Oh yeah...

Rap vocalist smoked WAY too much pot, had MASSIVE insecurity complex...we'd do 3 verses straight through, he'd come in to listen...

"Nah, gotta do the third verse again."
"Don't like it. Let's punch it in."

...We do so, line by line...and he comes in to listen for FIVE or TEN SECONDS...

"Damn, man, I can hear the punches. It don't feel right. I gotta do the whole song over."

this goes on for 3 or 4 sessions...

He shows up one afternoon to try some more vocals, and by midnight the drugs have him bouncing off the walls. He asks me to call 911, but by the time the paramedics arrive he says he feels fine. We end up working for 18 hours straight...

The following weekend we do all the vocals over AGAIN...

After working on and off for FOUR MONTHS we have TWO SONGS done. Sort of...

Then we have a disagreement about money...For a moment it looks like a fight, but he outweighs me by 40 pounds. I consider throwing the ADAT tapes out in the road, but it's late, and there's no traffic. Finally I just ask him to leave and never come back...and when the phone rings two weeks later, I tell him to fuck off...

Um, yeah. Not to mention the "Mexican Gospel" sessions, or the Hendrix with a drum machine...

SC

what a waste...I hate rap.
I hate tracking lame vocalists.
I usually leave it to the assistant. :w:

hmmm ...

Take it for what it's worth, but if a situation seems scetchy at all ... or ven make it a standard practice ... get payment at each session .. IN CASH !! You might find this sifts out the bad eggs / non serious pretty quick, and saves you a lot of time :( :D

So far i am having resonable success by not booking the gig until I receive a 50% deposit. Once tracking starts, and we reach the original estimated amount (i.e. 100%) I re-stimate whats left, and ask for payment for hours used so far before we continue.

Depending on the client I will generally ask for updated payment when ever a $500 balance is due.

Overall though I have had no problem with vocalists in any particular genre, I have had great rap artists and great opera singers. I track according to personality and vibe. If the singer is new to the studio I take multiple takes and try to fix one or 2 things. If the singer is really confident and knows what they want (like a metal screamer) we might record a line at a time in the chorus just so they can get a fresh breath for each one. If it is a competent blues band, I almost always use the scratch vocal done thorugh an SM58 in the control room because it fits what they just played best (blues guys are the ultimate one take wonders).

It ALL depends on the singer and the situation. If I'm producing, I ,tend to preffer complete run throughs ( 4 typically), then I do a quick comp. After that maybe either pick-ups, or another shot against the comp to beat it. If they can sing, it's usually in the firstcuople of takes.

If they can't sing, and you're having to work the phrasing and melody with them- I'm a singer and I get into this if I'm producing...I'll even venture a "part" Idea if the artist & producer {now I'm only"engineering"} are having a tough time fiding a part that the "artist" can do. This I know is maybe unique to my situation....I only mention it as a bit of info intpo MY process- line by line. Sometimes auto-tunig and nudginf a line or phrase here and there if they're at there limit and you want to move it along. Auto tune is very overused...but it is a great tool at the right time if used right.

Also. the right mic. Lot's of times, sticking an inexperianced singer out in the room in front of a big condenser with headphones isn't always the way to go. First off, picth is percieved as sharper the louder you're monitoring. Listen to some cans, really loud, then take them off your head...you should notice the picth of the track drop. That's why people with loud cans typically sing flat. So for these people, let them sing in the comtrol room in front of the monitors, it'll be way more comfortable, the communication will be better, and if you get a better performed in pitch vocal, you'll be way ahead of the game.

...just a few thoughts....
:w:

It ALL depends on the singer and the situation. If I'm producing, I ,tend to preffer complete run throughs ( 4 typically), then I do a quick comp. After that maybe either pick-ups, or another shot against the comp to beat it. If they can sing, it's usually in the firstcuople of takes.

If they can't sing, and you're having to work the phrasing and melody with them- I'm a singer and I get into this if I'm producing...I'll even venture a "part" Idea if the artist & producer {now I'm only"engineering"} are having a tough time fiding a part that the "artist" can do. This I know is maybe unique to my situation....I only mention it as a bit of info intpo MY process- line by line. Sometimes auto-tunig and nudginf a line or phrase here and there if they're at there limit and you want to move it along. Auto tune is very overused...but it is a great tool at the right time if used right.

Also. the right mic. Lot's of times, sticking an inexperianced singer out in the room in front of a big condenser with headphones isn't always the way to go. First off, picth is percieved as sharper the louder you're monitoring. Listen to some cans, really loud, then take them off your head...you should notice the picth of the track drop. That's why people with loud cans typically sing flat. So for these people, let them sing in the comtrol room in front of the monitors, it'll be way more comfortable, the communication will be better, and if you get a better performed in pitch vocal, you'll be way ahead of the game.

...just a few thoughts....
:w:

i prefer working verse-at-a-time and then chorus-at-a-time, then continuing on with 2nd verse, etc. Sometimes it ends up being line by line.

By doing it that way, I find it puts more attention on building the song with dynamics, intensity, etc. After-the-fact vocal comping is a complete waste of time or purpose in my opinion, but I guess everyone has different styles.

Now keep in mind that I'm not recording Whitney Houston, etc. and if I was, I'd probably be more prone to do the comping thing because they're be a lot of high quality stuff to choose from.

I try to have the vocalist go all the way through the song. If the take isn't good, I record over it. After a few takes we usually have a good take. Then we punch in the "problems." I rarely do comps, I usually fix small parts of a good take. ;)

as a performer, i find that after three takes, my excitement level drops way down, but there's usually enough of the good stuff to comp in those takes (same goes for all the musicians i've ever tracked)

(gross generalisation to follow)
first take has the best energy
second take is crap, but may have inspired moments
third take is the most solid (if least vibrant)

if it's not working after three tries, i'll come back later, rather than flog an equine corpse

btw, welcome to the new moderators (it takes three of you to replace one julian!?!)

ps recorderman, do you get much out of the fourth take?(i'm always wondering if i'm not just lazy to stop at three)

Originally posted by max:

ps recorderman, do you get much out of the fourth take?(i'm always wondering if i'm not just lazy to stop at three)[/QB]

....sometimes and/or it's the track (or what ever the last number's one is) that proves we've gone past it.

Originally posted by spp:
i prefer working verse-at-a-time and then chorus-at-a-time, then continuing on with 2nd verse, etc. Sometimes it ends up being line by line.

Yeah...I forgot...I do this one too. The point is, maybe, that having a few ways to do it is great....there are many differrent types of singers out there, and one size does not fit all.

Let's keep the tips comin'.