52 would work.

Yep, I just deleted the post I put up about 15 minutes ago. Mainly cuz, I realized I was wrong on a couple of points. It's funny how a little alcohol helps you forget all of the rudimentary stuff. Anyway, yes, a crossover cable, when hooking directly to the pc is suggested. I forgot this since I haven't done it in so long and have since switched to piping it through my switch/router. However, the lag times associated with this machine are well documented and on any lan, I've not seen this thing run anywhere near the 10 Mb per second advertised.

The reason that the network dropped is that the Alesis saw the lag as a server time out and therefore reset the connection. (To say you should never lose connection on ethernet sounds like what AOL tech support would say - of course you can drop an ethernet connection, it happens all the time.) Putting it on the router helped, but did not solve this problem entirely.

Even if it did move at the advertised speed, it would take well over an hour to transfer the equivelent of a CD (2 channels, 16 bit/44.1) However, since the unit records in 24 bit, add 50 percent to that - your now near 2 hours, multiply that by 3 for the count of 6 total tracks, (now we're at about 6 hours) then multiply that by 2 for sampling in 88.2 (which I always use for orchestra). So, 12 hours to transfer, uninterupted, a 6 track piece lasting the length of a CD. That's a long friggin time. And, since I don't sit at my workstation that long (at least, not every day), and since there were network interruptions, it took me nearly 2 days. Agreed, this is ludicrous, but it is what is to be expected with this device.

Trust me, buy the FireWire transfer piece, you won't regret it. Why wait hours when you can transfer in minutes? How much do you charge an hour? Multiply that by the time you'd save on just one project using the firewire method and the $200 seems almost silly it's so cheap.

My (annoying) thoughts, :D

J...

Justin: Hey, man! Yes, this is Kevyn from Faatherton. You know, since the very night you told me about recording.org, there's seldom been a day in which I haven't spent at least an hour or more on here. Thanks very much, man. I'll be excited to talk to you in person again soon.

So I purchased the ethernet crossover cable tonight; Until I looked at the diagram in the store, I was unaware that 2 PCs/devices could talk to each other directly in such a manner. Very cool. Thanks for the heads up.

And regarding the transfer time: after I perused through some online literature, most people agree that file transers via the HD24's ethernet port are 1/4 (duration in real time x number of tracks) using a browser, or as fast as 1/6 (duration in real time x number of tracks) using an FTP client (all of this is spot-on with what EricK has said).

Sadly, I'm too much of a square to have a lightpipe compatible interface, so--short of buying anything else--the ethernet connection will have to do. Thanks again for everyone's help.

The reason that the network dropped is that the Alesis saw the lag as a server time out and therefore reset the connection. (To say you should never lose connection on ethernet sounds like what AOL tech support would say - of course you can drop an ethernet connection, it happens all the time.) Putting it on the router helped, but did not solve this problem entirely.

To begin with we are discussing a peer to peer network connection not client / server, so there could be no server timeout. In peer to peer model devices are on equal ground. THERE IS NO SERVER!

A packet is transmitted from the HD24 to the PC when the PC recieves the packet it sends an acknowledgment of receipt of the packet to the HD24 and the next packet is sent and so on. If no receipt is recieved the HD24 will attempt to resend the packet. After a prescribed number of retries it will cease to transmit packets until a receipt is recieved. THIS IS NOT A LOSS OF CONNECTION but merely the HD24 waiting for a response.

You would know this if you had any clue as to how ethernet really works. Your assertation that the HD24 is somehow reseting the connection is equally ridiculous. It is waiting for a reply why would it reset? You clearly don't understand what resetting a connection means. If you did you would understand that devices don't do it on their own.

You state that the "Alesis saw the lag as a server timeout". What lag? You earlier stated that the HD24 is very slow so I assumed the lag is coming from the HD24. The only way the HD24 could see a lag is if your PC couldn't handle the packet traffic. So now your saying the PC is slow. Which is it? Do you know?

How did you find these so called timeout's and reset connections?
Did you use a data scope? Do you know how to use a data scope? Could you interpret the results? I seriously doubt you could since you didn't know what a crossover cable was until it was explained.

I forgot this since I haven't done it in so long and have since switched to piping it through my switch/router.

However, using the fireport (transferring the files at 400 MB - Megabytes - per second), it took less than 5 minutes!

Now which interface is it your using again?

of course you can drop an ethernet connection, it happens all the time

Yes it can if as I stated there is something wrong with one of the devices or you are using crappy network interfaces. I am guessing the HD24 doesn't use the best NIC and if it happens to you "all the time" then you need to upgrade your PC's NIC as well. Try buying better network gear. You get what you pay for. Try some power conditioning it can make a big difference. I make my living as a network engineer and have for 15 years. I have devices that have been running for years uninterupted so don't tell me it happens all the time.

I posted here to help Patrick not argue with someone who wants to pass himself off as knowlegable on networking. Save your asinine comments (comparing me to AOL tech support) for your drinking buddies who think you actually know what your talking about.

Patrick, I'll keep an eye out for any other posts you may have on this. I'll see if I can find more info on the HD24 so maybe your transfers can go more smoothly.

Thanks again, Big_D. Sorry for any dissension this topic has caused.

Big_D wrote:
To begin with we are discussing a peer to peer network connection not client / server, so there could be no server timeout. In peer to peer model devices are on equal ground. THERE IS NO SERVER!

Actually, Big_D, we are dealing with a server here, this is NOT peer-to-peer. The Alesis establishes itself as an FTP server, which you log-in to. True, my use of terminology was backwards, the PC does not get anything from the Slow as molasses FTP server, and in some cases, the server simply ceases to send information. The PC eventually gives up.

Big_D wrote:
A packet is transmitted from the HD24 to the PC when the PC recieves the packet it sends an acknowledgment of receipt of the packet to the HD24 and the next packet is sent and so on. If no receipt is recieved the HD24 will attempt to resend the packet. After a prescribed number of retries it will cease to transmit packets until a receipt is recieved. THIS IS NOT A LOSS OF CONNECTION but merely the HD24 waiting for a response.

The packet is transmitted at the request of the PC! If the FTP server fails to respond, the PC gives up.

Big_D wrote:
You would know this if you had any clue as to how ethernet really works. Your assertation that the HD24 is somehow reseting the connection is equally ridiculous. It is waiting for a reply why would it reset? You clearly don't understand what resetting a connection means. If you did you would understand that devices don't do it on their own.

What the hell is the purpose of personal attacks? I never personally attacked you. Even in some of my more aggressive posts, I haven't come off looking this arrogant!

Big_D wrote:
You state that the "Alesis saw the lag as a server timeout". What lag? You earlier stated that the HD24 is very slow so I assumed the lag is coming from the HD24. The only way the HD24 could see a lag is if your PC couldn't handle the packet traffic. So now your saying the PC is slow. Which is it? Do you know?

Look, I speak in laymans terms here, because I assume not everyone is a network engineer. The problem that I have is that in "dumbing it down," I did it a bit too much and made it sound as though the Alesis has anything to do with the decision process.

Big_D wrote:
How did you find these so called timeout's and reset connections?
Did you use a data scope? Do you know how to use a data scope? Could you interpret the results? I seriously doubt you could since you didn't know what a crossover cable was until it was explained.

Well, since you're so interested - I used a network analyzer (Fluke Networks EtherScope LAN Analyzer) to determine the massive packet loss.

As for the crossover cable; gee, I forgot. 4 years ago, when I wired my own damn crossover cable for this purpose (just as I wire all my own ethernet cables) I remembered. But since then, there just hasn't been much call for them. Sorry, I guess I'm allowed to make a f'ing slip up. (Which, by the way, I promptly owned up to!)

Big_D wrote: Now which interface is it your using again?

It's called "Firewire"... It's a neat, new technology...it allows much faster transfer rates and is intended for large file transfers etc. (Sarcasm intended!)

Big_D wrote:
Yes it can if as I stated there is something wrong with one of the devices or you are using crappy network interfaces. I am guessing the HD24 doesn't use the best NIC and if it happens to you "all the time" then you need to upgrade your PC's NIC as well. Try buying better network gear. You get what you pay for. Try some power conditioning it can make a big difference. I make my living as a network engineer and have for 15 years. I have devices that have been running for years uninterupted so don't tell me it happens all the time.

Wow, you've been into my home and my studio to see my crappy Cisco network routers and firewalls. And of course you've seen my POS 3Com gigabit ethernet cards too. I guess you disapprove of my rackmount APC power conditioner/UPS devices too. Yes, my point exactly is that the ethernet card in the Alesis isn't worth the PCB board it was printed on!
Wow, uninterupted for 15 years. I do believe that's a world friggin record. There isn't a piece of gear in the entire building where I work that has gone that long. Oh, gee, what building is that? It's only the largest office building and largest lan on the F'ing planet - the Pentagon.

Big_D wrote:
I posted here to help Patrick not argue with someone who wants to pass himself off as knowlegable on networking. Save your asinine comments (comparing me to AOL tech support) for your drinking buddies who think you actually know what your talking about.

See, now you attacked me personally again. Why did you have to go and do that? I guess my employer finds me passable as a network engineer. I guess the Army (no, I'm not a soldier, I'm a contractor) thinks I'm fit to be an engineer. I guess Microsoft thinks I'm fit to be an engineer (What with MCSE and MCSD certs). I guess Cisco finds me acceptable as an engineer (with that silly CCNA certification).

Let me ask you a question.

Do you even own one of the HD24's? Based on the information that you've posted, it doesn't appear that you do. Why don't you leave the commenting to someone who actually owns the piece of gear that the person is asking about.

I usually try to keep out of this flame war crap, but don't attack me personally when you have no friggin clue who I am, what my background is, or anything about me. I wouldn't attack you, so why would you attack me or anyone else?

And Patrick - when you get sick and tired of the incredibly slow downloads, let us know. I think you'll truly enjoy the Fireport - it rocks! And please, don't apologize for anything - your question didn't cause animosity. Other's behavior did.

Thanks,

Jeremy

Patrick, As Cucco stated no need to appoligize. You did nothing wrong. You are helping others with your question and I am sorry this dispute took place on your thread. I will do my best to end it here or move it to PM.

Actually, Big_D, we are dealing with a server here, this is NOT peer-to-peer. The Alesis establishes itself as an FTP server, which you log-in to. True, my use of terminology was backwards, the PC does not get anything from the Slow as molasses FTP server, and in some cases, the server simply ceases to send information. The PC eventually gives up.

:oops: Had I bothered to read Patricks post before I responded to yours I would have seen that the HD24 downloads via FTP or browser. This clearly fits the client/server model and you are correct it is not peer to peer. My mistake. Alesis probably did this to prevent direct access to the OS and hardware and is probably the reason for it's poor preformance along with a cheap NIC. Has anyone ever hacked this box. I'd be interested to see the results and to see if the OS can be replaced with something more stable.

The packet is transmitted at the request of the PC! If the FTP server fails to respond, the PC gives up.

Is this not what I said? I used this as an example of how these failures can occur. Any lack of response to request or transmission of data on the part of either device would result in this scenario. My point was and still is the connection is not lost. When you stated that " the server simply ceases to send information. The PC eventually gives up." you seem to acknowledge what I have been saying. There are many reasons this can happen of which only one would be loss of connection.

Look, I speak in laymans terms here, because I assume not everyone is a network engineer. The problem that I have is that in "dumbing it down," I did it a bit too much and made it sound as though the Alesis has anything to do with the decision process.

Okay, I'll accept that. I'm guilty of the same, but it is not the reason I called you on it.

Well, since you're so interested - I used a network analyzer (Fluke Networks EtherScope LAN Analyzer) to determine the massive packet loss.

Not my first tool of choice for this application, I would have chosen a packet sniffer but the Fluke is a valid choice and personal preference issue. What's with the "massive packet loss" I thought the problem was the server not responding to requests.

As for the crossover cable; gee, I forgot. 4 years ago, when I wired my own damn crossover cable for this purpose (just as I wire all my own ethernet cables) I remembered. But since then, there just hasn't been much call for them. Sorry, I guess I'm allowed to make a f'ing slip up. (Which, by the way, I promptly owned up to!)

Just what kind of network does the Pentagon have that it doesn't have the need for X-overs. I use them every day in my job. Example: You can't patch a Cisco 1900 to a 2900 without them. So how do you do your job without them? I'm really curious how a "network engineer" could go 4 years without using a X-over. I also make my own cables but this is no major accomplishment as my 10 year old nephew has made his own also.

It's called "Firewire"... It's a neat, new technology...it allows much faster transfer rates and is intended for large file transfers etc. (Sarcasm intended!)

:lol: Funny I like that.

Wow, you've been into my home and my studio to see my crappy Cisco network routers and firewalls. And of course you've seen my POS 3Com gigabit ethernet cards too. I guess you disapprove of my rackmount APC power conditioner/UPS devices too. Yes, my point exactly is that the ethernet card in the Alesis isn't worth the PCB board it was printed on!
Wow, uninterupted for 15 years. I do believe that's a world friggin record. There isn't a piece of gear in the entire building where I work that has gone that long. Oh, gee, what building is that? It's only the largest office building and largest lan on the F'ing planet - the Pentagon.

So much to respond to, I stated that I believed the HD24 was the problem or perhaps you missed that. My statement about your gear was in response to your statement that connections are lost "all the time". If you are "loosing connection" to more than the HR24 "all the time" wouldn't you suggest better NIC's and power conditioning, I certainly would and did.

Did you actually stop and read my post or just glance over it. I never said I had network devices running for 15 years, I said I've been a network engineer for 15 years. Big Difference! I said I have devices that have been running for years uninterupted and I do. Some have been running for over 3 years uninterupted at work and I have a file and MP3 server in my home that have been up just as long. No record I'm sure but far better than "loosing connection all the time".

Do you even own one of the HD24's? Based on the information that you've posted, it doesn't appear that you do. Why don't you leave the commenting to someone who actually owns the piece of gear that the person is asking about.

No I don't own an HD24 and by what I've seen posted by you I certainly won't be shopping for one anytime soon. I posted a response to a networking question not about the recorder directly.
I simply explained a X-over cable and the possible reasons for ethernet communication problems (something I am qualified to do) but I will be happy to refrain from commenting on the HD24 if you refrain from commenting on networking.

I guess Microsoft thinks I'm fit to be an engineer (What with MCSE and MCSD certs). I guess Cisco finds me acceptable as an engineer (with that silly CCNA certification).

That's nice. I have a degree in computer science, my first cert. was a CNE, I also have your certs. plus enough to wallpaper a small room. So what, it doesn't mean anything, it's just a peice of paper. It's trouble shooting skills and your knowledge of communications that make you a good engineer. It is certainly something to be proud of to have earned them but it doesn't make you a network engineer any more than attending Full Sail makes you recording engineer. I work with guys all the time who brag about their certs. but don't know the difference between SDN and Frame Relay, that can't work with VLAN's or don't know how to change a simple COS (yes I work with voice networks also). So please let's drop the alphabet soup and stick to real world knowledge.

I usually try to keep out of this flame war crap, but don't attack me personally when you have no friggin clue who I am, what my background is, or anything about me. I wouldn't attack you, so why would you attack me or anyone else?

(To say you should never lose connection on ethernet sounds like what AOL tech support would say - of course you can drop an ethernet connection, it happens all the time.)

If you try to stay out of flame wars why do you make comments like this? Did you think you were funny? You clearly are trying to discredit my statement about ethernet connections (and that's okay) but you couldn't leave it at that, you had to make a smart ass comment comparing me to the pin heads who work at AOL tech support. I have no problem with your disagreeing with me, this is a forum after all and disagreement is part of discussion. But as you said, you don't know me, my background or anything about me. So why would you make a comment compaing me to AOL techs. You bashed me first I was merely giving it back to you. If you don't like it then keep your f**king comments to yourself.

Patrick, I'm sorry for polluting your thread with this. Good luck with your transfers, Cucco seems to know the machine well so I think your in good hands. I'll keep checking the posts as I'd like to know how you made out. Keep us posted.

Patrick, As Cucco stated no need to appoligize. You did nothing wrong. You are helping others with your question and I am sorry this dispute took place on your thread. I will do my best to end it here or move it to PM.

Actually, Big_D, we are dealing with a server here, this is NOT peer-to-peer. The Alesis establishes itself as an FTP server, which you log-in to. True, my use of terminology was backwards, the PC does not get anything from the Slow as molasses FTP server, and in some cases, the server simply ceases to send information. The PC eventually gives up.

:oops: Had I bothered to read Patricks post before I responded to yours I would have seen that the HD24 downloads via FTP or browser. This clearly fits the client/server model and you are correct it is not peer to peer. My mistake. Alesis probably did this to prevent direct access to the OS and hardware and is probably the reason for it's poor preformance along with a cheap NIC. Has anyone ever hacked this box. I'd be interested to see the results and to see if the OS can be replaced with something more stable.

The packet is transmitted at the request of the PC! If the FTP server fails to respond, the PC gives up.

Is this not what I said? I used this as an example of how these failures can occur. Any lack of response to request or transmission of data on the part of either device would result in this scenario. My point was and still is the connection is not lost. When you stated that " the server simply ceases to send information. The PC eventually gives up." you seem to acknowledge what I have been saying. There are many reasons this can happen of which only one would be loss of connection.

Look, I speak in laymans terms here, because I assume not everyone is a network engineer. The problem that I have is that in "dumbing it down," I did it a bit too much and made it sound as though the Alesis has anything to do with the decision process.

Okay, I'll accept that. I'm guilty of the same, but it is not the reason I called you on it.

Well, since you're so interested - I used a network analyzer (Fluke Networks EtherScope LAN Analyzer) to determine the massive packet loss.

Not my first tool of choice for this application, I would have chosen a packet sniffer but the Fluke is a valid choice and personal preference issue. What's with the "massive packet loss" I thought the problem was the server not responding to requests.

As for the crossover cable; gee, I forgot. 4 years ago, when I wired my own damn crossover cable for this purpose (just as I wire all my own ethernet cables) I remembered. But since then, there just hasn't been much call for them. Sorry, I guess I'm allowed to make a f'ing slip up. (Which, by the way, I promptly owned up to!)

Just what kind of network does the Pentagon have that it doesn't have the need for X-overs. I use them every day in my job. Example: You can't patch a Cisco 1900 to a 2900 without them. So how do you do your job without them? I'm really curious how a "network engineer" could go 4 years without using a X-over. I also make my own cables but this is no major accomplishment as my 10 year old nephew has made his own also.

It's called "Firewire"... It's a neat, new technology...it allows much faster transfer rates and is intended for large file transfers etc. (Sarcasm intended!)

:lol: Funny I like that.

Wow, you've been into my home and my studio to see my crappy Cisco network routers and firewalls. And of course you've seen my POS 3Com gigabit ethernet cards too. I guess you disapprove of my rackmount APC power conditioner/UPS devices too. Yes, my point exactly is that the ethernet card in the Alesis isn't worth the PCB board it was printed on!
Wow, uninterupted for 15 years. I do believe that's a world friggin record. There isn't a piece of gear in the entire building where I work that has gone that long. Oh, gee, what building is that? It's only the largest office building and largest lan on the F'ing planet - the Pentagon.

So much to respond to, I stated that I believed the HD24 was the problem or perhaps you missed that. My statement about your gear was in response to your statement that connections are lost "all the time". If you are "loosing connection" to more than the HR24 "all the time" wouldn't you suggest better NIC's and power conditioning, I certainly would and did.

Did you actually stop and read my post or just glance over it. I never said I had network devices running for 15 years, I said I've been a network engineer for 15 years. Big Difference! I said I have devices that have been running for years uninterupted and I do. Some have been running for over 3 years uninterupted at work and I have a file and MP3 server in my home that have been up just as long. No record I'm sure but far better than "loosing connection all the time".

Do you even own one of the HD24's? Based on the information that you've posted, it doesn't appear that you do. Why don't you leave the commenting to someone who actually owns the piece of gear that the person is asking about.

No I don't own an HD24 and by what I've seen posted by you I certainly won't be shopping for one anytime soon. I posted a response to a networking question not about the recorder directly.
I simply explained a X-over cable and the possible reasons for ethernet communication problems (something I am qualified to do) but I will be happy to refrain from commenting on the HD24 if you refrain from commenting on networking.

I guess Microsoft thinks I'm fit to be an engineer (What with MCSE and MCSD certs). I guess Cisco finds me acceptable as an engineer (with that silly CCNA certification).

That's nice. I have a degree in computer science, my first cert. was a CNE, I also have your certs. plus enough to wallpaper a small room. So what, it doesn't mean anything, it's just a peice of paper. It's trouble shooting skills and your knowledge of communications that make you a good engineer. It is certainly something to be proud of to have earned them but it doesn't make you a network engineer any more than attending Full Sail makes you recording engineer. I work with guys all the time who brag about their certs. but don't know the difference between SDN and Frame Relay, that can't work with VLAN's or don't know how to change a simple COS (yes I work with voice networks also). So please let's drop the alphabet soup and stick to real world knowledge.

I usually try to keep out of this flame war crap, but don't attack me personally when you have no friggin clue who I am, what my background is, or anything about me. I wouldn't attack you, so why would you attack me or anyone else?

(To say you should never lose connection on ethernet sounds like what AOL tech support would say - of course you can drop an ethernet connection, it happens all the time.)

If you try to stay out of flame wars why do you make comments like this? Did you think you were funny? You clearly are trying to discredit my statement about ethernet connections (and that's okay) but you couldn't leave it at that, you had to make a smart ass comment comparing me to the pin heads who work at AOL tech support. I have no problem with your disagreeing with me, this is a forum after all and disagreement is part of discussion. But as you said, you don't know me, my background or anything about me. So why would you make a comment compaing me to AOL techs. You bashed me first I was merely giving it back to you. If you don't like it then keep your f**king comments to yourself.

Patrick, I'm sorry for polluting your thread with this. Good luck with your transfers, Cucco seems to know the machine well so I think your in good hands. I'll keep checking the posts as I'd like to know how you made out. Keep us posted.

Patrick, As Cucco stated no need to appoligize. You did nothing wrong. You are helping others with your question and I am sorry this dispute took place on your thread. I will do my best to end it here or move it to PM.

Actually, Big_D, we are dealing with a server here, this is NOT peer-to-peer. The Alesis establishes itself as an FTP server, which you log-in to. True, my use of terminology was backwards, the PC does not get anything from the Slow as molasses FTP server, and in some cases, the server simply ceases to send information. The PC eventually gives up.

:oops: Had I bothered to read Patricks post before I responded to yours I would have seen that the HD24 downloads via FTP or browser. This clearly fits the client/server model and you are correct it is not peer to peer. My mistake. Alesis probably did this to prevent direct access to the OS and hardware and is probably the reason for it's poor preformance along with a cheap NIC. Has anyone ever hacked this box. I'd be interested to see the results and to see if the OS can be replaced with something more stable.

The packet is transmitted at the request of the PC! If the FTP server fails to respond, the PC gives up.

Is this not what I said? I used this as an example of how these failures can occur. Any lack of response to request or transmission of data on the part of either device would result in this scenario. My point was and still is the connection is not lost. When you stated that " the server simply ceases to send information. The PC eventually gives up." you seem to acknowledge what I have been saying. There are many reasons this can happen of which only one would be loss of connection.

Look, I speak in laymans terms here, because I assume not everyone is a network engineer. The problem that I have is that in "dumbing it down," I did it a bit too much and made it sound as though the Alesis has anything to do with the decision process.

Okay, I'll accept that. I'm guilty of the same, but it is not the reason I called you on it.

Well, since you're so interested - I used a network analyzer (Fluke Networks EtherScope LAN Analyzer) to determine the massive packet loss.

Not my first tool of choice for this application, I would have chosen a packet sniffer but the Fluke is a valid choice and personal preference issue. What's with the "massive packet loss" I thought the problem was the server not responding to requests.

As for the crossover cable; gee, I forgot. 4 years ago, when I wired my own damn crossover cable for this purpose (just as I wire all my own ethernet cables) I remembered. But since then, there just hasn't been much call for them. Sorry, I guess I'm allowed to make a f'ing slip up. (Which, by the way, I promptly owned up to!)

Just what kind of network does the Pentagon have that it doesn't have the need for X-overs. I use them every day in my job. Example: You can't patch a Cisco 1900 to a 2900 without them. So how do you do your job without them? I'm really curious how a "network engineer" could go 4 years without using a X-over. I also make my own cables but this is no major accomplishment as my 10 year old nephew has made his own also.

It's called "Firewire"... It's a neat, new technology...it allows much faster transfer rates and is intended for large file transfers etc. (Sarcasm intended!)

:lol: Funny I like that.

Wow, you've been into my home and my studio to see my crappy Cisco network routers and firewalls. And of course you've seen my POS 3Com gigabit ethernet cards too. I guess you disapprove of my rackmount APC power conditioner/UPS devices too. Yes, my point exactly is that the ethernet card in the Alesis isn't worth the PCB board it was printed on!
Wow, uninterupted for 15 years. I do believe that's a world friggin record. There isn't a piece of gear in the entire building where I work that has gone that long. Oh, gee, what building is that? It's only the largest office building and largest lan on the F'ing planet - the Pentagon.

So much to respond to, I stated that I believed the HD24 was the problem or perhaps you missed that. My statement about your gear was in response to your statement that connections are lost "all the time". If you are "loosing connection" to more than the HR24 "all the time" wouldn't you suggest better NIC's and power conditioning, I certainly would and did.

Did you actually stop and read my post or just glance over it. I never said I had network devices running for 15 years, I said I've been a network engineer for 15 years. Big Difference! I said I have devices that have been running for years uninterupted and I do. Some have been running for over 3 years uninterupted at work and I have a file and MP3 server in my home that have been up just as long. No record I'm sure but far better than "loosing connection all the time".

Do you even own one of the HD24's? Based on the information that you've posted, it doesn't appear that you do. Why don't you leave the commenting to someone who actually owns the piece of gear that the person is asking about.

No I don't own an HD24 and by what I've seen posted by you I certainly won't be shopping for one anytime soon. I posted a response to a networking question not about the recorder directly.
I simply explained a X-over cable and the possible reasons for ethernet communication problems (something I am qualified to do) but I will be happy to refrain from commenting on the HD24 if you refrain from commenting on networking.

I guess Microsoft thinks I'm fit to be an engineer (What with MCSE and MCSD certs). I guess Cisco finds me acceptable as an engineer (with that silly CCNA certification).

That's nice. I have a degree in computer science, my first cert. was a CNE, I also have your certs. plus enough to wallpaper a small room. So what, it doesn't mean anything, it's just a peice of paper. It's trouble shooting skills and your knowledge of communications that make you a good engineer. It is certainly something to be proud of to have earned them but it doesn't make you a network engineer any more than attending Full Sail makes you recording engineer. I work with guys all the time who brag about their certs. but don't know the difference between SDN and Frame Relay, that can't work with VLAN's or don't know how to change a simple COS (yes I work with voice networks also). So please let's drop the alphabet soup and stick to real world knowledge.

I usually try to keep out of this flame war crap, but don't attack me personally when you have no friggin clue who I am, what my background is, or anything about me. I wouldn't attack you, so why would you attack me or anyone else?

(To say you should never lose connection on ethernet sounds like what AOL tech support would say - of course you can drop an ethernet connection, it happens all the time.)

If you try to stay out of flame wars why do you make comments like this? Did you think you were funny? You clearly are trying to discredit my statement about ethernet connections (and that's okay) but you couldn't leave it at that, you had to make a smart ass comment comparing me to the pin heads who work at AOL tech support. I have no problem with your disagreeing with me, this is a forum after all and disagreement is part of discussion. But as you said, you don't know me, my background or anything about me. So why would you make a comment compaing me to AOL techs. You bashed me first I was merely giving it back to you. If you don't like it then keep your f**king comments to yourself.

Patrick, I'm sorry for polluting your thread with this. Good luck with your transfers, Cucco seems to know the machine well so I think your in good hands. I'll keep checking the posts as I'd like to know how you made out. Keep us posted.

Big_D:

Okay, I get your point, no need to post it 3 times (he, he, I'm just kidding - this forum does that "all the time")

Yeah, believe me, I felt pretty damn stupid about the crossover cable. (Though I usually refer to it as a straight through cable - don't know why, that's just what I call it - even though I know that's the wrong terminology and refers to a DB25 to DB25 cable) I'm sure you understand that, as a network engineer, you don't always get to do the fun stuff. Unfortunately, despite my education and certifications, I have spent the past 3 years (pretty much since 9/12/01 - no, not a typo, I mean the day after) in a much more political role than an engineer's role. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't wish I could roll up my sleeves and do some real work...(and I am getting old, and yes, memory is the first thing to go.)

Yep, I did read your post in it's entirety, but I misread the part about gear being uninterupted. My bad...

Now, I think you took my comment about AOL tech support a little too personal. Don't get me wrong, if I equated YOU to AOL tech support personnel, I could see why you'd be pissed. I just thought that the answer you gave on that one point sounded like something they would say ("no, it can't be the software, it's got to be the hardware...") I certainly didn't mean for you to take that personally, but I apologize nonetheless.

Just a couple notes in response:
-Yep, the Fluke is overkill, but I happen to have one lying around so I use it for everything.
-When I stated that I loose connections all the time, it is only when hooked up to the HD24 that I loose connections
-Despite the sh*tty ethernet implementation on the HD24, I strongly advocate it's use. It is one of the most stable pieces of recording hardware that I have ever encountered. Since I record orchestral works, they have a tendancy to be long. I have recorded 10 tracks at 88.2 kHz for nearly 2 hours straight with no failures. I tried the same thing on a Tascam box and it failed every time at only about 10 minutes in each time!

One final note:

Can't we all just get along?

Thanks,

Jeremy

Jeremy,

I'd love to know what it is with these repeat posts, I had one last week that went 6 times and then the whole thread disappeared. I was trying to figure out how I was going to explain to David how I deleted his thread when it suddenly came back.

You shouldn't feel stupid about anything let alone an X-over cable. I have read many of your posts and they have helped me tremendously. I'm getting back into recording after a 15 year hiatus (I started in the late 70's with demos for my band and it continued as a hobby) and there is so much to learn again as well as much I never knew. I have a personal studio that is only for myself and select friends. I don't want to have bands traipsing through my house or disturbing my family so I have considered recording Choirs, Piano and perhaps small string ensemble's to help offset the investment in better gear. This is an area I know next to nothing about but thanks to your posts I am learning.

Now, I think you took my comment about AOL tech support a little too personal. Don't get me wrong, if I equated YOU to AOL tech support personnel, I could see why you'd be pissed. I just thought that the answer you gave on that one point sounded like something they would say ("no, it can't be the software, it's got to be the hardware...") I certainly didn't mean for you to take that personally, but I apologize nonetheless.

Okay, now I feel stupid! I never bothered to look at it that way. I guess I assumed the worst (it's difficult to interpret the tone of things in print isn't it). I also must appoligize for the statements in my posts, I insulted you because I thought I was being insulted which it turns out was never the case.

I love anything from Fluke, great gear, but I tend to go for software based sniffers first as I can be both first party and third party. You can't beat the quick setup of the hardware based scopes though.

I have a spare rackmount PC (P4,1GB RAM, SATA HDD) I was considering for mobile recording, is the HD24 a major leap above this kind of platform or do you think they would compare well to each other?

I will post a few questions soon on this type of recording and your input would be greatly appreciated.

Can't we all just get along?

I think we just did. :D

Now, this board is starting to get to me - I posted a reply yesterday, and today it's gone! Man, if it's not tripling the reply, it's deleting them! :x

Oh well, I'm getting old and have a tendancy to forget things, but I'll try to remember what I typed yesterday.

Thanks for the kind words and I'm glad that we can come to a good understanding. There's too much animosity in the world, so I'm glad we can have peace here on the RO boards.

In response to your question about the HD24 being better than the PC, I would say emphatically that the PC will be a better machine. Don't get me wrong - I love the HD24, but it's mainly because of its stability and longevity that I love it. That being said, it's ethernet implementation sucks, its converters are second rate, and parts of it feel damn cheap (notably the hard drive caddies). But, I will say that it has yet to fail on me, which is something I can't say about any other hard disk recorder I've ever used. I've used a few by Tascam and they all failed, regularly.

The problem I have is that I record live orchestral works. Sometimes, a piece will last well over an hour. With a modest track count of 6 to 8 tracks at 88.2 sampling frequency, this can translate into a HUGE file. Many HD recorder OS's aren't equipped to handle files this large. The HD24 just doesn't quit though.

In the case of the Tascams, not only did they die about 10 minutes into the piece repeatedly, but when they died, everything that was recorded was lost. Talking about volatile memory - geez, that sucks! And of course, it's not written in any file known by modern PCs, so simple recovery utilities don't even recognize the files. (Of course, utilities like OnTrack would, but they are friggin expensive.)

On to the PC though - obviously, you know how to make a pc stable. If you get halfway decent converters, a good DAW software package and some type of I/O for the PC, you will have an unbeatable HD recording system. One that you can edit directly in real time while recording and then produce masters within the same box. It's kind of like one of those all-in-one boxes only done correctly.

All of the above being said, I can't recall a time in recent history where I recorded a live gig that I didn't have the PC AND the HD24 set up. Cuz we all know - SH*T Happens. Oh, and of course, I run all of that into one of those sweet, rack-mount APC UPS's. Nothing is more annoying than some idiot tripping over your power cord and yanking it out of the wall right before you hit save. (ARGGHHH!) And you've probably guessed by now, yep, the rack is really damned heavy. Just slightly over 100 pounds! (That's why I hire 10 year old kids from 3rd world countries for $.12 and hour to carry my gear to and fro :lol: )

Anyway, thanks for working with me to get past our disagreements.

J...

hd24 fireport rocks!

I agree with Cucco. The fireport is the way to go. I am a brand new owner of an hd24 and absolutely love it. It's the best hard disk recorder on the market and has everything you need and nothing you don't. I happen to much prefer the hd24 over a computer daw to record. I do use my computer to edit and so forth . So in my opinion, limited as it may be, I like the stability of recording on the hd24 but once captured, I like the flexibility and visual interface of a computer daw to do the 'dirty work'...the best of both worlds, I guess.

Re: hd24 fireport rocks!

Toby_Fairchild wrote: I agree with Cucco. The fireport is the way to go. I am a brand new owner of an hd24 and absolutely love it. It's the best hard disk recorder on the market and has everything you need and nothing you don't. I happen to much prefer the hd24 over a computer daw to record. I do use my computer to edit and so forth . So in my opinion, limited as it may be, I like the stability of recording on the hd24 but once captured, I like the flexibility and visual interface of a computer daw to do the 'dirty work'...the best of both worlds, I guess.

Toby Fairchild ---- Percussionist in VA???

It's me, It's me, I'ts Earnest T.

Hey Jeremy......oops, I outed ya. Whats happening. How are you and the Misses? I just received my fireport FREE fireport in the mail a week ago or so (Anyone who bought an hd24 in the month of October or November 2004 got free fireport via mail-in coupon)......so I've transferred both with a LAN cable through my router and with the firewire and there is no way I could go back to LAN. It's nice to know it's an alternative option in a pinch I guess but man....... It's good to know someone with your background and experience as I am sure to have a question or two in the future to pose to you. Good to hear from you. Let's keep in touch! -Toby