BTW, how do you like the boot up speed and Window load speed with the SSD?
Pretty spunky system?!

djmukilteo, post: 385512 wrote: As long as you have the SSD boot drive on the Intel1 you'll be fine....you can put one of the WD on Intel2, your call, you won't see or notice any difference.
How do you have everything hooked up now?
My point was the Asus manual stated the Marvel was there for 6g/s "data drives" and there are two of them and that's what you have with those two WD's....so that's just what I would do...makes logical sense to me.

That is pretty much how i have it hooked up. The ssd is on the first intel 6g/s port. The vsti's sample libraries and other program samples will go on one wd on the other 6gb/s intel port, and the saved project files and general storage will go on one of the intel 3gb/s ports. I also have my optical drive on another intel 3gb/s port because i wasnt sure if that would matter much.

djmukilteo, post: 385512 wrote: I have no idea about the reliability question and I doubt you'll figure that out....the Intel could fail just as easily or something else on the board could fail before the Marvel and then what would you think....?? Unless you have some sort of specific test or proof of that....people can claim all kinds of those things....how do you know which specific chipset and driver is unreliable?
The only way you can determine the optimum hookup would be to do benchmark testing on your system and then change them around and re-run the tests....most of that is so subtle for what your doing it's all negligible....it's not like your building a supercomputer here...
Unless you can find someone who has the exact same system of components you have and has run the same benchmark tests...it's all relative anyway....you have a system that is your custom setup...it is what it is
For your purposes with what you have there you should never have any problems. If it works, it works..stability is far more important. Hyper tweaking and the overclocking game is really a waste of time and energy and typically ruins stability..

Im not going to be overclocking and if i ever do it will be subtle and only for a small amount of performance improvement. But if i ever do that ill make sure i research it thuroughly before attempting anything that will cause an unstable system.

djmukilteo, post: 385512 wrote: Once you get everything audio wise hooked up and stable go download the DPC checker and see how your system performs.

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.thesycon…"]DPC Latency Checker[/]="http://www.thesycon…"]DPC Latency Checker[/]

Added:
TRIM is a feature of SSD drives and that's another reason to leave the Intel2 port open for another SSD drive if you ever wanted to install one in the future.

By the time ssds come down in price for large amounts of storage i will probably build system with all ssd drives if that would be beneficial for a recording situations.

djmukilteo, post: 385514 wrote: BTW, how do you like the boot up speed and Window load speed with the SSD?
Pretty spunky system?!

Its leaps and bounds above what ive used before. I cant wait to get it all set up and really get into how much easier my work flow will be. The ssd is so fast and having separate drives for everything else is going to be amazing. My projects can be huge and probably not run out of power. Its great. I feel like i went from my old tascam 4 track to a pc with this setup!

You should have the audio drive on a 6g/s port because that is the primary drive for streaming your audio data when your recording .wav files. If your using a 3g port, your not fully utilizing the speed of the drive, in fact your cutting it in half!
Same thing happens when playing back those .wav files....transfer speed is the more important factor here.
The sample library stuff has less priority because it typically loads your sample files in one batch transfer and its done.
The audio drive when your recording is streaming data onto that audio drive as fast as it can!
I would try using the Intel2 WD as your audio drive and then try using the Marvel when you get ot that recording stage and see if it is glitch free...the sample drive can go on anything, t's not streaming or speed critical.
The optical isn't either probably 3g/s but if it's 6 it should also be on a 6g port too!
Of course the optical drive is only used periodically as is the sample drive....so those could be 3 or 6g but it's always nice to ultize what yoiu paid for....
Just as a FWIW...
Using both controllers helps reduce bottlenecks with improve drive handling and performance...
The Intel has to interrupt and manage traffic on the ports it's monitoring (2) 6g and (4) 3g to and from RAM.
The Marvel is independent of that and controlling (2) 6g ports has it's own traffic and RAM space available.
When your recording streaming audio you are also running your DAW and OS system applications from the SSD through the Intel controller and then you have a separate controller (Marvel) running your audio data.
This makes it faster for the CPU to execute and multi-task data transfers and doesn't have to wait for one controller to finish doing it's thing...so you should never see any reduction in either controller with no bottlenecks waiting for one to finish between the two.
And with the amount of RAM you have you that should never happen anyway.....just my two cents on that..you could certainly test that out for yourself just by changing which drive you use for audio and samples....but get all of them on 6g ports...
The fact is you could have samples and audio on one of those 1Tb drives and probably never see a space problem.

Sorry about not fully understanding but let me see if this would be right.

The ssd is fine where its at? OS, DAW software, all vsti's in the daw subfolder.

I should put both wds on the marvell 6gb/s ports
one for the recording projects? What else would you recomend going on that one?
2nd wd for samples, finished work, and general storage?

Ive only used one hd in my other system so everything was on one drive with no partitions so if you could just explain it to me as simple as possible id appreciate it. I know you have already but im just a little confused still. Thank you.

Also all drivers and updates should go in the OS drive i assume right?

OK...maybe you are confused with the whole sample library drive and the audio/projects drive (finished or not).

When you setup Sonar the audio drive will be one of your 1T drives where all of your tracks you record or playback will be streamed onto and off of. The project folder for those .wav files will be stored there along with a handful of smaller miscellaneous project related files. (screen images, cache files, backup or pool files etc etc) The large audio .wav files need to be on your fastest drive because they are "streaming" those multiple tracks in streams continuously as it's being recorded or whenever you play them back after they've been recorded.
This is why it's important to have a separate drive from your OS drive (SSD). That audio drive needs to be relatively free of any interruption when it's doing it's job. The sample drive or optical drive aren't even doing anything at that point.
The SSD runs the OS and the applications and the audio drive records the data.
Because the Intel controller chipset is fast you can put the SSD and the Audio drive on those two ports.
But you could also put the audio drive on the Marvel....it's possible that the throughput of that setup might be a little faster rather than putting all the strain on the Intel controller only....chances are you won't see a big difference, but it would be a good test.

The "sample drive" merely stores the audio files you copy there and just needs to be loaded whenever you load a VSTi and select an instrument patch...that doesn't require any streaming or dynamic data movement like the audio drive needs and it isn't constantly being used. You select a VSTi/instrument and it loads the library wave data in one operation and when its done you can start playing notes, process over. So that drive while it should utilize it's best speed 6g/s doesn't have the same transfer priority the audio drive does.
Any application needs to be installed and executed from the OS drive, anything related to the operation of the computer or operation of an application like drivers or VSTi .dll's etc should always be in the root C:drive.
A sample library drive is just a storage space to hold the wav data for the application and gets loaded when needed by the application. Use this drive for archiving stuff or misc stuff.
FWIW...SSD's aren't really that great for recording streaming audio yet...they tend to have read and write transfer rates that are not as good and reliable as platters and servo motors.
Hope that helps

That is where i think im getting confused. Im thinking of the samples from a vst as streaming, when, its actually just a preloaded sound that is being triggered. But when recording a live instrument it is trasfering the audio in real time and needs to be captured as fast as possible by using the faster ports. And when using sound libraries from vsts i should still use a fast port but its not as important as the project id be recording live.

so ssd drive c: OS, programs, DAW software, vst dlls in the vst sub folder of DAW software on intel sata III 6g/s port
drive d: Sonar project files and audio on Marvell or INTEL SATA III 6g/s
drive e: vsti sample libraries and other stored material on MARVELL SATA III 6g/s
DVD/cd burner could go on marvell also or should that be intel sata II? not sure about that. Is it really important since it wont be used other than reference mixes and final cut?

I think you got it now.
SSD Intel1, Win7OS, program applications, drivers, VSTi's anything related to a computer operation.
WD1 Intel2 Audio drive, project files...but it could just as easily go on Marvel1 or 2.
WD2 Marvel1 Sample library storage or anything else for archive material etc....but it could just as easily go on Intel2 or Marvel2....
Optical drive if it's a 6Gb/sec drive it could go Intel2 or Marvel1 or 2...if it's a 3G or less put it on Intel3, 4, 5 or 6.

Sample Libraries are just static wav files that get copied from the disks to a HDD.
Each key on a piano instrument can have several large wav files associated with it. So if you want to use a piano the instant you select that instrument from the VSTi dll application it looks for the wav file and goes to the HDD you've setup. It then loads those files and is ready for you to play it. An entire library of instruments can be 500Gb or more so one library could fill 1/2 your 1Tb drive. The speed you notice is the time it takes the HDD to copy those from the drive into RAM for use by the VSTi and ready to play....at approx. 6Gb/sec (top speed) 100Gb of data would take about 15 sec to load. But once those files are loaded it's done. And the reason for putting sample libraries on a HDD is because they load faster than from the optical disk (which some people do). They just point the VSTi to the DVD drive and library (if it's not compressed) and load them directly off the disk.
Native Instrument stuff copies sample libraries to a HDD space you select and then hope it doesn't lose the path link...LOL. I don't like NI stuff much anymore...
I think it's time for you to fire up that RayDAT and plug some stuff into those ADA and see how well it runs...
Have you done the DPC checker yet?

Not yet. I haven't installed any software other than the OS and the mobo drivers and the rme drivers. Would it be a good idea to run it now? or wait till everything is updated and installed?

What do you have left to install and update?
You should finish installing everything ready to go...Sonar your VSTi's etc.

What the DPC checker does is check the overall latency of Windows and checks for any interfering background system activity that could interfere with audio streaming when recording and playback.

right now it says current latency bouncing between 16 - 19 and absolute 47. Im not sure what that means or if that will change when all my other stuff is installed.

I havent had time to finish all the software and updates. My kids are having a slumber party so im stuck dealing with a house full of loud ass little kids. LOL! Ill get the rest done tomorrow and then ill check. Youve been a huge help. If i run into any other problems or just need advice would you mind if I shoot you a PM? Thanks again. I feel like im on the right path. I really want to get down to some music though so i have to finish this build by tomorrow. One more thing. Are there any other tools you would recomend to monitor my system performance?

Sure ....no problem.....
PM or post doesn't matter.
Chaos on a Friday night....LOL...I hear ya on making the music...a lot of this computer stuff sucks the life out of that!
I think if you have the computer hardware squared away and if it feels fast and stable then next step would be to do the standard audio tweaks for Windows like set background service, USB power management etc..I wouldn't get into the Windows services tweaks until you get Sonar installed RME and ADA's running, clocks, buffers all set and recording multiple test tracks with instruments and plugins successfully...see what it will do first...then tweak.

Right now if the DPC checker shows all green bars when running and the report bar says your system is good for audio recording...just make a note of the values and then run it again after everything else on the recording end is done. That will give you a reference of any change...you'll probably see something change and increase that number.

I have the noctua nh-d14 cpu cooler on my system and im using the first pcie slot on my motherboard. Ive got everything running good but im afraid that my raydat is too close to the cpu cooler. Its literally an inch away. I wonder if it will get too hot that close?

I changed the storage drive configurations and now after i boot windows there is a icon on the bottom right of the toolbar to eject the wds. I have both wds on the Marvell 6g/s ports.

offcenter2005, post: 385571 wrote: I have the noctua nh-d14 cpu cooler on my system and im using the first pcie slot on my motherboard. Ive got everything running good but im afraid that my raydat is too close to the cpu cooler. Its literally an inch away. I wonder if it will get too hot that close?

Just a thought but if you plan on getting a higher end dual graphics card more than likely you'll want to put that in slot 1 because they typically use the x16 slot and the RayDAT only needs an x1 slot (I believe) So the RayDAT could be moved to or better off in slot 2?
I don't think there's really anything that gets so hot on the RayDAT board itself that it needs cooling...no more so than anything else in the chassis.
I assume the case has chassis fans...and don't forget the whole cooling scheme is only optimal with the chassis case cover on and the correct air flow through the chassis is working accordingly. Something you should check anyway and make sure all the hot air is being exhausted properly and cool air is coming in. Feel the air coming out of the box and see how warm it gets. Check your CPU and motherboard temps after the whole thing is closed up and running for awhile.
The cooler the computer the better overall...because overheating will kill you system quicker than anything else!...the most common problem is dust buildup, so check and clean it every couple months or even more often than that if your in a dusty environment.

after leaving the computer on for around four hours yesterday the temp was reading 22 degrees Celsius for the cpu and mobo temp. I have 3 chassis fans and 2 on the cpu cooler. Also the case, other than the side panels, are all metal mesh with dust screens. It is super quiet. It is actually quieter than the laptop im typing on now which really surprised me. I think the airflow will be pretty good. The wiring is super clean. Ill post a pics maybe you can tell me if the placement of the soundcard is too close to the cpu cooler. Also slot 1 is x1 and slot 2 is x16. The x16would be for graphics cards right

Attached files

Looks great! Nice job and it looks like your getting good air flow and cooling!
That CPU cooler is MASSIVE! LOL
Like I said if you want to move it I think you could move the RayDAT to the 2 slot.

Thats what i think i want to do but for some reason on my mobo If i use the 2nd pcie 2.0 x1 slot i have to set the PCIe 2.0 x16_3 slot to x1 mode because by default it is on auto which disables the 2nd pcie 2.0 x1 slot. If I enable the 2nd pcie 2.0 x1 slot then it disables the USB 3.0 add ons that I ran to the front panel. This is confusing but its starting to make a lot more sense to me. It would be nice to not have to disable one thing to enable another. But i think it all has to do with irq sharing. The CPU cooler is a little overkill but i figured it is good to keep things nice and cool so i can really runthis shit out of it if i want to.

Say i wanted to test the read/write speed of my hdds between the marvell and intel ports is there a good way to do that?

The best way is to try the different slots and see. You can always change it back!
You may end up changing it anyway if you add some other graphic card in the future...so maybe keep that in mind and see how that would work out if you did put a card in...
This is the time to try different things like that (don't forget do one change at a time) while it's still open and easy to do....You also know how it works right now so any change that doesn't work out will be easier to spot.
You might find you prefer one over the other...most of the time there is a happy medium where speed and throughput are good enough and everything is stable or it isn't....stability is the key! razor edge is just asking for issues IMO.
I've never tested HDD speeds because they are plenty fast enough, but I found this online that looks like you can do it from the Device Manager. I might have to try it myself...
Yes cooler may be overkill but cooler is better.....

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://ttcshelbyvil…"]Test Your Hard Drive Speed With Windows 7′s Device Manager « TTC Shelbyville – Technical Blog[/]="http://ttcshelbyvil…"]Test Your Hard Drive Speed With Windows 7′s Device Manager « TTC Shelbyville – Technical Blog[/]

Run those tests and then swap them and test again.

Ok, I know that this is turning into a how to build your first computer thread but I need to ask a couple other questions. Ive been reading about updating the bios and its got me confused again. Should I update? on my motherboards download page there is bios, bios utilities, chipset..... What do I need to update?
Also what other components do I need to update? Drivers for my interface? The bios update just seems a little unnerving because I dont want to screw up. Thanks.

offcenter2005, post: 385596 wrote: Ok, I know that this is turning into a how to build your first computer thread but I need to ask a couple other questions. Ive been reading about updating the bios and its got me confused again. Should I update? on my motherboards download page there is bios, bios utilities, chipset..... What do I need to update?
Also what other components do I need to update? Drivers for my interface? The bios update just seems a little unnerving because I dont want to screw up. Thanks.

ASUS - Motherboards- ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3

If you go to the Asus website and look at the latest downloads, open the list and description of everything in there.
I always write down the download updates and the latest version numbers first along with the release dates.
Then I go into my Device Manager and find each component in the list, find the version number and date in the drvier properties tab and I write those down. That way I have a list I can go through and see what's new, old, the same etc. It also helps keep everything straight and acts like a checklist.
You can download all of them at the same time if you like and put them in a separate folder in your computer so you know exactly where they are located...that speeds things up.
If there are features or programs in that Asus list that your not using or have disabled like the audio or bluetooth etc. you can skip those if you want to.
Things like the BIOS, chipset drivers, SATA controller drivers, memory controllers, video graphics you should always be running the latest versions, it just ensures you won't have some weird failure or problem and then find out this was fixed in an update...99% of people out there that think it's not important, are the ones that have no idea what going on in their computer and what sorts of issues the factory has found and fixed....then they wonder why something weird starts happening on their computer with no clue....

I update them one at a time starting with the BIOS and then going down the list. The main reason to do online updates is because when you bought your mobo it might have been shipped out months ago or even a year ago. In the meantime they have fixed bugs for everything and those update solve issues that you wouldn't even know about.

The first thing you need to download is the BIOS Utility Installer as that is the program that will update the actual BIOS file for you. So get that first.
New motherboards are very easy and safe to update BIOS these days unlike in the old days) as they have built in backup and restore if something does go wrong, so really the only thing that can go wrong is for some crazy reason you lose power while it's doing the update. Just follow the instruction exactly....it's over and done pretty quick.
You can easily update everything in under a half hour....it's just part of the deal...if you make sure everything on your computer is fully updated with the latest software you will be a happy camper....and always make sure everything is for Win7 64bit...do not install any drivers that are 32bit.....
You should also go to the RME site (which I think you've already done)
I don't know if your ADA's have drivers or not...they don't connect to the computer so probably not.
Online updates are an on going thing so check every few months and see anything has been changes by looking at the dates.

Asus has an update utility for bios. It's safe enough and will save you the headache of trying to learn how to update via a boot file from cd or thumb drive.

Link removed

No worries, glad to help, not busy, so I guess you just got lucky getting someone to chat....Haha
The chances somebody else is out there building the same system you are...is pretty remote, they're all sort of custom really, so I doubt anyone else will notice or care....except maybe Jack.
I suppose some of my general hints and tips are valuable....LOL
I'm just waiting to hear some successful recording tracks, so I hope you get there and you post em!....
It's not just a job....it's an adventure!

Watchin the Canucks get whopped by Buffalo???...WTF!!

hueseph, post: 385600 wrote: Asus has an update utility for bios. It's safe enough and will save you the headache of trying to learn how to update via a boot file from cd or thumb drive.

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://support.asus…"]ASUSTeK Computer Inc. -Support- Drivers and Download[/]="http://support.asus…"]ASUSTeK Computer Inc. -Support- Drivers and Download[/]

Hey Huseph......see there are more people besides JackAttack and me on here...
So whats going wrong here with the Canucks tonight?....

djmukilteo, post: 385601 wrote: No worries, glad to help, not busy, so I guess you just got lucky getting someone to chat....Haha
The chances somebody else is out there building the same system you are...is pretty remote, they're all sort of custom really, so I doubt anyone else will notice or care....except maybe Jack.
I suppose some of my general hints and tips are valuable....LOL
I'm just waiting to hear some successful recording tracks, so I hope you get there and you post em!....
It's not just a job....it's an adventure!

I really appreciate all your help. Without the help ive gotten so far im sure id have screwed something up. Even with the risk of looking like an idiot, asking these questions will ensure that i have a great recording machine and therefor better quality recordings, and that is what i am mainly after. I did go to the RME site and saved the newest drivers on an external and updated from that on my new computer, that was easy enough. Im taking my time because i dont want to be plagued with problems that will stop me in the middle of a recording. I have a few recordings i did on my old hp. I think I really got the most out of what i had with that thing. Here are two tracks id really like to redo after this one is up and ready to go.

[="http://snd.sc/o6XGkf"]Saturday master by offcenter2005 on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free[/]="http://snd.sc/o6XGkf"]Saturday master by offcenter2005 on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free[/]

[[url=http://="http://snd.sc/mgUOed"]Cross the line by offcenter2005 on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free[/]="http://snd.sc/mgUOed"]Cross the line by offcenter2005 on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free[/]

Just a couple of songs that me and a buddy recorded a while back. Just fun stuff to play.

Nice to hear some real music....good job!

In the bios utilities drop down tab it says: Bupdater Utility V1.26 for flash BIOS under DOS. Is that what i should install first and then the rest starting with BIOS? I didnt install the AI suite from the original disc that came with the motherboard because i was told that i didnt really need the stuff on it and would just take up space. Is that something i should use or is that sound advice?

Yes, download and install the BIOS flash utility program and then download the actual BIOS file....which is a .bin file.
BIOS updates are run within DOS....so just follow the instructions from the utility and it will do everything for you.
The only thing you need to do is tell the utility where the BIOS.bin file is, so keep that in mind where you save the BIOS file. It's pretty bullet proof...
I think the Asus manual has screenshots and the instructions for the procedure...so read it first..

Ok, ive been reading about updating the bios on my motherboard. Im wondering if i should update everything else and run it with the version i have and see if it is stable before doing the bios update. Im just worried that if i do the update it will make my system unstable. I think it comes down to being worried about doing something wrong and messing something up. If it is really something i should do I will but ive never done it before and it makes me nervous. Ha!

You can do that if you like...it probably won't make any difference unless something specific was changed in the BIOS update that effects your other driver updates. Then if there is a problem then you will be confused as to what caused the problem....the BIOS not being up to date oneof the drivers???
Then your just back to updating the BIOS anyway...always best to make sure the BIOS is current and go from there...that way you know where you are and have the latest factory system.
These are all "bug fixes" that the factory has found since releasing the initial version, just like Windows updates.
The BIOS has a recovery feature just in case you screw up....and it takes 30 seconds to update it and your done!....

Im sure that most of the stuff im reading online is out of date and it seems like flashing your bios is extremely risky. I have read the manual and there are 4 or 5 ways to do it and it is confusing since i havent done it before. I also read that i should update the AI utility to the most recent version before anything. I didnt install the AI suite until today but i only installed the update utility not any of the other stuff like mem ok. If i update the AI suite should I completely uninstall the previous version and install the update from the asus site from scratch? I know that after i do this stuff once im going to think im an idiot for being so cautious and thorough but since ive never done this before its a little unnerving. I downloaded the Bupdater Utility V1.26 for flash BIOS under DOS and tried running it, it said incompatible with my version of windows and i know that it was the right file for my OS and mobo.

I understand your concern....
There is nothing wrong with installing the AI suite as those are just feature progams for things you might want to tweak on your mobo...they are mostly just small utility programs to be used if you want to.
The BIOS utiliy program is what you need to flash the BIOS and update that, so having the latest version of the utility program is the first thing to do.
Have you looked at the current BIOS version on the BIOS screen?
Is that older than whats on the website?
Updates are updates they need the original progam already installed before you can apply them.
If you uninstall those the updates won't work.
Yeah take a deep breath....if this is stressing you out, just forget about it and leave it...if you start having strange problems you can always go back and do this later....just move on and finish installing the rest of your recording setup.
Hope that helps

There has been 2 or 3 updates since my bios version so it would probably be a good idea to update. Im just going to take my time and read everything over again. I know its not that difficult im just over thinking it.

offcenter2005, post: 385639 wrote: There has been 2 or 3 updates since my bios version so it would probably be a good idea to update. Im just going to take my time and read everything over again. I know its not that difficult im just over thinking it.

I would say with absolute confidence and truth that your statement is correct....LOL
Whenever I do these, I tell everybody in the room to freeze, wait for all quiet and click OK....you can do a countdown too if you like...just kidding...

Oh and just to give you more confidence your BIOS has an "undo" button.

What is it with the asus mobo manual saying if you dont keep the cpu plastic cover you cant rma? That would suck because my wife threw that away the day I put my pc together!

Are you talking about the Intel CPU chip itself....or some plastic cover placed over the mobo CPU socket?
Either way if you have to return it for some reason sounds like they will not supply you an RMA (Return Maintenance Agreement) number for authorized return shipment to them.
The reason they do that is those components are highly sensitive to electrostatic discharge (ESD) and there's no way to assure the parts will get to them undamaged while in transit without the container.
The electrostatic bag should suffice for the board, but if you need to ship the CPU chip or board, the ESD bag and CPU container they came in can be pretty important. Walking around with a mobo or CPU chip in you hands is just asking for trouble!....that's why you need to use wrist straps and proper static grounding procedures whenever you touch ANY of those components...
If you do have to do that you might be able to find another container somewhere.
You could contact Intel or a dealer or computer shop and get one from them.
I've never had to return a mobo or CPU...