audix

You can't have too many microphones. Just keep saving. If you need to rent a mic to fill a gap short term that would be better. That said, no one needs three kick drum mic's. Keep the Shure and save for an original AKG D12 which is completely different than the 122. The Audix could be used on floor toms as well so I guess if you had to pick one then I'd pick the 122 to sell.

I would get rid of them all and get an EV RE-20. I actually just purchased one a few months ago for 2 purposes; micing kick drum live or in the studio, and recording audio theater. It works GREAT for both. Also, from my experience running live sound, my favorite of the "kick drum mics" - meaning mics made for the purpose of micing a kick and nothing else - I prefer the EV ND 868. I prefer the RE20 now over that, and it so much more than a kick drum mic.

I have the Beta 52 and the Audix D6 ( and the Senheiser for the Kick, I don't remember its name ). I use always the Audix outside the kick and the beta 91 in the kick ( so two mics for the kick ).
Paul

TheJackAttack, post: 357151 wrote: You can't have too many microphones. Just keep saving. If you need to rent a mic to fill a gap short term that would be better. That said, no one needs three kick drum mic's. Keep the Shure and save for an original AKG D12 which is completely different than the 122. The Audix could be used on floor toms as well so I guess if you had to pick one then I'd pick the 122 to sell.

I'm sorry for the typo, I meant the AKG d112, not 122 (LOL), so can we agree with others that I really don't need all three mics as far a kick drum mic?, how hard is it to purchase a AKG d12?, I imagine it would have to be ebay or something.

Unless a mic doesn't get used in 3-5 years, NEVER get rid of one. Keep the affliction of GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) alive and well by ADDING to your collection.

I've used all of the mic's mentioned at one time or another... and used none of them; based upon the merits of each mic's sonic character.

I've used just about every mic in the locker for kick/drums... to wit; I do my best to use the mic and mic placement to capture the sound that best serves the song/musical style I'm tracking.

MadMax, post: 357207 wrote: Unless a mic doesn't get used in 3-5 years, NEVER get rid of one. Keep the affliction of GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) alive and well by ADDING to your collection.

ROFL! Once you get GAS it can never be removed!

I have a D112 and can't seem to make it work. I keep hearing from people who like it for kick, floor tom, guitar cab. Somehow I can always find something I like better. If you are asking, your situation can't be like that. And another thing on Max's side - it's not like you're getting a huge amount for any of these.

GAS is the word is the word is the word, Its gotta groove.....etc (think "Grease")

D112's sound better on loud bass cabinets. I've never gotten a 'great' sound from a Beta 52 and while I like the instant-kick-drum-to-go part of the D6 its not my favorite either.

I'm with the others on this question. You cant have too many mics. Ever.

I can only assume that you arent going to replace one of these with another kick drum mic so I wont recommend anything for that purpose. Not knowing what you intend to buy and just how the sale of one of these is going to help you in that budget, I can only say......keep em all so you dont regret it later.

BUT. These are quite plentiful and finding another one in the future should you miss whatever you part with, should be no problem and a patient person can always find a bargain.

Try finding my favorite, the ATM25. The unfortunate thing for those who have all these mics you list is, if you DO happen across an ATM25 you will never use any of those other mics again. At least on a kick drum of any style or tuning. YMMV.

While I'm waiting for cup-o-joe #2 to kick in, I'll drop a coupla' random thoughts...

If you're having problems with getting a kick sound you like, you might wanna try a coupla' things...

Beta52 in the drum, up to the batter head, with a D6 about 1/2 way in the hole.

Another variation is to put the D112 in the drum, up to the batter head with the mic in the REVERSE position, with a D6 or Beta52 about 1/2 way in the hole.

The last coupla' sessions I've been working with a 421 in the kick.

I've had good sounds from an R84 with windscreen about a foot out in front of the kick... Peluso 2247 in about the same position in a Figure 8 - lobed toward the kick... 421 in the hole and a D12e on the batter side (between the kick and floor tom)... D12e, outside; just off center of the kick about 4" away, with a 421 in the hole... and a lot of other combinations including a 4033 in a tunnel with a D6 1/2 way in the hole.

The main thing to do is take your time and try to match your mic/pattern and placement to the song/style... which needs to work with your room as well.

Moving mic's can be as little as 1/4" at a time. So, be meticulous when you gotta be dead on, and/or the budget/situation calls for it.

For all the more any of them will fetch at auction, I would also be inclined to hold on to all of them and delay the next purchase - unless you flat out dislike one of those mics.

This thread just proves that mic aficionados like talking about mics as much as buying mics :)

This is one of those rare cases where the OP is asking, which should I keep? Instead of, which should I buy? Seems like they should be able to determine which they like least better than anyone else.

If circumstances dictate one of them has to go - I'll give the standard (but highly accurate) RO answer "it depends."

It would depend on what kind of music I did and what kind of kick drum sound I preferred. Death Metal, Country, Alt Rock, Big Band Jazz. Am I looking for more boom, or more beater? I own the 52 and 112 [among many of the other alternatives mentioned] And I have used other folks' D6 enough to know I should add one of those to my arsenal too. All of them are very well suited for the jobs they were asked to do.

Some things to consider:
Some people (like me) don't like buying used mics without a chance to test them - even dynamics.
Just because the voice-coil is in tact doesn't mean the diaphragm is in good shape. (which will drastically alter the tone)
The way a dynamic mic has been cared for will have a profound effect on it's sound over time.
A friend bought a D112 from a local music store that was blowing out gear from their rental dept. (which should raise 2 red-flags)
After the hell it had been through, it sounded like the $39 he paid for it.
After fighting the rental 112 mic for two weeks I brought mine from home and it was night and day difference.
All these kick mics are widely used on-stage, so that opens the door for a lot of cumulative damage.
Despite all that, I'd consider an ATM25 from eBay, but I'm convinced Dave's constant praise of it is artificially driving up demand/price!

Oh heck, nobody listens to me...........I shoulda bought four of em when they were being blown out a few years back as a discontinued item. Why they're discontinued I have NO idea but nothing they were replaced with has quite got the sound they have. As for buying those used.....much like a 57 they seem to be indestructable.

Davedog, post: 357231 wrote: GAS is the word is the word is the word, Its gotta groove.....etc (think "Grease")

D112's sound better on loud bass cabinets. I've never gotten a 'great' sound from a Beta 52 and while I like the instant-kick-drum-to-go part of the D6 its not my favorite either.

I'm with the others on this question. You cant have too many mics. Ever.

I can only assume that you arent going to replace one of these with another kick drum mic so I wont recommend anything for that purpose. Not knowing what you intend to buy and just how the sale of one of these is going to help you in that budget, I can only say......keep em all so you dont regret it later.

BUT. These are quite plentiful and finding another one in the future should you miss whatever you part with, should be no problem and a patient person can always find a bargain.

Try finding my favorite, the ATM25. The unfortunate thing for those who have all these mics you list is, if you DO happen across an ATM25 you will never use any of those other mics again. At least on a kick drum of any style or tuning. YMMV.

I lust for other gear, but I have to admit you all make sense, couldn't fetch much anyways for the mic and might as well keep it.

max says:
The main thing to do is take your time and try to match your mic/pattern and placement to the song/style... which needs to work with your room as well.

Moving mic's can be as little as 1/4" at a time. So, be meticulous when you gotta be dead on, and/or the budget/situation calls for it.

This is so right, playing around and listen back is the key. Try xperiment with condensers as well and playing with the phase can give some stunning results.

And dont forget the ambience....

I forgot to mention my 'other' most favorite kick drum mic and certainly one that will cure almost anything missing from any of the mics mentioned so far..........sub-kick. I have one with a 6.5" speaker suspended in an 8" latin tom (steel shell, shallow, timbale sorta thingy) ....In conjunction with the aforementioned ATM25 (which doesnt really NEED the help) I get size and depth of a 26" kick with a 20" tuned nice and tight. Clik and boom.....with air movement and speaker excursion ......aint this what its supposed to do?

Here is something else to ponder. Think about this. When the sound of the bass drum hits the microphone diaphragm and your microphone is halfway in the front hole of the head. Which way is that microphone diaphragm going when they kick gets kicked? It is pushing the diaphragm in on the microphone. Given correct studio wiring and phasing which direction should your woofers be going on playback?? Now wait and think about all of the other microphones on the drums. This is where the phase button on the console and proper polarity on your speakers is so critical. I want that sound punching out from the woofer & not sucking in. This generally requires a phase inversion for the kick drum. And I'm one of the few people I know who does this. You can certainly make a cool kick drum sound with its " suck/pump" sound which a lot of guys that I know do. I do sometimes depending on the musical genre. But generally I'm phase inverted when mixing in kick drum which really gives you a harder pounding sound than that in phase " suck/pump" sound that is still quite popular. And while I have most popular kick drum microphones with the exception of the D 6 (which I'm still considering in a later purchase) my favorite is the Sennheiser MD 421 for everything but the overheads and even that sometimes. But most of the times it's just a bunch of SM57's and that's just fine. On the snare, on the bass drum, everywhere. So it's really not what you've got but where you stick it.

Pick it & Stick it
Mx. Remy Ann David

RemyRAD, post: 357364 wrote: Pick it & Stick it

Right On Remy!

I forgot to mention that little phase button thingy... it's become such a 2nd nature decision for me, I just do it and when it's right, I just go on about my bidness.

I'll flip phase on a mic in a heartbeat and listen, and that's not just true with kick, either... snare, snare top, rack toms, OH's, bass, plank, swirly box, room, mando, pno... it doesn't matter what the "rule" is... other than the rule that you make it sound good.... right?

MadMax, post: 357267 wrote: While I'm waiting for cup-o-joe #2 to kick in, I'll drop a coupla' random thoughts...

If you're having problems with getting a kick sound you like, you might wanna try a coupla' things...

Beta52 in the drum, up to the batter head, with a D6 about 1/2 way in the hole.

Another variation is to put the D112 in the drum, up to the batter head with the mic in the REVERSE position, with a D6 or Beta52 about 1/2 way in the hole.

The last coupla' sessions I've been working with a 421 in the kick.

I've had good sounds from an R84 with windscreen about a foot out in front of the kick... Peluso 2247 in about the same position in a Figure 8 - lobed toward the kick... 421 in the hole and a D12e on the batter side (between the kick and floor tom)... D12e, outside; just off center of the kick about 4" away, with a 421 in the hole... and a lot of other combinations including a 4033 in a tunnel with a D6 1/2 way in the hole.

The main thing to do is take your time and try to match your mic/pattern and placement to the song/style... which needs to work with your room as well.

Moving mic's can be as little as 1/4" at a time. So, be meticulous when you gotta be dead on, and/or the budget/situation calls for it.

10-4, I see this will be a handy approach on all the mics and will give them each a try. Now the d112 in the reverse position, will that capture more of the air?

No, it will catch more of the audience. So you really want to aim a cardioid microphone in the wrong direction? When you sit on the toilet, do you face the tank? Actually, I had a gal pal that used to do just that. Her reasoning was that the flush lever was more accessible that way. Of course it'll give you a whole new outlook on wiping.

20 inch bass drums can sound bigger than 26 inch bass drums on recordings
Mx. Remy Ann David

Remy... HA! you ain't right in the haid, girl... then again, are ANY of us?!?!? (y)

The real purpose of the D112 getting turned backwards is to capture the sound of the drum, within the drum. It seems that it's a "trick" reserved for really small cocktail sized kick drums like the Sonor Jungle and Yamaha Hip Gig kits and really large kick's with small, front air holes... 24" and larger.

I also found it's been "best", when used for a loose batter and tight resonant head which some drummers like for that 80's flappy "bap" sound, where you get a predominance of the sound off the resonant head.

As far as positioning mic's inside the kick, you really gotta just listen and position until you get what you want/serve the song.

I've used the same mic in all kinds of positions... all the way from 1" off the batter head to 6" outside the drum - in front of the reso head. I've positioned anywhere from aimed at the side of the shell to perpendicular to the batter head, and every angle in between.

About the only position I've never recorded is dead center and pointing straight at the beater. I couldn't get a sound worth nuttin' as the phase cancellation of the air column compression inside the drum - between the two heads, just didn't sound worth a $&!#.

Well, not every drummer puts a hole in the front bass drum head. For instance, Max Weinberg. He usually has a Beyer M 88 dynamic cardioid on the front head with no hole. I recorded him once, post Springsteen, pre-Conan at the Stone Pony in Asbury Park New Jersey, Christmas 1992, I think. And of course trying to do rock 'n roll with a jazz drum kit is a bit of a challenge. But he's so good. I don't have a M 88 so I used the Sennheiser 421. Yup, I've tried just about everything you've indicated. Your phase cancellation dilemma when positioned straight at the beater may have been simply corrected by inverting the phase. Or it could have just been a tuning issue? After all, it's supposed to have a low resonant frequency and I don't think cancellation should have been an issue? What kind of microphone? I've gotten good results this way with the 421's. And how do you get a microphone into a bass drum that has both heads with no holes? Do I interpret that incorrectly? I know folks who have actually accomplished that by installing a microphone and running the cord out the little air hole, without the XLR connector attached until installed. Personally, I've never tried to do that. If the heads are unmolested, the microphone stays outside. And of course, you can double mic the bass drum as you would a snare drum. You certainly have to have a good and quiet petal while the same kind of phase inversions would be necessary. And I frequently utilize some dynamics processing & gating. So, DBX 165A's or, 1176's & Allison Research KEPEX I's. Have you ever tried Crown PZM's on bass drum? I frequently use that on the floor, in front of the front head with great results. Doesn't matter if there is a hole or not and because of its hemispherical pattern, it does a great job of picking up a lot of the other drums ambience quite nicely as well if you're not using a gate. And yes, I'll invert the phase on that as well. I find I need less equalization with the PZM's. We're not talking " Boundary" mics here which I don't use. I don't even have any interest in using those. They are too smooth and lack that high-end hype. Screw that. I think that sums it up? And you know that D 112 is probably my least favorite microphone I own. I've never liked that microphone even though I have one. I'd rather use the Electro-Voice RE 20 but my favorite is the Sennheiser 421 hands down. I'd like to have a half dozen more of those. Nothing the sale of a few Neve modules couldn't help but I'm procrastinating again. I'm good at that. Wait just a minute.

Like you, I've mic'd just about every combination of drums you can think of... and each drum requires different thinking and mic selection.

421's are indeed pretty much the Swiss Army knife of drum mic's. They sound good on just about any percussive instrument, no matter how it's tuned or configured.

The few times where I used the D112 in the reverse position, I was referring to were kick drums with a "smallish" hole in the front head, that are 16"-18" in diameter and large 24"-26" kick drums with small holes in the front head... that the drummers tune the batter head really loose, with a tight resonant head. Again, this is really rare situation, and it was the only mic that I've had any success doing this with. (I should also note that this was before I had a mic selection that included 421's)

Putting a mic dead center of a kick drum head, squared 90 degrees to the beater, never has given me as good of a sound as moving the mic a bit off center or pointing the mic even a few degrees off axis. (Phase inverted or not) However, that's MY experience and anyone else might get lucky and find just the opposite.

I'm assuming that the 421 is set to 'M' rather than 'S'.......or is it 'V'??? I cant remember. I have also used a 421 on various parts of a drum kit. I sorta liked it on kick....I preferred the 409.....My least favorite kick drum mic is the D112. My most favorite of all time is the D12.....once again, a discontinued design that was never bettered. Drums with both heads on, like the D12.

Remy, you should really consider the cheap-ass Jap ATM25 if you like the 421 so much. It has the same type of tonal structure.....ie:more full-ranged without that frikkin scoop most kick drum mics have, it wears like a 57, and its so much easier to place as well as having a mount that doesnt bend under high use and heavy stress. Just my $1.53.

When drummers 'hear' their kick, they have no idea how its working out in front of it. So, choosing an oversized kick....ie:24"+, they are really getting the feedback or slapback from the initial impact of the beater strike, and really only getting a feeling of it filling a small area behind the drum. Side resonance of the shell is also a factor in the 'feeling' that the BIG drum is really filling up the sub-hole in the sound. A smaller drum really 'cuts' better and since the tension can be loosened considerably more since its a small area of head, the note can actually go LOWER without loss of projection. For micing, this is all important to get that big forward sound.
I prefer well mannered and well tuned small kick drums every time.

The big ones look awesome though.

I tracked a really schweet late 1940's, 26" Gretsch, closed heads, with a Rock-a-billy band...

I used a Peluso 2247, Beyer M101 and Royer SF-12 (K, Sn, OH's)

O M G...

That kick is just amazing in the track.

Just for sheist and happy happy, Max, how often does the really big kick make yer job easier?

And how often do you hear a really good one?

Not a neg on them....Hurk has a 24X20 for live....massive cannon thingy....and its a Gretsch.....and its a good studio kick...the 20" Tama is just kick'n my ass right now with how good it sounds..... ;-]

How often do I hear good sounding kick's???

Now that I'm open... EVERY time I set up one of MY kits!!

Actually, I've only had two other kits in the building that weren't mine. One was that Gretsch, the other was an Ayotte. They both sounded killa' for their genre they were tracked for.

My 1972 24" Vistalite w/EMAD batter and Hyd II reso head w/5" breather is THE best sounding kick I've EVER heard... ANYWHERE... period.

It sounds like pure thunder to thump in the rump from hell.

Running a close 2nd is my 16" Sonor Jungle Kit's kick... Quite the sweet double barreled canon.

3rd choice is the 20" Geribaldi Recording Custom, followed by the Sonor HiLite 20" and then the 20" Tour Custom bringing up the rear.

On a scale of 1-10;
20" Tour Custom - 8.0
20" HiLite - 9.0
20" Recording Custom - 9.5
16" Jungle Kit - 10.0
24" Vistalite - 12.5

The 26" Gretsch would be somewhere around a 10.0 and the 20" Ayotte would tip the scale somewhere about a 9.0

So much of what a great kick drum is, is the head selection and tuning for the genre and the room. In other words, I really wouldn't set up the Vistalite kit for a straight ahead jazz or blues gig, but you better believe it's the go to for almost anything else that the kit needs that serious punch in the chest sound, where you need to have it restart your heart with more gas in the ass than a defibrillator.

Someday soon, I'm gonna set up the Vistalite as the right kick, with the Jungle as the left kick, with the toms from the HiLite's, Jungle Kit and Recording Customs. It's gonna be one FUGLYASS kit, but it should stomp pretty darn much anything I've ever tracked before.

MadMax, post: 357496 wrote: How often do I hear good sounding kick's???

Now that I'm open... EVERY time I set up one of MY kits!!

Actually, I've only had two other kits in the building that weren't mine. One was that Gretsch, the other was an Ayotte. They both sounded killa' for their genre they were tracked for.

My 1972 24" Vistalite w/EMAD batter and Hyd II reso head w/5" breather is THE best sounding kick I've EVER heard... ANYWHERE... period.

It sounds like pure thunder to thump in the rump from hell.

Running a close 2nd is my 16" Sonor Jungle Kit's kick... Quite the sweet double barreled canon.

3rd choice is the 20" Geribaldi Recording Custom, followed by the Sonor HiLite 20" and then the 20" Tour Custom bringing up the rear.

On a scale of 1-10;
20" Tour Custom - 8.0
20" HiLite - 9.0
20" Recording Custom - 9.5
16" Jungle Kit - 10.0
24" Vistalite - 12.5

The 26" Gretsch would be somewhere around a 10.0 and the 20" Ayotte would tip the scale somewhere about a 9.0

So much of what a great kick drum is, is the head selection and tuning for the genre and the room. In other words, I really wouldn't set up the Vistalite kit for a straight ahead jazz or blues gig, but you better believe it's the go to for almost anything else that the kit needs that serious punch in the chest sound, where you need to have it restart your heart with more gas in the ass than a defibrillator.

Someday soon, I'm gonna set up the Vistalite as the right kick, with the Jungle as the left kick, with the toms from the HiLite's, Jungle Kit and Recording Customs. It's gonna be one FUGLYASS kit, but it should stomp pretty darn much anything I've ever tracked before.

Man I love it at this forum, I'm learning so much, I feel almost like driftwood, and just flowing and getting saturated with info. Thank you all. I just started getting into recording in 2008 and after many years of playing bars with my bass I felt it time to do something else in the music world. If you all have time to take a gander at my very first attempt at recording and perhaps critique as well would be great. Me on bass & Taurus pedals, buddy Gary who hasn't sat behind a kit in 8 years, so the playing is rough and sloppy, but then again we haven't jammed together in over 20 years when we were teenagers. It's a cover we used to love to play back in the day, RUSH, called La Villa Strangiato, I tried to emulate the 70s vibe in the mix.
[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.myspace…"]Google[/]="http://www.myspace…"]Google[/]

I am fond of the D112 slap and punch, and the smoothness of the ATM25. As well as the RE-20 warmth. Never tried the audix mics, and the shure beta 52 is not my top choice for kick.

I dunno... the beta 52 sounds like a bouncing basketball that's been dipped in poo. It ain't right for every kick, that's for sure. If you have a kick that's dead... as in felt beater, 10 year old heads, 4 pillows and 3 pair of old sweatsox jammed in there... then yeah, you almost stand to pull some life out of it.... and the Beta52's about the only thing that can pull it off.

D12 is pretty much a cleaner version of the D112. Not just better, but different. The D112 seems to almost have too much air when compared to the D12. But rather than it being HF, it seems to be more akin to proximity.

I'm still waitin' to get a pair of RE20's... Another combination that's been used with great success is the D12/Beta91 combination. I just haven't scrounged the cash for a pair of 91's yet either.... grrrrrrr....