Any suggestions I would have would be purely subjective, Tony, and none of them are deal breakers. Very nice. What mic did you use for acoustic and for lead vocal?

DonnyThompson Thank you for listening, appreciate it!. I actually recorded the lead vocal and my Taylor 414 simultaneously. You might recall my post about discovering the M/S method of recording acoustic. Anyway, Rode NT2A on figure 8 top, then Audio Technica AT4033a on bottom. I then followed the usual steps to get a fuller sound.

The biggest thing I got out of this was that Izotope 8 new tonal plug-in that checks the overall balance is a HUGE boon to people like me with a less than stellar set of ears and a very normal bedroom really. Not to say that I didn’t use my ears too, but, having a visual cue that actually did the job, marvellous.

Makzimia, post: 453852, member: 48344 wrote: DonnyThompson Thank you for listening, appreciate it! The biggest thing I got out of this was that Izotope 8 new tonal plug-in that checks the overall balance is a HUGE boon to people like me with a less than stellar set of ears and a very normal bedroom really. Not to say that I didn’t use my ears too, but, having a visual cue that actually did the job, marvellous.

The only things I heard that I might have done - and again, this is purely subjective - would have been to bring the lead vocal more forward in the mix, and not much, just "scoodge", and I might have dipped some of the low mids out of the acoustic... but those things are not at all mission critical, this is just what I might have done, so don't go running to change anything about your mix. ;)
I'm not familiar with the Ozone family of processing, though there's no doubt that it's used by many pros. Can you either explain a little about how this particular Ozone processor works, and what it does, or shoot me a link to where I can read about myself?
Thanks! :)
-donny

Hi DonnyThompson, plug-in is part of Ozone 8 part way down this page should cover it.

https://www.izotope.com/en/products/master-and-deliver/ozone/features-and-comparison/tonal-balance-control.html

Thanks for posting the link, Tony. I'll research it on my own. :)

I figured best I not try and explain something that's been said better by the makers... I just love it anyway. First time I haven't been disapointed when I moved my songs to other places... and I really do appreciate your insight Donny.

No problem, it's all good! I totally get what you're saying. No explanation needed. Besides, I don't mind doing my own leg work when it comes to research. ;)

Hi Tony,

A great mix, but I have a few questions.

(1) Am I correct in thinking that you intend the R channel be a dB or so louder than the L? I know the L-R spacing of the instruments will affect balance between the two sides, but it feels a little R-heavy.

(2) I looked at the stereo track in a wave editor and saw that the R channel does indeed look more dense than the L. However, it also appears compressed from about 00:32 compared with the L, as though put through a limiter set to -6dBFS (see example picture below, L on the top). Did you actually use any compression on the guitar, for example?

(3) What's the "master channel stuff" you mentioned?

(4) The beat of the track has a very free feel to it, which is great in this era of exact metronomic songs, but there are some bars (particularly after 2:30) that are a about half a beat longer or shorter than the tempo of the song at that point, and I find that somewhat disconcerting. Could this be the result of editing, or is that how the song was performed?

I'm not trying to be critical, simply to understand what I'm hearing. The recording is lovely, as Donny said.

Boswell thanks for listening mate :). I recorded the guitar/vocal in more or less 3 takes. My mate Floyd and I wanted to see if I could get this song down, yep, it's got some minor timing issues, that bugged me a little, but, we got to the end, and were like, WOW, lovely and organic mostly... and decided to call it a day :). I used a dual track from the Rode and reversed phase on one copy, panned them hard left, right, per M/S then mixed them down in level against the straight level from the AT4033a.

There is some compression, guitar and lead vocal, as I said earlier are all the same for 3 tracks, the 2 because of Rode on figure 8 and the 1 main used with the 4033a. I'm honestly, not too sure why the song seems R heavy, the only right panned aspect is the key synth sound. I didn't edit ANY (cut, move etc) of the song anywhere actually, it's not my thing, hence why some songs I do are sloppy by new standards LOL. Ok, now, mastering stuff, basically, there is a Neve 88RS (for colour) literally just on the main bus, then Ozone 8 advanced for a little Dynamic EQ, final comp, spatial and a limiter, then the tonal plugin, which just checks the overall level, no additive. All the tracks go to a AUX bus before that for a nice reverb, various levels each track, and vocal backing gets a heavier dose of a Delay with a 20:1 compress on it via sidechain.

You know me Bos, not the tech guru of music around here :). Main thing I get out of this song, is, I hope, I finally made something sound the way I heard it :).

Tony

Boswell, post: 453864, member: 29034 wrote: Hi Tony,

A great mix, but I have a few questions.
(2) I looked at the stereo track in a wave editor and saw that the R channel does indeed look more dense than the L. However, it also appears compressed from about 00:32 compared with the L, as though put through a limiter set to -6dBFS (see example picture below, L on the top). Did you actually use any compression on the guitar, for example?

Yeah, I'm definitely seeing evidence of limiting here, as is indicated by the "flat top" transients on the screen shot that Bos posted. Good catch, Bos!

sorry for my late response, Tony. I'm so busy lately, I hardly have time to just sit and enjoy music.

Great track. The guitar sounds very nice but it may be a bit loud in relation to the vocals for me. In general I'm always wanting vocals up front so if you adjusted this I would be smiling.

Keep up the good work.

ps, i would reduce the high freq on the synth track a bit so it gives a softer feel to it.

again, keep up the beautiful work.

audiokid, post: 453878, member: 1 wrote: sorry for my late response, Tony. I'm so busy lately, I hardly have time to just sit and enjoy music.

Great track. The guitar sounds very nice but it may be a bit loud in relation to the vocals for me. In general I'm always wanting vocals up front so if you adjusted this I would be smiling.

Keep up the good work.

Hi Chris, fully understand :). Thank you for the taking the time to listen. I appreciate all the feedback I have gotten on this. I respect each of your experience, and I will be taking this all on board for our next recordings. This was a trial run to see if I had the sound right. Overall response from all that have heard it has been very positive.

Makzimia, post: 453881, member: 48344 wrote: . I appreciate all the feedback I have gotten on this. I respect each of your experience, and I will be taking this all on board for our next recordings. This was a trial run to see if I had the sound right. Overall response from all that have heard it has been very positive.

The comments you've received are from engineers who all have different little preferences, but the fact that each comment was suggesting such small changes is a testament to the quality of your work.
Keep doing what you're doing, pal ... Because you're doin' just fine. ;)
-d.

DonnyThompson *blush* I realised that, you have no idea how happy this project made me at last. I know I have seriously missed the boat in major ways in the past. I definitely feel the way I recorded with the 2 mics in M/S and the limited number of plugins I needed to use, plus the tonal balance and visual mixer etc all did it this time for me.

Best Tony

nice mix (y)

I listened on momentum phones . +1 with Chris , The synth keys took my attention away from the song in the
last quarter .
Getting picky here ... i wanted to hear some more room ambience on the acoustic guitar ,to help tie the background
vocal into the mix more .

Smashh Hi Ash,

Thanks for listening. I explained a few times about the recording of the guitar and vocal being the same (combined) on 3 tracks. It's what makes it sound great, but comes with restrictions such as not being able to individually effect guitar, or vocal. The backing vocals were placed in the same reverb as everything else, the backing vocals are just deliberately placed further back in the mix, producer/artist choice :). I am going to live with this mix, and I was very happy to get the sorts of feedback I have, compared to anything I've ever been game to ask about LOL.

Tony

Ok, I found a bug in a session of Red plugin causing the +6 right channel. So... without further ado. Here’s the fixed version with what I hope is some other stuff taken in. Timing issue still there of course :).

[MEDIA=audio]https://recording.o…

Attached files when you're around 2.mp3 (7.4 MB) 

Makzimia, post: 453900, member: 48344 wrote: I explained a few times about the recording of the guitar and vocal being the same (combined) on 3 tracks. It's what makes it sound great, but comes with restrictions such as not being able to individually effect guitar, or vocal. The backing vocals were placed in the same reverb as everything else, the backing vocals are just deliberately placed further back in the mix, producer/artist choice :). I am going to live with this mix, and I was very happy to get the sorts of feedback I have, compared to anything I've ever been game to ask about LOL.

I think you mentioned that the vocal and guitar were recorded effectively using M-S miking. I'm not sure whether you meant that you used M-S on each of guitar and vocal, or whether you used a pair of horizontal microphones twisted 90 degrees apart with the vocal and guitar in the nulls of each. If that's the case, then you could process and effect the vocal and guitar differently as separate mono tracks .

Makzimia, post: 454018, member: 48344 wrote: Ok, I found a bug in a session of Red plugin causing the +6 right channel. So... without further ado. Here’s the fixed version with what I hope is some other stuff taken in. Timing issue still there of course :).

Well done! That's completely cleared the limiting problem in the R channel.
It's sounding really good on my computer speakers, but I'll give it another listen when I get back to my studio.

Boswell thanks mate :). Floyd and I are much happier again with this mix. Here’s a picture of my mic setup. I went with separate compression on delay and reverb for backing vocals and synth this time too. Much better control.

Tony

Attached files