x
anonymous 31 January 2006

My first big job with a well known regional director came through the pipeline. ! I do a lot of smaller stuff for schools and churches, etc. but this one is big time.
I do have a regular gig at a cathedral here, but this one is my first one working with a big director in a recording capacity. I am normally on the other side of the baton as a soloist. (I am a classically trained basso)I have to say, classical recording is as rewarding as singing!Of course, specific recommendations are welcome. I have the following:

Schoeps CMC6, MK2S, MK4
AKG c426b
Gefell M930s
Gefell M300s
tlm170s

DAV BG1 pre(2), Millennia HV-3C, Mytek converters..I prefer to use as few mics as I can get away with. Minimalism is what I strive for. I try to accomplish all I can with mic placement and selection. I hate hearing overproduced classical pieces...

Mr. Bullard,

thank you for your recording samples and your nice message on my answering machine - I enjoyed them very much and I would be glad, if you could make a recording from my next concert. It is on Sunday, May, 7th 2006 in the Protestant Church of Heddesheim, and we will give "The Creation" of Joseph Haydn. The rehearsals are on Thursday, 4th, Friday, 5th and Saturdy 6th May. We have a choir of about 50 singers and an orchestra with 41 musicians. The church has a capacity of about 450 / 500 visitors, the acoustic is a little bit dry.Perhaps you can tell me, what does an audio-recording cost (costs for material, driving etc.), so I can find out what a double-CD from "The Creation" might cost. Your work sounds tremendous and I
look forward to working with you!

Warmest Regards,

FR :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Comments

Simmosonic Wed, 02/01/2006 - 07:03

BigRay wrote: Of course, specific reccomendations are welcome. SNIP! I hate hearing overproduced classical pieces...

If you've got the job on the strength of your other work, then I'd suggest you try to apply the same logic/equipment, but I don't know how relevant that is to this kind of job...

I am a minimalist, like you, and like to use as few mics as possible, but I am also a realist - if I can't hear something that I'm supposed to hear, I have to do something about it!

I have done a number of jobs similar to what you've described - live concerts of choir and orchestra. I'd recommend an approach based around a single stereo pair for the orchestra, and another stereo pair for the choir. If you have soloists that stand in a different position to the choir, you will probably need at least one spot mic for them (depending on how many sing at once). You may also need to spot harps and/or tympanis (makes a huge difference!), if they are used in the piece.

For the orchestra, I'd be considering either a Blumlein or ORTF pair. It's a live concert, so you want to minimise noise pickup from the audience. ORTF does a nice job of this, as will Blumlein if it is positioned above the strings, almost horizontal, so the the null at the bottom of the pair is aimed at the front rows of the audience.

For the choir, I'd be going for the ORTF. I'd want to use my sweeter sounding mics (i.e. less bright) on the orchestra to tame the strings and contrast the voices, and my more detailed/articulate mics on the choir - remember, the orchestra mics will pick up ambience and 'size' of the choir, so the choir pair need to focus on the articulation.

I am not very familiar with many of your mics, so I won't make any specific recommendations. BUT... you are fortunate that they are having numerous rehearsals prior to the concert. If the rehearsals are in the venue prior to the concert, with the same set-up (risers for the choir in place, etc.), then you're in luck, provided you are happy to do a bit of extra work. Use their performance rehearsals as your recording rehearsals, and aim to record them all. You will quickly work out what's going to work and what isn't that way, and you'll also get a good indication of recording levels (allow at least 6dB extra for the actual live performance, however). Then you've got the best chance of getting a great recording and a great learning experience!

And next time, you'll have this experience to build on and there won't be so many unknowns...

Also, I think it is important to remember that while excellence is the goal, the client will be happy provided the job is at least acceptable (er, that's 'acceptable' from a perfectionist sound engineer's point of view, of course). Remember that it's a live concert, and so they only get one chance to get it right, and so do you. Put your focus on getting it all with the right mics in the right positions, before worrying too much about the smaller purist 'art' details such as which mic preamp or AD converter or whatever. There's no point giving the client a recording that has excellent sound quality and blah blah blah if the music isn't properly represented or balanced. If you're really worried about preamps and converters, match your most articulate mics with your least articulate preamps, and vice versa. Or, to put it another way, your warmest mics with your coldest preamps, and vice versa. I think that's a good starting point...

Cucco Wed, 02/01/2006 - 07:54

Great advice from Greg. Don't sweat the small stuff.

In reality, good recordings have been made with far less and far less expensive equipment.

Given your microphones, you have plenty of options.

The 426 or an ortf pair of M930s will do well. Also, as Greg mentions, blumlein pair angled down a bit might work well (for full-body, warm sound, I would go towards a pair of Beyer M130s - the 426 will do too.)

For vocal soloists, I usually lean towards a Schoeps, but in the case of live, more rejection is necessary. I would go for the TLM170s. They are quite nice for soloists - not overly bright like its lesser expensive bretheren, the 103, and still quite accurate.

Chorus could easily be picked up with the 300s and the Schoeps MK4s. Again, card's to avoid much rear-lobe pickup.

Enjoy! I did the Creation a few years ago with a local choral group. Though the concert and the performance were not good, the piece was still fun to record!

J.

anonymous Wed, 02/01/2006 - 09:34

Cucco wrote:
Chorus could easily be picked up with the 300s and the Schoeps MK4s. Again, card's to avoid much rear-lobe pickup.

J.

Curious ... how would you go about setting an ORTF pair on the chorus if they are literally right up against the back row of the orchestra (well, with maybe a 6-8' gap)? Put the pole in the middle of the orchestra, get plenty of height and angle down into the singers? I don't think I'd get the rejection of players in the rear of the ensemble I'd need in that case.

I've used spaced CMC621 for choral spots before with good results (spaced omni mains). However, I have a gig coming up in May (Mozart C minor mass) where the venue is going to present this proximity problem. I really want to try the 21s as mains (wide NOS or similar) and put card spots (KM184) on chorus. Advice?

Thanks as always...

Mike

Cucco Wed, 02/01/2006 - 10:16

hughesmr wrote: [quote=Cucco]
Chorus could easily be picked up with the 300s and the Schoeps MK4s. Again, card's to avoid much rear-lobe pickup.

J.

Curious ... how would you go about setting an ORTF pair on the chorus if they are literally right up against the back row of the orchestra (well, with maybe a 6-8' gap)? Put the pole in the middle of the orchestra, get plenty of height and angle down into the singers? I don't think if I'd get the rejection of players in the rear of the ensemble I'd need in that case.

Sure.

Nothing wrong with that - as long as you make it perfectly clear to the conductor and performers (though, making it clear to the performers is the conductor's job) that you are doing this and as long as is doesn't get in the way! (Or knocked over - a pair of mics coming down 12 feet on a stereo bar won't fell good on a cellist's head - no matter how much they deserve it.)

For chorus alone or a place where you can get good seperation, the spaced 21s are great. For chorus behind orchestra - not so hot. They'll pick up a LOT of orchestra

If they're RIGHT on top of the orchestra, you may have to go MS.

8 feet is sufficient for distance in a decent ORTF setup, though you may need flanks to pull in the outer edges of the chorus.

J.

FifthCircle Wed, 02/01/2006 - 10:31

If you need to be up close to a chorus, position the mics over the chorus and "looking" down into the middle of the section.

I use omnis on chorus with orchestra and I can get up very close and still not get too much orchestra in the choir mics. Personally, I dislike directional mics with choirs as it is way to easy for the mics to highlight areas of the choir rather than get a unified choral sound.

--Ben

x

User login