i don't see any difference. not even sure what is behind the foam but i think i would try just glueing a piece of foam to some cardboard and putting that up behind the mic first.

i add none of this stuff is needed in a room that is correctly designed. if your doing vocals in your c/r you might need to look at working on he acoustics in the whole room. i mean you're recording, listening and making decisions in that environment.

i'm recording in my bedroom with alot of timber furnishings.. and i cant acoustically treat it as i dont want my bedroom to be filled with auralex.

thus i need a reflection shield that can almost do wat a treated room does..

shanetsh, post: 395294 wrote: i'm recording in my bedroom with alot of timber furnishings.. and i cant acoustically treat it as i dont want my bedroom to be filled with auralex.

thus i need a reflection shield that can almost do wat a treated room does..

well i don't think that's possible. do try a piece of acoustic foam glued to some cardboard first. i would bet there won't be much if any difference between that and one of those high priced solutions.

Kurt Foster, post: 395297 wrote: well i don't think that's possible. do try a piece of acoustic foam glued to some cardboard first. i would bet there won't be much if any difference between that and one of those high priced solutions.

the thing is.. here is Malaysia, foams like Auralex costs 100 USD for a 2' by 1' so its not exactly cheap..

since that's the case, i might as well get those 'high priced solutions' rite?

i am asking about the difference between these two products, not wat alternate methods might be better.. as i have already considered those and they are not cheap where i'm from..

ok then. a "reflection filter" will not do what good room treatments will do. it will look cool but imo that's about it.

i hang out here to try to help people with the best solution i can think of, not to promote products (especially silly ones like these).

personally i don't see either of those things doing much for the acoustics of a bad room beyond what a simple piece of foam glued to cardboard would do other than look cool.

you still have half the mic (the active / working side i might add) exposed to the acoustics of the room. maybe someone else (one of the product salespeople who hang here) can be of more assistance. good luck.

its awesome that u hang out and help noobs like me..

i'm planning to use one of the reflection filters to put behind the mic and then hang a heavy blanket behind me to shield the other half of the mic facing me from the acoustics of the room

that's y i'm asking for the opinions of ppl here who might have tried these products out..

Acoustic treatment shouldn't be that expensive. Check out this site: [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.prosound…"]Acoustic Foam | Studio Foam | Sound Foam | Bass Traps[/]="http://www.prosound…"]Acoustic Foam | Studio Foam | Sound Foam | Bass Traps[/] For the price of one of those reflection filters you can have 48 sq ft of acoustical foam. The generally ship these vaccuum packed so that they are smaller in size. I don't know how much shipping will be to where you are. I can't imagine it will be extremely cheap. However, there are companies in the far east that manufacture this stuff and I'm pretty sure it would be much cheaper to buy direct. If all else fails you can make your own acoustic treatment which you can make as temporary as you need it to be. A bail of rock wool, some 1" x 4" wood, some cheap fabric and some elbo grease can get you a long way to your quest for acoustic treatment.

There is no such thing as a portable sound booth that is not $2500 and will take up a quarter of your room. Isolation is near impossible to get without a sizeable investment.

a $5 quilted moving blanket will be way more bang for your buck than a reflecxion filter. Musicans friend was selling aurelex in 32sqf boxes for 60 bucks. but now it's a hundred ten. get one box, mount it to a piece of pegboard, w/ a couple zip ties and mic stands you have an instant dead area. still far cheaper, and more effective than the type of filter your looking into.
The stuff on huesephs link looks similar in price, and performance. on the cheap i'd get some quilted moving blankets, otherwise, just get some foam. i opted to use both foam,blankets and rockwool panels diy stuff for in my bedroom at the time, and the look didn't bother me, especially when my recordings started to sound way better.

i'd way rather opt for a 3 dollar windscreen on the mic, than a 200 dollar gimmick.

hey guys.. i just got the reflection filter in a local store at a pretty decent price..

i got the SE Reflexion Filter Pro as it looks the most different in terms of the materials used (it does not use foam)

also i picked up a metal pop filter..

for the benefit of all the people who were also wondering about these products, i being a consumer with no other agenda or whatsoever, shall make an in-depth review and comparison video of these products

and the difference between them and some homemade-ghetto alternatives..

oh, so now all of a sudden, you will have a piece of foam you can glue to some pegboard or cardboard? and do you all of a sudden also have a couple of moving blankets? just curious.

i am becoming suspicious as to what this thread is really about. at $300 it's pricey.

lol.. the foam thing i've gotta see if i can get from my bro's car boot.. he used it when he mod-ed his car with some speakers a while ago.. if i cant then i'll just compare it to maybe pillows behind the mic like some ppl said?

for the moving blankets since my ceiling is really high, bout 3.5m tall, i need to use of those clothes hanger with wheels to hang the blanket so we'll see..

and dude before u get all sceptical, please do check my channel.. i'm a beginner to home recording.. my videos are only up for a few months at most.. what kind of agenda can i have in the first place?

at $300 it is pricey but i live in a house with my parents and i really cant do any treatment to the room.. any permanent treatment anyways..

send the $300 piece back where it came from and tack a blanket to the back wall of a clothes closet filled with clothes. spread the clothes out to either side and place your mic inside the closet facing out.

that will work way better than any $300 "reflection filter".

mate, i am about as sceptical as you are.. but have you actually tested the SE product that i am referring to?
or is it just scepticism speaking here?

if you have tested it and yes it in fact shows no improvement over a clothes closet that i will return this..

not being stubborn but i could not find any proper review of this particular product and really am curious about what it does..

there's a sucker born every minute

mate, i am about as sceptical as you are.. but have you actually tested the SE product that i am referring to?
or is it just scepticism speaking here?

if you have tested it and yes it in fact shows no improvement over a clothes closet that i will return this..

not being stubborn but i could not find any proper review of this particular product and really am curious about what it does..

me thinks you may be a shill.

a lot of times the reason you can't find a review of a product is no one had anything good to say about it. editors and even those who write reviews are reticent to publish negative reviews. so not being able to find reviews on a product usually is a huge red flag.

this is why i wonder how genuine you are with all this?

i wonder how hard you looked for reviews? i did a Google search and found a very good article on the overall effectiveness of these kinds of things in SOS, a highly respected publication / on line audio magazine in less than 1 minute.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug11/articles/qanda-0811-2.htm

i am not "skeptical". lol i just don't think these kind of things work. if they did why in the world would people go through all the pain and suffering to build good rooms? just put up a $300 "wonder screen filter thingie device" and go for it!

40 + years of doing this .. i don't need to try it out to know it's a gimmick. i have tried just about everything you could think of to control room reflections. i wish i had a nickel for all the times i have been suspiciously asked if i have tried the latest huckster gizmo that has come down the pike. i don't need to eat crap to know it tastes like crap.

with a basic understanding of how mics work and their characteristics you will understand that the only way for something like this to have any effect at all (and still minimal) would be if you were using a mic with an omni directional or figure 8 pattern. i would almost bet the ranch that's not the case.

cardioid mics reject sounds from the rear of the capsule.

how could an absorber in back of the mic make any difference? these things may be of some use in a situation where the recordist is employing a multi pattern LDC in omni (to reduce proximity effects) or a ribbon mic with figure 8 pattern but again, i assume that's not so in your case. so what you have is a waste of 300 bucks. just stick the mic in the closet and get on with recording.

Attached files

first of all, i googled shill and no i'm absolutely not a shill!

and thanks for the explanation there.. really appreciate it..

another question would be =
quote from the article u posted:
As a vocal mic is so sensitive in the direction of the singer, it will pick up reflections from any walls or surfaces behind and to the sides of the singer, so whether you decide to use a reflection filter or not, acoustic treatment in these areas is a priority. A Reflexion Filter or similar device is designed to absorb some of the sound that would hit the rear of the mic, so if you’re thinking of buying one, it makes sense to use it in conjunction with acoustic treatment to the rear of the performer, rather than simply using one or the other.

does it mean that the reflection filter will work better in conjunction with some acoustic treatment to the rear of the performer aka me?

shanetsh, post: 395540 wrote: Does it mean that the reflection filter will work better in conjunction with some acoustic treatment to the rear of the performer aka me?

That's exactly what it means. If your room is live, the mic is going to pick that up. Especially from the active side of the mic. Namely the side facing you. So all the reflections from the walls behind you are going to hit it. The sound of the room doesn't have to be a bad thing. If there is a lot of slapback in your room or flutter echo, that will get into your recording. The closet idea is not such a bad one. A good one even.

my 2 cents is that it's cheap. blankets are fire starters and cheap. they are practical too. who wants to be the 'guy who reallly' has to drag an appropriate baffle, like max made, i would cuz max mad made an awesome bunch of baffles, that make sense in a build like his!!!? i want to be that dragg-on dude of a super nice baffle. cuz it's rad.

for practical "random location' stuff, you can make an absorptive area for a whole band, for little money. the only reason i tout that is from practical trials, and it's what the absurd highly money making recordings used too. don't light them on fire. don't permanently hang them on the wall.

room sound is fine on vox, make sure the reinfections are just contributing well to the vox, and absorb or eq the rest out.

i will just not be a proponent of refelx-ion thing. get a windscreen, and i'm not even wicked experienced. there is little to no MASS built into the comercial filter. and it's a curved shape, which reflects sound right into the back of mic.

omni is overlooked to the point where it is big time on vox. it neutralizes rooms dimensions, and proximity efx.

shanetsh, post: 395540 wrote:

does it mean that the reflection filter will work better in conjunction with some acoustic treatment to the rear of the performer aka me?

It means that had you listened to what Kurt said earlier about the closet, you would have found he was correct and you would be producing better vocal recordings with ZERO investment.

Your room has hard reflective areas as you have already stated, so you have to get those out of the mic path.

These wiz bang filters that are being marketed usually hit the intended target. That target is the uninformed thinking that because someone made this device that it MUST do some awesum stuff.

It is simply marketing.

A room does not have to have permanent treatments attached to be effective. You hang treatments just like a picture on the wall. Once done you can take it down if need be.

The issue is education. What you want is not answers to simple questions your search is for education, how do sound waves and rays travel around a room, what affects them, alters the path, removes the sound, etc.

I recommend purchasing author A. Everest book "Master Handbook of Acoustics". You will learn more about recording and room properties by osmosis then from marketing dribble.

shanetsh, post: 395540 wrote: first of all, i googled shill and no i'm absolutely not a shill!

and thanks for the explanation there.. really appreciate it..

another question would be =
quote from the article u posted:
As a vocal mic is so sensitive in the direction of the singer, it will pick up reflections from any walls or surfaces behind and to the sides of the singer, so whether you decide to use a reflection filter or not, acoustic treatment in these areas is a priority. A Reflexion Filter or similar device is designed to absorb some of the sound that would hit the rear of the mic, so if you’re thinking of buying one, it makes sense to use it in conjunction with acoustic treatment to the rear of the performer, rather than simply using one or the other.

does it mean that the reflection filter will work better in conjunction with some acoustic treatment to the rear of the performer aka me?

you just won't give up will you?
i suppose you can read anything into anything if you try hard enough. lol presidential election politics shows us that (non partisan statement). what it says to me is you need treatments on the walls. imo once you put up wall treatments the reflection filter device thingie gizmo product becomes redundant.

wall treatments are what you say you are trying to avoid. so the only solution i can think of is either put up moving blankets (which btw should be fire retardant) or find a place in the room (LIKE A CLOSET) that you can use like a vocal booth. if a blanket catching on fire is a concern then use a piece of acoustical foam or better a slab of Owens Corning 701, 703, 705 on the back wall of the closet instead of a moving blanket. the clothes closet trick is one of the oldest in the book.

I recommend purchasing author A. Everest book "Master Handbook of Acoustics". You will learn more about recording and room properties by osmosis then from marketing dribble.

YES! you might have an easer time finding it if you look for F. Alton Everest. I actually have a copy of this book on my coffee table at this moment. i have had this book for fifteen or twenty years and i keep it available all the time. an invaluable resource of knowledge to all things studio. take the filter gizmo thing back and take the money and buy this book. a much better investment than any "reflection filter". ( how do you "filter" a reflection? )

Kurt Foster, post: 395553 wrote: you just won't give up will you?
i suppose you can read anything into anything if you try hard enough. lol presidential election politics shows us that (non partisan statement). what it says to me is you need treatments on the walls. imo once you put up wall treatments the reflection filter device thingie gizmo product becomes redundant.

wall treatments are what you say you are trying to avoid. so the only solution i can think of is either put up moving blankets (which btw should be fire retardant) or find a place in the room (LIKE A CLOSET) that you can use like a vocal booth. if a blanket catching on fire is a concern then use a piece of acoustical foam or better a slab of Owens Corning 701, 703, 705 on the back wall of the closet instead of a moving blanket. the clothes closet trick is one of the oldest in the book.

YES! you might have an easer time finding it if you look for F. Alton Everest. I actually have a copy of this book on my coffee table at this moment. i have had this book for fifteen or twenty years and i keep it available all the time. an invaluable resource of knowledge to all things studio. take the filter gizmo thing back and take the money and buy this book. a much better investment than any "reflection filter". ( how do you "filter" a reflection? )

hm... i will look into the book.. once again, thank u for sharing ur knowledge with me..
unfortunately i dont have a closet, i have a wardrobe with minimal depth.. still looking for a place in my room that's suitable for the solution u suggested..

how about me recording with my back facing a fabric cladded couch?

also, is having a high ceiling good? i'm assuming it is seeing that it'll take a bigger distance for the sound to be reflected back to my mic..

shanetsh, post: 395579 wrote: is having a high ceiling good? i'm assuming it is seeing that it'll take a bigger distance for the sound to be reflected back to my mic..

It also means that the resulting reflection will be more noticeable. A high ceiling is nice if you intend to incorporate that sound in your recording. If you walk into a professional studio, you will notice baffles on the ceiling and hanging from the ceiling. Bass will "Roll" around the room. If you can afford $300 for the sE Reflexion filter, you can afford $150 and some elbow grease to make yourself 4 gobos. Gobos that will be more functional than any reflection device. For $150 you could probably fully treat your room. These can be as temporary as you need. Rock wool is about $30 per 6 panel bale. Wood is cheap and fabric is too.

How to Build Your Own Acoustic Panels (DIY) | AcousticsFREQ.com

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tonymacx86.com%2Fattachments% 2Fgolden-builds%2F33991d1349638710-recording-studio-rig-i7-2700k-ga-z68x-ud7-radeon-hd6870-diy-bass-traps-made-easy.pdf&ei=N0mVUPC-GYa6iwLFl4HIAw&usg=AFQjCNGM7sP_Jge6kZ6CnWlZBMSXqv448Q&sig2=rrKbBQ2hYIRbhhQdeVSoFQ

some simple plywood screens built to look like dressing screens on one side and with a layer of rock wool covered with fabric. or 701 /703/705 on the other side would work

or just find some inexpensive dressing screens and drape moving blankets over them or mic stands with booms extended and moving blankets or ...... ?

about the high ceiling ... you can build a "tent" running cloths line from one wall to the other a 6 or 7 feet high and drape moving blankets over that ...... there are plenty of cheap temporary solutions. try different things .. the idea is to absorb the ugly sounding frequencies to keep them from reaching the mic. what ever works.

just use your imagination.

Not to clip your wings Kurt, I recognize who you are in the arena of acoustics, but pretty much anything with master handbook of acoustics will get the education started :)

[[url=http://[/URL]="https://www.google…"]A. Everest book "Master Handbook of Acoustics"[/]="https://www.google…"]A. Everest book "Master Handbook of Acoustics"[/]

:)

Space, post: 395596 wrote: Not to clip your wings Kurt, I recognize who you are in the arena of acoustics, but pretty much anything with master handbook of acoustics will get the education started :)

[="https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=1222&bih=735&noj=1&sclient=psy-ab&q=A.+Everest+book+%22Master+Handbook+of+Acoustics%22&oq=A.+Everest+book+%22Master+Handbook+of+Acoustics%22&gs_l=serp.12...176.8928.0.10215.3.3.0.0.0.0.140.244.2j1.3.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.iy2XP3S2ifA"]A. Everest book "Master Handbook of Acoustics"[/]="https://www.google…"]A. Everest book "Master Handbook of Acoustics"[/]

:)

awww shucks. i ain't nobody.

especially in the field of acoustics. Rod's the guy to talk to about that. [="http://recording.or…"]
http://recording.or…] []] [="http://www.amazon.c…"]
he has a great book on building studios. [/]

yourself, Eric Desart and John Sayers are go to guys too imo.

i'm just an old studio rat that's met a lot of really smart people and lucky enough to have stopped drinking in time to be able to remember some of the really good advice they gave me.

the tent thing came from an old publication TEAC put out in the 70's called "The White Papers". i looked for it but i can't find it on the interweb thing. there's a thing about hanging strips of carpet from the ceiling in it .... lol i wish i could find a pdf of it.

tapestries on the walls, book cases with the books pulled out so there's a 2 or 3 inch gap behind them better to stager the depth of the books like a diffuser.
there's all kinds of things you can do ... it just takes a little imagination. but for lands sake don't waste money on a "reflection filter'. jmo

put up a mic and monitor it with headphones. move sh*t around, hang crap up, drape blankets close the curtains, do anything you can to soften the surfaces in the room. when the mic starts sounding good in the phones, your ready to record. easy as pie.

this is guerrilla recording.

Alton's book is a wonderful source. if one were to take [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.amazon.c…"]F. Alton Everest[/]="http://www.amazon.c…"]F. Alton Everest[/] at face value is expensive and requires real estate. the op's posting questions on how to make a better recording in their bedroom. it's a great work with lots of info but .... the op's room isn't ever going to be "legal".

how bout get really close to a mic w/ a tight pickup pattern, and use a high pass? if the op is 'looking for place in room" why not try a bunch of places? if your blaming the room on a bad close-mic'ed vocal, your not singing well. no recording area is perfect anyway, so why not start w/ finding the best way to to make it sound the best in a compromised room. and again, it's not always a fail to record vox in a reverberant room.

i've used the shoes i was wearing to help aim a mic at a cab. In addition to the excellent books suggested, i humbly suggest 'using your portable studio' by peter Mclan, the recording/ engineers hand book(s) by bobby owinsky.

you knowing how to place a mic and why, will make an expensive product like the reflection (convex back into the mic) filter ridiculous. i got my copy of eversts book from the public library. rod gervias's practical acoutsic construction guidance has helped make me money, and a good reputation locally. there are no comprises in these books sciences, they work the way they say they do. which is refreshing. experimentation cost just your time.

to kinda give my last point against the type of filter, it doesnt adress much more than an area the size of you 'cupping both hands' behind the mic. so for 300, you have no ceiling treatment, no real side wall, no floor.

couch cushoins and blakets and tacks will be just about free, and more effective, practically. it's not like we're talking highly specific acoustics here. crap, i just did a 12 hour session earlier tonight, ya know what got the bass drum boom outa the room? a fleece blanket that i used to sleep in 10 years ago. fancy is for pictures and people who fall for that. Practicality always takes over.

Just compare the difference of a studios 'clean cut' promo pics, and then see the pics w/ all the wires around, and the rented rack, and all the other real world stuff.

i'm not trying to undermine acoustic design or knowledge, just supporting it on any level. if a sweatshirt in a kick works, so be it.

until you can relate the vocals probs to the mic to the room, what are we trying to fix? it's in that order. once ya know the probs, then start the solution. otherwise just use the time tested improtu type treatments and make a song. i hope this stuff saves you 300 wasted bucks. i very honestly do.

Kurt Foster, post: 395618 wrote:
Alton's book is a wonderful source. if one were to take [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.amazon.c…"]F. Alton Everest[/]="http://www.amazon.c…"]F. Alton Everest[/] at face value the way Everest says is expensive and requires real estate. the op's posting questions on how to make a better recording in their bedroom. it's a great work with lots of info but .... the op's room isn't ever going to be "legal".

Exactly.

In order to stay alive in any aspect of this business you have to have that "want to", the burn in the belly.

To think (as many I have seen do) that a piece of hardware is going to modify the complete region of physics as it applies to their respective rooms, to me, is being near sighted and displays no "want to".

It usually takes quite a few years before a picker becomes good on the chosen instrument but that falls by the way side when it comes to the voodoo that is acoustics. And let's not even get into the multiple trades people that will be involved in even a home project well isolated room.

HVAC, carpenters, design specs, electricians and ALL of the things that are required basics as it applies to an acoustic environment.

That doesn't stop folks from attempting to learn ALL the trades and do ALL the work when most do not even own a hammer :)

Cynical on my part...but is supported empirically from my observations over the years.

space; thumb your preaching to the choir.

self defeating?

i wonder if placing a boundary behind a cardioid mic could affect the polar pattern?
might make it more omni ?

"how bout get really close to a mic w/ a tight pickup pattern, and use a high pass?"

extreme close miking comes at the cost of proximity effect. hi pass is a solution but in it self comes at a cost of loss of lower frequencies.

hyper cardioid mics (tight pickup pattern) have even worse issues with proximity effect than a cardioid.

everything comes with a cost

some rooms (even small ones) sound really good when you put a mic in them , others don't . i listened to the ops video and i noticed he already has a piece of foam behind the mic.lol

for what he's doing it already sounds fine. :biggrin: maybe the op wants one of those refx-ion filter thingiee device products for the look in a video? will it make his recordings sound better? um, i don't think so.

if a person isn't willing to dedicate permanent treatments then the next best thing (i never said ideal) is to mitigate the issues in a way that fits their aesthetic. someone said, "make it dead and add [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.bricasti…"]reverb[/]="http://www.bricasti…"]reverb[/] when you mix".