I usually post a lot of signs that say "HIT THE WHITE THINGS HARD AND THE SHINY THINGS SOFT" to control a drummer. You may be thinking that that will probably make him play harder on the toms, but most often drummers will play softer on the toms because they are actually thinking about their playing.

Give him thinner sticks. :wink:

Your drummer is never ment to play softer :D
Get new mics that can handle the pressure!!

my peronal opinion

What kind of microphones are you using on drums? If you have an actual " drum microphone package" and they are cheap condenser microphones, try a handful of Shure SM57s. Then use that little switch on your console that says "pad", it has nothing to do with a musical interlude. It will however, prevent your microphone preamplifiers from overloading. Using that pad switch, you may also need to increase the game trim on your microphone preamplifiers. This will improve the headroom characteristics of your microphone preamplifiers. Problem solved.

If you are using SM57s and have done all of the above, get a handful of Sennheiser MD421s, they don't overload and forget about the condenser microphones. You'll be glad you did.

THWACK!!!
Ms. Remy Ann David

softer drumming??? jeeeeez... i dream of John Henry Bonham, wish there would be more maniacs with that kind of energy and soul... as RemyRad stated improve your mic-ing technique... and let them beat the hell out of it!!!

it's music...

Personally, this is just another reason why it's so cool to track to tape. If you're getting distortion on the preamp end then the pad suggestion is cool. If you're getting distortion at the A/D converters the pad suggestion will still work but having a destination that actually sounds good when it starts to clip is the best. Condensors would definitely be a problem unless you're using them as overheads.

Of course, he could just get a quieter drum kit.

"Rocking Sound"=Loud Drummer.

It may be more of a problem if he or she is an uneven player at loud volumes. In this situation encouraging careful yet solid playing is a good starting point as Brian suggests, and of course heuseph's suggestion of tracking drums to tape with the peaks in the red (as I always personally do for loud stuff) will help a lot. Compression would be a last resort if you had no other recourse, although I do think it compromises the natural sound of a kit unfavourably when tracking and cannot be undone.

If your drummer is an even player then follow Remy's advice and get some rugged mics capable of handling high SPL's and attenuate those signals!

I find it easier to record a hard (even!) hitter. Consider yourself lucky that you have a loud as hell drummer, it's a handy thing to have in a rock'n'roll band. It's pretty difficult to make a soft drummer sound like Bonzo!

Good luck...

BrianAltenhofel wrote: I usually post a lot of signs that say "HIT THE WHITE THINGS HARD AND THE SHINY THINGS SOFT" to control a drummer. You may be thinking that that will probably make him play harder on the toms, but most often drummers will play softer on the toms because they are actually thinking about their playing.

Good Idea!

axel wrote: softer drumming??? jeeeeez... i dream of John Henry Bonham, wish there would be more maniacs with that kind of energy and soul... as RemyRad stated improve your mic-ing technique... and let them beat the hell out of it!!!

it's music...

yeah but he like to be louder than any other instrument playing, not allowing a blend of the rest of the music

micro wrote:

yeah but he like to be louder than any other instrument playing, not allowing a blend of the rest of the music

oh, fair enough that is another level of problem, but i don't think that particular this problem can be fixed with a recording, it's more a "social" "energy level" sort of thing not being able to "play within a band as a whole"

but nevermind, if psychology, that means getting him to play with the band rather than against the band doesn't help... follow the good tips given to you.

best of luck.

axel wrote: axel wrote:

oh, fair enough that is another level of problem, but i don't think that particular this problem can be fixed with a recording, it's more a "social" "energy level" sort of thing not being able to "play within a band as a whole"

but nevermind, if psychology, that means getting him to play with the band rather than against the band doesn't help... follow the good tips given to you.

best of luck.

yeah thanks for the tips!everybody it helps us get to where we need to be musically speaking.

pay him a good teacher :P

fewer mics

As far as recording goes, you may want to use simply a kick mic and 2 overheads. Or, if you have a nice room, use a spaced pair that's a few feet away. Of course this depends on the style you're recording. And if you're tracking everything at the same time, this would be an issue.

Hope that helps.

I'm pretty sure I work with the hardest hitting/loudest drummer in the business. To quote what Dave Grohl (known for hard hitting himself) had to say about this guy, "Holy crap you hit hard!" The keys are:

A. being a good drummer, knowing how to hit your drums

B. knowing how to tune your drums

C. knowing how to mic drums

D. engaging pad's on consoles across the nation

I've seen this guy put sticks through heads and cymbals, his foot through his kick pedal (usually bust a few on tour). He started working with a company called Rocketshells to make custom carbon fiber drums so we don't crack shells (even when their singer jumps on his kick).

In fact, if you want to see how hard he hits...

Not trying to promoting the band here, but they played on G4tv and the video should still be on the G4 site. The band is The Bangkok Five. Sound was pretty simple, 421's on toms, KSM27's overhead, KSM 109 on snare & hat, and I think an Evil D112 on kick. Ran it into a an O2R to mix, and then into either a Neve or an Amek (can't remember) for production.

Cheers,
-Ryan-

If you want the drummer to play softer, crank the hell out of his drums in his headphones.

I don't think that would help JWL , he is already brain-dead! Like me!

Dreaming of drumming
Ms. Remy Ann David

Drums with microphones!!! God forbid!! take away the mics and replace their sticks with brushes and ask them to play "over the hills and far-away".
And because they are not musicians they will naturally ask "how does that one go" and you can reply- "its not a song".

In my 88 date show, our drummer was a top man - but he had a dep in for a few shows and the volume difference was immense. However - the drummer is just 'right' - and would resist any attempt to make him change his playing technique and frankly, I don;t blame him. The kit is tuned to his way of playing. Tonally the dep was dull and boring and lacking energy. Our drummer is also a Doctor of Music, which is pretty impressive - we call him Doctor Drum. If they're too loud for the gig, put them behind perspex.

paulears, post: 447727, member: 47782 wrote: If they're too loud for the gig, put them behind perspex

Indeed that is a great method for some times... but unfortunately, or fortunately for that matter, I've played more gigs than not where putting a drummer in a plastic box would be the most horrid scenario imaginable, including, impossible more times than not simply because the venue would never have stages that big. Good drummers are able to adjust their volumes to some degree. If not, then they aren't right for that particular group.

I switch from hickory to maple sticks if I need to play really quiet. Getting a drummer to play quiet is very difficult unless they want to.

One thing that can help them is to judge your volume by stick bounce height.. Often we play with ear protection and it's hard to know how loud things are..
So much of playing in time is muscle memory,.. A drummer that can play quiet has to build that muscle memory. It can't be just requested. It's not as easy as turning down an amp.

Try leaving your amp/guitar pot/mic/ P.A. volume at full and see how well you can play/sing quietly without adjusting anything. That's what life for a drummer is like.

"Drummer that plays to loud"

It's "too" loud, not "to" loud. Sigh. Yeah, I know, grammar police, yada yada yada... and it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

But I think that as educated professionals, we might consider using proper spelling - at least occasionally. ;)
Language/translation issues, and intentional slang for the purpose of having posts that offer more of a "conversational vibe" are exceptions, I think.

Anyway, disregard this as needed.
We now return to our regularly scheduled broadcasting. ;)

Frango, post: 447682, member: 50393 wrote: And because they are not musicians they will naturally ask "how does that one go" and you can reply- "its not a song".

o_O

audiokid, post: 447729, member: 1 wrote: Good drummers are able to adjust their volumes to some degree. If not, then they aren't right for that particular group.

That's the truth !
If band members would stop the ego war and work for the common benefit we wouldn't even talk about this.
I've played with small ensemble and big bands. It would have been futil to play loud when the flute in front of you has no mic. I made my priority to hear everyone on stage all the time. If I don't hear the clarinet, it meens I'm playing to loud and must ajust. Dawm, not all shows are drum solos !!! And guess what, I could have a rock gig the same day and still play loud enough to rock without making the guitar player reaching for his volume knob every song...

Out of the too loud kit, the unmixed drummer is also a pain to work with live and in studio. I had drummers playing too loud on the hihat, others not loud enough on the bassdrum.. What a challenge